Forum - View topicKaiba (TV).
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Episode 3 is so far my favorite. It helped me make a lot more sense of this series, although I still can't help but think that it's still too early for me to give it a ratting, based off of the fact that it's still hard to make sense of everything. But I will say that if the rest of this series is anything like episode 3, this'll definitely be a masterpiece in my book, bar none.
Oh I know, that's exactly the same feeling I'm getting from it as well. Seeing spoiler[all those happy moments they had with her and knowing how disturbingly despicable a thing it was she did to her at the same time] really makes for quite a hauntingly powerful moment. Plus the overall way that scene was handled when spoiler[she was remembering those things] added onto it all the much more. I also can't help but feel this is the feeling we're going to get from the series overal, given the premise. OT: BTW it's official, you have by FAR the most awesome avatar of anyone in the forum. 
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I'm sorry... maybe I don't appreciate this abstract style, maybe I don't get why people think the "retro" (what I call the "before they could actually draw-style") style is good or whatever, but i really find it difficult to enjoy this. It looks like they've used colour to indicate emotion or mood or whatever but it ends up just looking like a disco.. I don't like the character design, and I'm having trouble following the plot, and I'm dropping it. I won't give it a bad rating because I don't rate anything that I don't watch all the way through, but I honestly don't understand what you guys see in this.
I don't want to "work out" an anime, I want to be able to simply enjoy it. I love a complex plot, but I don't love trying to work out the meaning behind seemingly random colour and animation. Also I _don't_ think the OP is that special; the song is nice but I don't find that the animation accentuates (or detracts from necessarily) it in any way that is special or different, aside from the fact that the animation is just as detail-less as every other part of it. I honestly felt it was like an attempt at a miyazaki-esque style but with less effort put in.
Maybe you can explain to me what I'm missing? I'm sure you have a label to put me under such as "conformist", but I couldn't help but comment because everyone is responding positively and i really can't see why. I think the best first episode i've seen since I dunno when would either have to go to Kure-nai or Soul Eater, but not this. I'm not trying to incite a flame war or anything, merely putting a different perspective out there. I don't hate abstract; I quite enjoyed Tenshi no Tamago and other such obscure titles. The weirdness factor for this show is off the charts, and I just don't get it. I understand about experimenting with your canvas or whatever but it's similar to my distaste for abstract art - i just don't get it. Am I the only one that feels this way? |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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You're certainly not. I fall into the same category as you. After watching some of Kemonozume and Kaiba, I've found out this just isn't the type of anime for me. Although I found the plot in this to be more interesting than Kemonozume's, it still didn't interest me enough to keep going past two episodes. I suppose I just don't get the artwork in this and what is so intriguing about it. It was different, definitely, but nothing mind blowing to me. I actually I found some of it to be rather sloppy. But thank god there's so many genres of anime, so no need to worry, this is just not the type of anime for you. Personally I'm with Kurenai all the way this season, beautiful writing, execution, and characters. I love it. |
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nerazzurri
Posts: 2 |
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I have a friend who condemned Kaiba after seeing the art, I cant blame him tho because initially i was abit turned off by the cutesy look( the art is good to me but i just dont dig cute characters) but after getting into the story line, I found the background suprisingly dark and twisted.
I must say episode 3 is one of the best anime episodes I have watched in awhile. Give it a try if u can get past the cutesy retro disco art |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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Well, for people who aren't enjoying this show, I suppose I can only explain why it's so appealing to me--
1) Creative, fun, aesthetically provocative animation-- now, how wonderfully something is animated doesn't really have much to do with how it looks as an illustration, and this is one of the typical gripes of a lot of anime fans, where beautifully crafted static shots are the norm. I like my static shots as well as the next guy (like in Mushishi, or 5 cm per second), but there's a kind of joy and madness in Kaiba's chase scenes with their expressive and flamboyant, very ... stretchy kind of character animation that I find infectious. It makes me pause and really pay attention to what I'm watching, and that's what I love about animation. 2) It's obviously a labor of love-- this ties in to the character designs for me, which are so obviously Tezuka-influenced. No one goes around making designs like that unless they're trying to recreate some of the flavor of an artist that they love-- particularly because it flies in the face of current anime conventions. See, character designs don't turn me on or off to a show, they're just part of the overall aesthetic experience for me. But, I also have watched/do watch a lot of other animation that has nothing to do with anime, so it doesn't really bother me if people are "ugly" or "old school." It's not why I'm watching the show. I also love the feeling of a whole world being explored-- so far, it's all sort of bound together pretty well, and I find that intriguing. I don't, however, think it's very fair though to suggest that much of anything in this show is being done "sloppily", or that it's drawn in that "before they knew how to draw" sort of way. I'm sorry, but I think it must be obvious that they very much know how to draw, and that people, even, yes, 50 years ago in the time of Tezuka, also knew how to draw. The choice to draw characters the way they're drawn in Kaiba is an obvious aesthetic choice. One might not like it I suppose, find it childish or whatnot, but I think it's obviously not true that the creators didn't care or were being "sloppy"-- particularly if you know their other work. 3) It makes me think-- that seems pretty self explanatory, but I think it's worth noting that some people just want to be entertained. As some have said, they don't want to try and "get it". I like that sort of entertainment too, but I also really crave stuff that challenges me. Kaiba is doing that-- and when I get down to the nitty gritty of it, it's seemed worth the effort so far. 4) It's just plain fun for me. It's quirky and playful, and idiosyncratic, and doesn't pander to me or to anyone-- It genuinely feels like the brain child of a artist, and that makes it intimate at times, rather than feeling like something produced by a cultural machine. I know that's sort of high and mighty to some, but it's part of what makes it's quirkiness so appealing to me. Now, I think if one was to make a real critique of the show, I would say that it can be emotionally distant at times, and that Kaiba really is a cipher. Still, I thought ep 3 was emotionally stirring, and sort of answered that concern. As for Kaiba-- well, so far, it seems obvious to me that the show's not _really_ about him, at it's emotional core, ep to ep, so I think if one is looking for him to interact more, or for him to be the emotional core of the show, is to be headed down a path that won't lead to much. I think you're asking the show for something it's not built to deliver. Personally, I've found the idea of a two largely mute "main characters" ingenious and terribly fun, but to each their own. I'm sure, in time, their stories will come to forefront, and when they do they'll be emotionally resonant. Whatever the case, no big deal if you don't like the show-- it's definitely very daring, probably will fail occasionally for taking so many chances, and doesn't really abide (for better or worse) by the typical conventions of anime aesthetics. |
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Skylark
Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I guess that was a pretty crass way of putting it, and probably not really fair either. (I had read HellKorn's post and felt a little miffed over his comment that "the anime scene has been pretty barren since the previous summer season delivered us Mononoke and Baccano!, so you didn't really miss all that much between then". I felt the attitudes of a portion of the people posting (not everyone) was really elitist and thus my post may have come across as a bit rash.) Everyone sees anime differently, through their own eyes and with their own experiences... For me, though, I find that I need to feel involved with a character to enjoy a particular anime and I find it very difficult to do so with the whole retro style. I guess it just comes down to a matter of opinion like with everything else, but Kaiba was just so much more abstract and weird than anything I've seen before that I couldn't really understand how anyone liked it, let alone raving about how wonderful it is. That's probably just my own experiences telling me what I like and don't like.
Don't get me wrong; I like to be challenged in that I love a complex plot, deep characters, etc. But I don't know; having to understand the meaning of the palette the artist has chosen to fully comprehend a given scenario is too much for me. I kind of get what is being attempted with Kaiba, I just felt it was too much/too far. I'll just stick to that which my cultural machine spits out. Lulz. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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You need to keep in mind that this comment was directed at me in particular, and HellKorn knows my tastes very well. It wasn't just a blank generalization. And for us, well, it has kind of been uneventful recently. My taste lies in the more auteuristic and progressive, and he knows this. Of course there's been lots of other stuff that lots of other people are excited about from the past year, but none of it is really for me, just like Kaiba isn't really for you. That's totally cool, and thanks for at least keeping an open mind and giving the show a chance. 
Back to the main topic, I'm *so* impressed so far. The visuals are totally engaging, of course. It's nice to see some familiar Yuasa patterns splashed in with all the kinetic energy--the use of monochrome, the animated backgrounds, all very, very good. And I think he has a much better grip on the storytelling aspect of TV anime this time around--the pacing feels much more comfortable than it did in Kemonozume. I can't wait for more. This series is an animator's dream. |
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samuraiwalt
Posts: 647 |
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That explains why I thought of it as Cat Soup meets Astro Boy. Since Nobutaka Ito and Masaaki Yuasa both worked on Cat Soup. |
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Raven Shinobi
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Wow! I was sure after finishing Ghost Hound that there won't be anything that good for a while and then I stumbled upon Kaiba by chance
I share everyone's sentiment that ep 3 is one of the best episodes in a while. spoiler[I kept rewatching the part when Chroniko's aunt was playing the piano and reminicing about her niece until I began crying myself, and then I rewound and began taking pictures of Chroniko, it's been a long while since the death of a certain character affected me this much. ] Last edited by Raven Shinobi on Fri May 09, 2008 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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That's funny-- but that's exactly the sort of stuff that thrills me. I find it more.... interactive (???). Whatever the case, to each their own.
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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What Cloe said. I will say that I'm guilty of elitism if it consists of being an overly-critical young grump and wishing a helluva lot more people would give stuff I love a try. More often than not it seems as though my efforts are in vein; I could type until my fingers bleed, yet I'd win few, if any, converts from such posting. (And just forget trying to coax my friends and distant relatives... At least I've won my mom and aunt over. I've been pleasantly surprised at how receptive they've been to anime involving Kon and ABe, in addition to usual winners like Miyazaki and Watanabe.) Steve Berry summed up perfectly what I love about Kaiba. What gets me most of all is how the sum is even greater than its (already excellent) parts -- what I mean is how it engages me so well emotionally, intellectually and most of all, how downright imaginative and fun it is. A fair number of anime might fill one quota, fewer two, but I can count the amount that accomplish all three on one hand. As for why the art and animation is so stunning, read Ben's individual episode write-ups: episode one, episode two, episode three. I'd also recommend Cloe's fantastic post explaining why Kemonozume is such a visual triumph -- it holds true for Kaiba, as well. (In fact, I'd say that the opening theme for Kaiba, just like the one for Kemonozume, exemplifies exactly why it's so visually impressive.) Anyway, I have to say that Steve's observation about Kaiba serving primarily as a cipher so far is a very good one. How must it be for someone who has no memories of their own, who is completely alien to their surrounding environments -- much like us viewers -- to be learning more about others than themselves? It's a fantastic device because Yuasa allows us to access more intimate moments of the characters within the universe while exploring it, and also gives plenty of catalysts for Kaiba as a character to develop. Brilliant stuff. Oh, and the first volume of the R2 DVDs is set to come out June 25th. I've already pre-ordered my copy at CDJapan. (The first time I'll ever be buying R2 DVDs as they come out; would've done that with the Mononoke DVDs if cash wasn't a problem at the time of their releases.) |
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Jedi General
 Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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I haven't watched episode 4 yet, but I agree that episode 3 changed my opinion on the series. It could very well end up being one of, if not the best series this season. Certainly has the potential and none of it has been wasted in the slightest yet.
BTW, HellKorn, I'm currently watching Texhnolyze and I absolutely love it. |
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Bah, you weren't supposed to start without me! J/k, I was planning on Lain next anyway.
I'm going to marathon what's out of Kaiba (and another series) today because I'm slow and need to catch up. So I'll be back with a comment later today. |
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Jedi General
Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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Well excuse me for not being able to read your mind, Ko-chan.  I'll be moving on to Lain after I've completed Texhnolyze. I've only got 9 more episodes to go. This will be my second time trying to get into Lain, BTW. My previous attempt failed to get me past the first DVD, but I imagine I'll have an easier time of it now that I'm used to (and really like) Konaka's style.
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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More love for Kaiba, Texhnolyze and Serial Experiments Lain makes me a very happy anime fan. I hope you still have plans to start up discussion threads for the two latter series, AG! |
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