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The Count
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 303
Location: Milwaukee,WI
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:39 pm
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| 7jaws7 wrote: | | The new Berserk makes Claymore's anime adaptation look like a masterpiece. |
 Oh damn. I just re watched Claymore for the umptenth time and yep your right.
I appreciate this article and have some understanding of why the new Berserk is the way it is, but as a simple person I keep come back to this was the best they could do and was acceptable? They couldn't animate it like any other anime they had to lean into the CGI this hard? I don't completely hate CGI, I liked it in Knights of Sidonia and Ajin, but this was unwatchable filth.
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Ishkabibble
Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 7
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:43 pm
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This series was......really badly made and the article seems to try to blame it all on the tools. Sorry, but just inept all around. Even the sound/music direction, something that usually isn't budget dependent, was atrocious. Not mediocre or bland, just outright bad. One of those things where the "making-of" comedy of errors would be more entertaining than the product itself.
I didn't even bother watching the second season after seeing the first. Seeing some of those laughable gifs slightly tempted me to see some "disaster-piece theater." Might see it with some friends to laugh at it just for kicks, but eh, got better things to watch.
Would enjoy a real tell-all from a behind-the-scenes source who was involved in the production, but I understand that it's far more likely that everyone involved will try to pretend it never happened.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2306
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:08 pm
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| Ishkabibble wrote: | | This series was......really badly made and the article seems to try to blame it all on the tools. Sorry, but just inept all around. Even the sound/music direction, something that usually isn't budget dependent, was atrocious. |
The article only spoke to technical issues with art & animation quality, and I agree that there was a lot more in Berserk 2016-2017 to criticize than that (although I am one of the handful who really enjoyed it, and will probably eventually buy it), but I read the original article as less about inadequacy of tools and more about the studio not really having the technical competency to understand how to use their tools. That they built 3D models so complicated that their viewports ground to a halt really screams to me that whoever was making the calls about how the models had to look really had no idea what was reasonable and/or that the art staff lacked the 3D chops to balance efficient use of polys against final aesthete - which is to say that I read the article as primarily blaming the studio's weak 3D competency and lack of readiness for the project they took on, not on their not having a somewhat better rendering farm (which wouldn't help with the viewport freeze anyway) or some such.
As an aside, I think RWBY is kind've an interesting benchmark for comparison to Berserk. RWBY's animation isn't exactly breathtaking either, but its direction, voice-acting, and score all come together to make it a thoroughly fun experience. I think it also leans into the quirks of its characters better than Berserk 2016-2017 did. Anyway, I think it's a great example of the kind've quality we could expect out a very budget, CG-heavy Berserk production. It's a shame we didn't quite get that.
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Treiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 121
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:00 pm
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I never expected to see another Berserk animated adaptation, especially not one following the Golden Age, so as far as I am concerned anything I get to see is gravy. Sure this new show didn't look as good as it could have, but the original show looked like garbage too so that's par for the course. I enjoyed the two seasons, and would be happy to watch more if they can con more funding for them.
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v1cious
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6203
Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:17 pm
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| 7jaws7 wrote: | | The new Berserk makes Claymore's anime adaptation look like a masterpiece. |
I don't see how they're even in the same league. Claymore had fantastic animation, what ruined it was the writing.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:48 am
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| v1cious wrote: | |
I don't see how they're even in the same league. Claymore had fantastic animation, what ruined it was the writing. |
I would say what ruined it was the writing on the last 2 episodes. I know the story, blah blah not caught up with the anime blah blah. How they went about doing those episodes though makes it impossible to continue on and stick to the manga. Not as if a season 2 would happen anyways, but if it was ever a thought and twinkle in some animator's eye those 2 episodes killed it.
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Fatt_One
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Ohio USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:48 am
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| whiskeyii wrote: |
| Gasero wrote: | | Ever since the reveal of the Arc System Works 2D/3D engine, I have been waiting for someone to use that style to animate a series. |
I think the Guilty Gear Xrd folks at GDC said that software is proprietary, so I'm sure it'd cost an arm and a leg to even get the rights to use in the first place. |
I didn't realize bog standard Unreal Engine 3 was "proprietary" lol.
That game has no special engine, they just used a pre-existing engine in ways no one before them ever thought to. It also took them a very long time to animate characters that way, also using a game engine to animate an anime seems weird.
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malbhet
Joined: 30 Oct 2015
Posts: 13
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:00 am
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Next season just drop the 3d crap, it didn't go over well with the movies or the series and it won't work any time in the future. With all of that crap they could have made the animation similar to Netflix's Castlevania series, at least fans would have praised the series then rather than the hobbled garbage we got now. I'm just gonna stick to the manga from this point forward, and if a Vampire Hunter D series or Bloodborne anime ever go into production please keep it as far away as possible from these guys! I want Vampire Hunter D to keep the dignity it earned through it's novels and movies at the very least.
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The Count
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 303
Location: Milwaukee,WI
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:13 am
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| Treiz wrote: | | I never expected to see another Berserk animated adaptation, especially not one following the Golden Age, so as far as I am concerned anything I get to see is gravy. Sure this new show didn't look as good as it could have, but the original show looked like garbage too so that's par for the course. I enjoyed the two seasons, and would be happy to watch more if they can con more funding for them. |
The original looked like garbage? If the new series was animated like the original I guarantee you wouldn't have most of these complaints about the visuals. While flawed it was significantly better than what we got.
It's an attitude like this, that is happy to get anything Berserk related regardless of the quality that insures all we will ever get are crap adaptions. So I want you to sit in the corner and think about what you have done in supporting this filth.
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danpmss
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 768
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:04 pm
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| The Count wrote: |
| Treiz wrote: | | I never expected to see another Berserk animated adaptation, especially not one following the Golden Age, so as far as I am concerned anything I get to see is gravy. Sure this new show didn't look as good as it could have, but the original show looked like garbage too so that's par for the course. I enjoyed the two seasons, and would be happy to watch more if they can con more funding for them. |
The original looked like garbage? If the new series was animated like the original I guarantee you wouldn't have most of these complaints about the visuals. While flawed it was significantly better than what we got.
It's an attitude like this, that is happy to get anything Berserk related regardless of the quality that insures all we will ever get are crap adaptions. So I want you to sit in the corner and think about what you have done in supporting this filth. |
Except our opinion is quite irrelevant for them, and won't ever change their planning regardless of the backlash.
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The Count
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 303
Location: Milwaukee,WI
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:10 pm
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| danpmss wrote: |
| The Count wrote: |
| Treiz wrote: | | I never expected to see another Berserk animated adaptation, especially not one following the Golden Age, so as far as I am concerned anything I get to see is gravy. Sure this new show didn't look as good as it could have, but the original show looked like garbage too so that's par for the course. I enjoyed the two seasons, and would be happy to watch more if they can con more funding for them. |
The original looked like garbage? If the new series was animated like the original I guarantee you wouldn't have most of these complaints about the visuals. While flawed it was significantly better than what we got.
It's an attitude like this, that is happy to get anything Berserk related regardless of the quality that insures all we will ever get are crap adaptions. So I want you to sit in the corner and think about what you have done in supporting this filth. |
Except our opinion is quite irrelevant for them, and won't ever change their planning regardless of the backlash. |
I know, I was just having a bit a fun there at the end. Between the crap new series, the uninspired musou game and the inconsistent manga releases I kinda have already giving up on future Berserk releases.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5322
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:13 pm
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| The Count wrote: | | ]I know, I was just having a bit a fun there at the end. Between the crap new series, the uninspired musou game and the inconsistent manga releases I kinda have already giving up on future Berserk releases. |
The future for the Manga, is the one thing that does look bright. yes it is inconsistent, but we are still getting it each year, so it will at least be completed one day. And the quality of the art and writing is still high.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5929
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:31 pm
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| Ulinox wrote: | | You know it's not good when someone makes a "what happened?" article about your anime. They should just remake it all in traditional animation and follow the manga properly. I'd rather have it in OVAs like they did Hellsing Ultimate, really. |
The manga already has people complaining about the gaps in new chapters without an OVA coming along and having the same problems as Hellsing Ultimate had with it's releases.
| malbhet wrote: | | at least fans would have praised the series then rather than the hobbled garbage we got now. |
Well yeah provided they adapt everything, the music is impeccable, the animation comes correct, & the voice acting is good....which you know are all things everyone would be divided over.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2245
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 pm
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| Fatt_One wrote: |
| whiskeyii wrote: | |
I think the Guilty Gear Xrd folks at GDC said that software is proprietary, so I'm sure it'd cost an arm and a leg to even get the rights to use in the first place. |
I didn't realize bog standard Unreal Engine 3 was "proprietary" lol.
That game has no special engine, they just used a pre-existing engine in ways no one before them ever thought to. It also took them a very long time to animate characters that way, also using a game engine to animate an anime seems weird. |
I was actually referring to the shader they built, not the engine, hence my use of the word "software" over Gasero's "engine". And as that shader is integral to the look of Guilty Gear, I can't see the studio just handing over the code to whoever asks, hence "proprietary". But yes, I have seen amateur attempts to recreate that shader in Unreal. I do think Unreal could work as an animation framework for 3D anime, but I don't see it being widely adopted since it's more widely used in Western games--though I have seen quite a few MMD animations made in Unreal.
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Clematis
Joined: 16 Feb 2017
Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:39 am
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It would have been manageable if the anime had only missed the mark in the animation department - but it doesn't. It decimates the whole essence of what makes Berserk manga so brilliant, and its first anime adaptation the best one so far (if we exclude the game, which is a very solid adaptation in its own right).
Anyhow, I will just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LkrpMTIiP4
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