Forum - View topicMost Clever/Intelligent Character Tourney Post-Mortem
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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1. Is there anything about the way the tournament is run that you think needs to be tweaked for next time? (The format for the next tournament will remain essentially the same unless I get good recommendations on possible changes.)
The format I think is pretty much solid. People know how it works and it's rather easy to work with. No real confusion on who is matched up against who or how to vote. 2. Did the discussions encourage you to try out any titles you have not previously watched? Monster. Had to do research on it, without downloading fansubs, beyond what I knew to vote properly at the end. Got me interested in finding out even more.
This coming from the winner of the last tournament. If you remember ManOfRust did quite the same as Marie did last time. He held it actually damn near the entire tournament until the very last round where you and I squeaked past him. Just goes to show you never know who will win. |
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zawa113
Posts: 7358 |
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Just got back from my horrible 8am class followed directly by three hour lab routine on Tuesdays (yeah, there was no other way to get around that)
1. Mostly as said earlier with the nomination format, it should need some sort of quick explainer from the get-go, even for characters we're sure that 80% of the people here most likely know (like Light) 2. Quite a few, Legend of the Galactic Heroes (although Crunchyroll went legit and took it down, so I only got to see the first season), Revolutionary Girl Utena (still not done yet), and Last Exile were three shows that I watched during the tourney as a result of the tourney. However, as a result of being in the middle of Utena, I refused to watch any show clips to avoid spoilers. 3. I'm sure I said this at some point in the tourney, but Ash Lynx from Banana Fish, which is a manga only title. I can see not wanting to put too many manga only characters in a tourney on the anime boards, but it's not entirely unrelated to anime, it's not like putting someone from a live action American TV show or a JRPG in the mix. Rin was another character who suffered from doing way too much cool stuff in the manga version of Please Save My Earth due to whoever's dumb decision to only make 6 episodes of it. I don't think it's entirely fair to leave out manga characters, especially those who more than qualify, when manga and anime are so interrelated to each other. 4. My final 4? I'm sure to rethink and want to change it, but for now I'll have to say my Final 4 would have been: Taichi Keaton, Johan Libert, Reinhard VonLohengramm, and Yang Wenli. If manga characters were allowed, Ash Lynx would probably take Yang Wenli's spot. And many thanks to Key, D_A, ccdx and anyone else I may have mind blanked on for their work with the tourney! |
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BloodPact725
Posts: 12 Location: CSUF |
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The format was fine the way it was, I did not find anything wrong with the format that would make me want to say that we need to change it for the next tournament.
I think that as the tournament was progressing, the discussion became a little bit radical. I have been checking out Code Geass on Youtube while the tournament was in progression, although I haven't gotten to the part that would have been relevant in my casting a vote for Lelouche in the finals, as people were arguing about. My viewing of the entire series of Code Geass could have had a different outcome of my vote, but I will be checking out the rest of the series.
Not really, my character just got ousted in the first round, that's about it.
I was just here to vote participate in the tournament, which I did. |
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DerekTheRed
Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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1)
I respectfully disagree, and this falls in line with the only suggestion I had to change the tournament. I think the seeds should be kept secret. That would prevent the mindless voting, which I admittedly did some times too. If you take a look here, you'll notice that a seed can be placed in any of the circles and they wouldn't end up matched up with each other until the fourth round anyway. Placing seeds at the top and bottom of each bracket (like in sports) only matters if each contestant is seeded. I also agree with this:
2) Not really. I decided long ago that I have zero interest in watching Death Note and I already had an interest for most of the shows that had their characters do well in this tournament. 3) Can't say so. 4) I feel like I can only answer this question based on anime that I have seen. Therefore my final four would have been like so: A: Urumi Kanzaki B: Lain Iwakura C: Lupin D: Taichi Hiraga-Keaton (Jack of all trades and master of... THEM ALL) (Lupin would win ) |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I second DerekTheRed's idea. 2) No 3) I don't regret voting for the characters who I voted. Though, I think I might have voted differently If I saw GITS. 4) I hoped to see in the Final four Johan Libert, Reinhard von Lohengramm, and Yang Wen-li, I had no one particular in mind for the forth person, I hoped that someone worthy would appear. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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1. I don't think there were any particular problems with the tournament format per se.
Many of the actual arguments in favor or against the different characters were reasonably polite and relatively interesting to read, regardless of how much I agreed with each of them, and a few actually managed to genuinely convince me. Even if the debates were often too short or went nowhere, I feel that the positives were greater than the negatives. Still, perhaps the rules could be modified in some way in order to limit or hopefully prevent certain kinds of behavior from getting a little out of hand in the process. How so? I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. 2. Yes. Most notably, I am definitely going to watch or read Monster at some point in the near future. While I had heard good things about it, this contest has made me increasingly curious about Johan as a character and the story surrounding him. 3. Other than my participation being somewhat sporadic, for various reasons...I don't really regret my choices. 4. Aside from the fact I would have liked to see Johan or Reinhard reach the end, like plenty of others have already mentioned, I'm actually generally fine with those that did make it. There is never going to be a definitive concensus, a Final Four everyone is going to like, but that didn't make things any less interesting. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18234 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Concerning the seeding: A seeding system will remain in place, as it exists to minimize the frequency of horribly strong face-offs occasionally seen in the early rounds of the earlier tournaments. (Anyone else remember Excel vs. Dokuro-chan in Round 3 of the Craziest Character Tournament?) I think this has been largely successful in the last couple of tournaments.
However, I do like the idea of "blind" seeding (i.e. seeds are set but randomly mixed into their respective halves of their bracket, and thus not automatically at the top or bottom), as it wouldn't require any extra work on my part and might help reduce bias. That will be implemented for the next tournament. Concerning the nomination process: Requiring a justification for the first nomination of a character - even seemingly obvious choices - is something I was thinking about doing anyway for the next tournament, so it will definitely be implemented. To answer my own questions: 3. I think I mentioned this during the tournament at some point, but for me the most glaring omission was Sinon Kouzuki, the tactical whiz in Starship Operators. She was the one chiefly responsible for the Amaterasu's tactical-based victories and was widely-praised and respected even by her enemies, so she was unquestionably a better choice than either of the other two characters from that series who did make it. She had at least second-round, and probably third or fourth round, potential. That I missed the fact that she wasn't one of the nominated SO characters still makes me wince. 4. The Final Four as it happened was not far from what I expected it to be, so I offer no alternatives. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Thinking a little more on it, having the seeds known prior to the tournament probably boosted the mini-game scores. Not that it's a good or bad thing, just something I noticed. In the duos tournament, 6 of the 8 seeds made it to the final eight, but only three of the pairings (Kei&Bell, Ed&Al and Kurau&Xmas; and Kei&Bell didn't make it to the final four) were guessed to make it so far by more than a few (ironically, Haruhi&Kyon were the most popular in the minigame but were stopped early I like to think due at least partly to my arguments for Yukino&Souchiro). In the clever tournament, the mini-game quarter and semifinal picks were full of seeded characters. For the duos tourament mini-game, except in group C (Elric's and K&C's group), after the second round, accuracy rapidly declined from about 25% to 10%, while the cleverest tournament minigame generally maintained a steady decline from 75% to 40% from start to finish (excluding a spike in D4). So, yeah, seeding the characters works even when it's not obvious. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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No offense to anyone who voted for them I but I agree with you Dorcas about Haruhi and Kyon heh. In the mini-game I voted for them to go further because I thought they would. It was a situation of being pleasantly surprised heh. I was still amazed in that one that my choice actually won. Kurau and Christmas. I always felt as long as they won I didn't care how I did at all in the mini game. I thought it was futile though as many people had not seen any of the show going into that tournament. I that particular title, above all others in any of the tournaments, gained the most notice and new fans. Just an opinion but it sure seemed as the tournament progressed to gain more and more new fans and people who planned to see the show. My one real recommendation I suppose is make the topics for the next tournament easier to vote on. I avoided this one for a reason. I mean how do you decide who's the most intelligent? Were we basing this on IQ? Were supposed to base it on accomplishments? The amount of accomplishments or the grand nature of the accomplishments? How about the ability to get away with your accomplishments or hunt those down who perpetrate them? I just saw too many loop holes and uncertainties for the basis of the votes. I mean simply saying vote for the most intelligent or most clever really left the door too open I felt. One could say the same for the Best Duo tournament but even there you had an underlining thought they all had to achieve. That being their ability to progress as a duo. I mean if they just screw around or break up, or kill each other obviously that's a weak duo. So even while it was personal opinion on how the duos progressed in their respective series and who was stronger then the other all the duos had to at least prove they grew stronger as a duo to advance. So whatever the next tournament topic is I would suggest make it a simpler one, or make it very specific on what exactly participants are supposed to consider with their votes. Not just "vote for who's smarter" without any real specific guideline all are to follow. Just my suggestion. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18234 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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That one and Banner/Crest of the Stars (whose wrap-up Banner III OVA series I just managed to track down and watch, BTW - and that entire two episode OVA justifies more strongly than anything else why Jinto and Lafiel deserved to make it to the Finals). I know a lot of people made comments about the wonder of discovering that franchise because of the tourney. Anyway, more back on thread topic. . .
I dunno, I kinda like leaving interpretations of the topic at least a little vague, as it promotes discussion. Making the qualifications too specific reduces people to just voting in a more mechanical sense, and that's no fun. We'll see what we come up with in the nominations process. You can always vote for a more narrow, clearly-defined subject, after all. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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One thing that did rankle me was the 9-2 margin of first-time voters (or those who hadn't voted in awhile) in favour of Aramaki in the C+D quater-final. If no-one had voted that time who hadn't also voted the previous week, Light would have won 10-9.
With all due respect to those that spoke out and said that the PMs they got were not biased, I still feel that a 9-2 margin in favour of a single character is abnormal and suspect. I feel that Light was cheated out of making the semi-finals. Here we have a character who was arguably the equal to the eventual winner (L). And yet, he got soundly defeated by Aramaki, who came a distant third against Lelouch (arguably Light's protégé), who himself got defeated by L. The attitudes of voters just don't stack up, unless you consider that a "hit-job" was taken out on Light. I know I sound like I have a case of sour grapes, but I believe that I have a legitimate gripe. I also believe the best character won in the end. Its just that the process in getting there was not all squeaky clean. I don't really have any easy answers. We shouldn't be stopping newcomers from joining in. But at the moment there are no controls to stop or discourage people from making secondary accounts, or contacting their friends or acquaintances to vote a particular way. Oh, and one more thing I didn't like; the most boneheaded arguments made for or against characters. One voter actually tried to tell us that L was not intelligent because he didn't wear shoes. Another claimed that Light shouldn't advance because he was a sociopath, and therefore morally unfit to be the most intelligent. I would like to see in people's arguments more emphasis placed on the actual merits of the various characters, not on such dribble. It makes a mockery of the tournament; and makes you look brainless. If you don't like a character then tough, because unless the tournament is a "Which Character Do You Like the Most" sort of affair, whether you like or dislike a character is irrelevant. Tournaments should be meritocracies, not popularity contests. Phew, now I have all that off my chest, I can go eat some of the nice bread I'm making. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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Yea Crest/Banner also got a lot of love and interest showed. Which I agree with you Theron is a damn good thing. I always pimp that show out like to any friends who are into Science Fiction. That was another happy mistake on my part. I didn't expect them to go as far as they did but was quite pleased to see it happen. Heh the funny thing is both "couples" in the finals weren't romantic. That's funny cause at the beginning everyone made that uproar about separating romantic and platonic and yet romantic lost heh. Damn you Theron....dragged me OT.... I agree a little vague helps to entice and induce more discussion. But if they're too vague and open.....well...you saw. That's why i think the Duo worked so well. I mean the underlining point was clear, do they move forward as a duo? Then the interpretations come in as to how they do and to what degree compared to another duo they're matched up against. The main idea of how people were judging the duos were clear. The base was set so to speak. Then everyone got to run with it and discuss how they felt duo A was stronger then duo B. With the most intelligent tournament it wasn't even that clear how people were to supposed to even interpret and measure intelligence. By IQ, accomplishments, etc. That's how I felt anyways which is why I never voted until I got asked to via PM. I dunno if that explains my point better or if I just made it more convoluted. |
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DerekTheRed
Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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Dude, they weren't biased. Stop being paranoid. And besides, everything can't be squeaky clean, right. |
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Olliff
Posts: 550 |
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Actually the guy with the shoe argument did have a valid point, ironically. If I remember correctly he argued that L didn't manage to accomplish anything. Also, I do not think any of his other arguments were even trying to be serious. He was just trying to inject some humor into a thread that was way too serious; I even let out a slight chuckle when I read his post. There were equally ridiculous arguments against Lelouch as well, namely the one you completely tore apart. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Edit: @DerekTheRed.
Ha ha, very funny. I thought it was obvious that my attempts to make a deal with people was just a joke; I hope no-one actually took it at face-value. As for Yuki, I believe I did the right thing in voting against her (and against my Minigame, which last I looked was perfectly allowable). She isn't a character so much as an emotionless machine. Heck, if Yuki is thought to be smart character, then by that criteria one of the Alakazams from Pokemon might have won the tournament (given that they have IQs of 5000). But this was a tournament for characters, not computers or supposedly smart animals, so that's why she failed to receive my vote. @Olliff: When was that? I don't remember tearing apart an argument against Lelouch. |
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