Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S. Senator Wyden Places Hold on Net Copyright Bill
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
ZakuAce
 Posts: 525 Location: SE Wisconsin |
|
|||||
As far as I'm concerned, this is the biggest problem with piracy. Instead of saying "okay, yeah we're stealing too much (and stop with the stupid argument of stealing vs copyright infringement; it's pointless) we should tone it down or else bad things will happen" the attitude is "Let's find a way to get around the law and stick it to the man." I see the argument all the time of "the government is trying to control everything," but no one ever brings up the fact that the pirates aren't willing to compromise at all. When you give the government a reason to exert more control, the government is going to take it. I blame any rights I will lose on those who helped give the government an excuse to take action. Don't give them that reason. |
||||||
|
||||||
Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||
Ok so I if I want to make an anime, movie, book series, or manga whose going to give me the money? You? Are you going to give me the 200,000 dollars per episode budget to make an anime? You have the 2,600,000 dollars to make a 13 episode series? I want to make a blockbuster movie, but I refuse to play by Hollywood's rules, you have 150 million dollars? Check the Sofa, you might have it. How many books besides "John dies at the end" have made it successfully online? Right off the top of my head that's the only online book that has a movie being made about it. Guess what even "John dies at the end" has been published by a massive publisher. But let's get down to what where talking about, sure you can make a manga online but your sure not going to get the 100,000 sales that the major publishers could get you. As for making an anime and video game online without the publishers, that takes massive amounts of money, as I stated just to make a thirteen episode series you need a couple million dollars. As for making a video game, GTA 4 cost over a 100 million dollars to make, so without Rockstar or another major publisher of Video games, the developers could have never made that game. I guess you could pull a Makoto Shinkai get a bunch of friends together and make your own anime but frankly that's not really going to happen, and certainly not enough to replace the massive downsizing of the anime industry. |
||||||
|
||||||
Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
|
|||||
Except for stuff that is considered "top secret," at least if the U.S government is to be believed. @Zaku The problem isn't that some people aren't willing to cooperate, it's that the government is asking for far too much power with too little oversight. Also, with the way the bill is worded, simple news sites that are related to and link to just the software could be targeted. If COICA was law a few years ago, we wouldn't have sites like youtube or crunchyroll today, as just a few years back they would have fallen under what this bill would consider a target. As many people before me have said, you don't win the people over by calling them pirates and being bull-headed about new technologies, you do it by adapting to the times and changing your business models to suit the customers. Edit: @Charred Knight Money isn't everything when making movies, just look at Clerks and it's price tag of $27,575 and how it made over 3 mil in the theatres. Look at Cory Doctorow, who writes free books, and gets his money from stuff such as advertising and public speeches, or Nina Paley. after several years finally being able to release "Sita Sings the Blues," for free. Hell, look at Minecraft and how it made over $300k in a day. People will pay for these things depending on the quality of the goods, not how much money was thrown at it. It's like saying you prefer the $10,000 hammer over the $10 one just cause it's shinier. Last edited by Daemonblue on Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||
Except that the business model people want is not feasible, the manga industry in America alone makes at least 25 times as much revenue as pirating companies. The problem is that while pirating companies have no cost except for webhosting, the american companies have to pay the Japanese large amounts of money in licensing, money that goes towards the making of more manga, and paying the creator more money. If pirating companies went legit than they would be losing money. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||
|
Zaku, you speak too much as though pirates are a homogeneous group. They are not. Pirates are individuals, and they do what they do because of an individual desire to achieve ends through chosen means. Those means which require the least effort and expense and result in the greatest reward is what people are going to take.
Government can't change the essentials of incentive structure. Humans are predominately self-interested. Even those who buy Anime/Games/etc. (like myself) do this not primarily out of altruism or a notion that we absolutely must not break the law (I pirate and buy) but rather because we deem this the best way to continue to reach those ends. Those who are more law-abiding tend to value what they see as an objective standard of morality that disallows them from breaking the law but their chosen means of buying-only are simply a display of those values. But ultimately, what one values decides how one will act. Pirates can no more "compromise" their nature than any other individual. Only by changing the values of pirates (or leading them to believe that buying attains their end goals better than pirating) can one change the action. All of the "guilt trip" arguments are based on changing the values, but this is the most difficult thing to do. Convincing someone against his will is extremely difficult. He chose his values based on his experience and his interests. But if you can show him how it benefits him more not to pirate (this includes laws that punish him) then he will pirate less. The problem with laws like this is that they can be abused by bureaucrats. The "guilty until proven innocent" nature of these laws gives a huge incentive for bureaucrats with an axe to grind to take advantage of it. And the more of these types of draconian controls you have, the more interest that bad people will have in getting into "civil service." It was not so long ago there was no TSA, yet now we have a TSA that goes overboard. As this continues you'll find more employees recruited who have less than desirable interests, because the incentive to join is much greater. |
||||||
|
||||||
Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
|
|||||
So, if I look at scanlations/fansubs, yet buy the legitimate releases, then i'm a Prole? Gee, thanks a lot. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
Unbelievable! You recognize the fact that the goverment is using an excuse to do a power grab (the less rights the populace has the more power politicians can exert) yet you still think "the pirates" are too blame. News Flash! The goverment would have used any other excuse (or created one) to remove your rights. Even if there was some kind of pirate summit (that does not exist even in works of fantasy) where all pirates would accept to forffeit pirate activities it would make NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. If you want an example, remember how hussein (the other hussein) dismantled his nuclear power program,iyet his country was still invaded anyway on the pretense of the existance of WMD. So it makes no difference, they will remove your rights even if pirates disappear from the face of this earth. Doing the blame game only benefits the politicians! |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||
|
Yes because as everyone knows politicians are pure evil. Hey how about you start writing comic strips about it and call it "mangamuscle tracts".
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
ZakuAce
Posts: 525 Location: SE Wisconsin |
|
|||||
|
I don't believe the government exists to control your life and ruin everything. While I disagree with, for example, many of the current US Administration's policies, I don't believe that they are purposefully trying to make my life suck. The argument of "the government would have done it anyway!" is not valid. Do you really believe that the Patriot Act would have come about without 9/11? I don't. This is an overreaction to a problem, just like the Patriot Act. Without the problem, the solution would not be necessary.
And as someone who has worked to get people elected to public office, I don't believe that politicians are inherently evil. |
||||||
|
||||||
Fabe
 Posts: 219 |
|
|||||
a Jack chick comparison,ouch that's harsh. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
I never said they were evil, they are like animals, leave your dog inside your house and leave a piece of steak on the table and you will not find it when you return, but that does not mean your dog is evil, Here you are letting politicians run amok, time to put them a collar!
You no doubt must be younger, of course that 9/11 speed up the process since everybody was playing right into the hands of dubya, but to think that 9/11 is the cause and the patriot act is the effect is ignoring the fact that this has been a process that started a long time ago to remove the rights of populace. If everything was as you said then the patriot act would have been abolished long ago, in all the time since its inception I have not heard of ONE case where it has been useful to stop terrorists (common law enforcement has done the trick each and every time). It is not that politicians is trying to make your life suck, they are simply attempting to make their lives easier.
Read the above. |
||||||
|
||||||
asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
|
|||||
The Patriot act would have never been created if 9/11 never happened. To say it would have been created if it never happened it just pointless. I'm gong to agree with Zaku on this one. I don't think the government is evil, I just don't think we have the right people in to make it work better. I don't like some of the current policies either, but that's what we have right now. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Greboruri
Posts: 378 Location: QBN, NSW, Australia |
|
|||||
There's also the hypocrisy of the US government who not only has a policy that the internet should be open and free for all citizens in the world, while essentially doing the opposite. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||
|
and who do you think the people who are leaving the steak out? The pirates, they try to find new ways not to pay for things so the entertainment companies try to find new ways to get them to pay for things.
Stop with the conspiracy theories and search for some real answers. |
||||||
|
||||||
FaytLein
 Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
|
|||||
I just had to point out one little flaw in that logic. The government only allows for three inalienable rights. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Now, as for the big 10 amendments, even those rights have limits. Freedom of speech? So I can yell fire in a crowded theatre? Freedom of assembly? I can gather a large crowd anywhere in the US at any time for any reason? Freedom of the press? So I can go around, telling blantant lies in order to sell copies? Right to bear arms? So I can own as many Uzis and AKs as I want without anyone the wiser? Now, by my stance, you probably think that I'm some pro-huge government nutjob, that thinks governmental control over as much as possible is the best thing since sliced bread. You couldn't be more wrong. I'm of the personal opinion that governemt does serve an important framing device that sets the tone for how things SHOULD be handled. Oversight, steering you in the right direction, fostering growth economically and socially and otherwise staying out of people's affairs. Now, with a lot of extremism in people's viewpoints, and politicians desperate for that independent vote, they will say and do pretty much anything to win. That being said, I do think there should be a basic set of rules and regulations when it comes to the internet, however those rules shouldn't infringe on our rights. A tricky situation right? But that is exactly why we have a representative government, they make the big money to make those tough decisions, and we have to make it known we don't want a fly-by night solution to an obviously difficult problem. And to wrap it up, ( I apologize if I've horribly veered off topic) I think piracy can be handled without overt censorship from the government, just allow the legal companies be able to exercise the ability to control their content on the internet by going through service providers rather than heavy handed government action. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group