Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU Climax
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Punch Drunk Marc
Posts: 1742 |
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If I have one complaint against this otherwise stellar season...it's that Saki continues to try and assert herself as best girl. I had completely given up on her, but dammit this season is making me rethink that.
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Birriaman
Posts: 94 |
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I said it on the subreddit and stand by it today - Yui’s scenes in this episode were probably the best in the entire series: heartbreaking, “completely understandable”, emotionally draining, and absolutely believable. And even though it seems quite obvious how this whole affair should end, I’ll paraphrase the reviewer’s “To Yui it seems that 8man and Yukino’s happines lies in developing a romantic relationship with each other.” This sounds to me like an extremely important point of discussion, doesn’t it?
We just got to half of the season and there’s still lots of room for character development and growth. No matter how this love triangle ultimately resolves itself, it would seem like a wasted opportunity for greater storytelling if it were indeed played straight, just like the foreshadowing has been hinting at since S1Ep1. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4084 |
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Yui sees everything through her self esteem issues but it is kind of odd to talk about Yui and Hachiman not dating after they've already had two dates in the third season. Hachiman choosing to call their relationship a "love triangle" at the same time Yui decided she already lost in it should indicate that Hachiman himself remains undecided but aware of the potential situation. And, again, you keep going on about Yukino feeling like she has to do this herself but you neglect to mention that Yukino recruited Saki's help. It's almost like Yukino feels that using people is ok but relying on friends is a weakness.... yet Yui and Hachiman only became her friends after she used them. I don't think this girl is thinking things through, and again I blame her family for it. |
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Kuzu
Posts: 144 |
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Even when Hachiman and Yui were on their dates, Hachiman's thoughts were about Yukino. And even then, he dropped their date entirely to go help Yukino...that's as clear clut as kind of gets. Even when Hachiman is with Yui, he simply doesn't reciprocate her feelings. And Hachiman and Yukino went over the difference between "helping" in the previous episode; it would be one thing if Hachiman was actually supporting her efforts and stayed subordinate, but history has proven that when the going gets tough, she inevitably ends up relying on Hachiman for help, and he's all too willing to oblige which defeats the entire purpose of her wanting to regain her confidence. |
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Birriaman
Posts: 94 |
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I don’t know... I wouldn’t call those “dates” dates, it seemed more like friends hanging out with one of them liking the other, that doesn’t necessarily turn them into dates. On the other hand, Hachiman calling the relationship a “love triangle” is also a giveaway that he hasn’t resolved his feelings, at least consciously, but he could as well just be referring to Yui as a third wheel. I don’t think this is as clear cut as the anime seems to want us to think. And as I mentioned before, this 8man/Yukinon competition is probably driving towards a very nasty cliff. Right now I just can’t imagine how this can be resolved with a happy ending for the two of them, but then again, I’m not the author and my imagination has limits.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I don't think that Hachi0man was ever really into Yui, not even before he found out that she was the owner of the dog. He likes her as a friend, and is aware of her as a girl (she's pretty cute and really nice), but he hasn't once reciprocated her feelings. He is clearly aware of them, and knows why she was crying (at least, I think he does), but if he were to try to help her by pretending he liked her, it wouldn't be the Real Thing, and he just can't do that to himself or to her.
When he mentioned a "love triangle", it doesn't mean that everyone likes everyone else, but simply that there are 3 people who have feelings for one another. It *does not* necessarily mean that he has feelings for Yui, nor that he's torn between the two as far as who he wants to form a romantic relationship with. I took it to mean that he's aware that Yui likes him, but that he likes Yukino, who may or may not like him back. That's three people, so that's a "love triangle". Yui is hoping to make her wish come real. She already knows that Hachiman doesn't feel the same way about her that she feels about him, but hopes that somehow, he will come to do so. Doing things like showing him a picture of her (and her Hot Mom) in swimsuits while in a private room definitely has an impact, and most guys would be swayed by that. Unfortunately for her, Hachiman isn't most guys, and she knows that but can't stop herself from trying anyway. Also, I want to comment on the last review where it is stated that Hachiman recruited Yui. He didn't recruit her. She volunteered herself, and he accepted it. That may not seem like a big difference, but I think it's one worth noting. |
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Birriaman
Posts: 94 |
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Not really sure about your post, it seems you are arguing my points but we seem to agree in all of them? Anyway, if I were 8man, that Gaha-mama picture would have cleared up any doubts I may have had or not about dating Yui.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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^ I'm saying Yui's attempts are doomed to fail because Hachiman isn't into her that way. So if that's what you're saying, then we don't disagree.
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Kuzu
Posts: 144 |
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Hachiman told Yui that he won't be able to see her and she insisted on putting herself part of his plan to be close to him. She knows he doesn't like her, but emotions are complicated and don't just go away when they aren't reciprocated. Notice how she dropped her classic "yahello" for a standard "Good morning". Girl is hurting but has no idea how to handle her feelings.
Its actually pretty sad; if she speaks up about her feelings, Hachiman and Yukino are going to feel tons of guilt for unintentionally hurting her like that, and that's the last thing Yui wants, but not speaking up and futilely trying to get closer to Hachiman is taking a toll on her mental health. You'd the school would have counselors to deal with this stuff, but Anime. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4084 |
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"Yahello" Altogether now... "Yahello". "Yamete." Hachiman actually teased someone.... and it wasn't Yukino. I've been watching Yui tame/domesticate Hachiman this entire series by "petting"/getting use to her touch and feeding him and if it turns out that it's just so he'll be a better boyfriend for Yukino... who's doing very little of making Hachiman into better company... then I'm be dumping this series like its Oreimo. Going from even season 2's "Too close!" during the Kyoto trip to letting her snuggle him in season 3 is... "Hachiman isn't into her[Yui] that way." 
But when Hachiman went running off from Yui to help Yukino, he did look back for Yui. While while I watched him do it... knowing that he'd do it... I thought to myself "Don't do it or you'll turn into a pillar of salt like Job's wife..." But there are times you just have know what's in your heart, right? Yui knew what Hachiman would do if he saw her crying but what was he looking for if not to see how she was? It's like I said, it was his "Savior instinct"... big brother instinct as he put it... for Yukino but actual concern for Yui. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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^ I'm not sure what you're getting at, so I'll just repost part of what I said earlier:
'I don't think that Hachiman was ever really into Yui, not even before he found out that she was the owner of the dog. He likes her as a friend, and is aware of her as a girl (she's pretty cute and really nice), but he hasn't once reciprocated her feelings. He is clearly aware of them, and knows why she was crying (at least, I think he does), but if he were to try to help her by pretending he liked her, it wouldn't be the Real Thing, and he just can't do that to himself or to her.' I *do* think he views her as a friend, and he certainly is aware of her physical charms. He's a teenaged male, so that sort of thing is a given. But he hasn't attempted to be anything more than a friend to her. Every attempt that Yui has made to bring that about has been rebuffed or simply failed to register. OTOH, he has made efforts, mostly subtle ones, to get closer to Yukino, as the scene at the bench this episode shows. |
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Sisyphusson66
Posts: 96 |
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The final scene of this latest episode perfectly encapsulates the stalemate between Yui and Yukino and the importance of Hachiman as a decision maker.
Both Yui and Yukino fundamentally want the same thing: the happiness of the other with Hachiman and to remain friends, at the expense of their own potential happiness. Yui does this through her attempts to force Yukino into action by voicing her wish. I think it is important to note that Yui knows that her desire to be with Hachiman will never happen. Both times she has verbally expressed her wish to her friends, it has been in situations that inherently deny it. Hachiman was always going to stop Yui during episode 12, and she anticipated it. (Side note: While Yui calls herself unfair and a coward, she never goes all out in that unfairness. She could have had her way in episode 12 if she hadn't invited Hachiman, as Yukino would have capitulated.) And in this latest episode, while she states that Yukino's wish will not be granted, in reality Yui's wish can never come true from their positions because her's and Hachiman's prom is designed to fail. Meanwhile, Yukino is trying to do the same thing, but with that mixture of relief and exhaustion that she has presented over the course of this season. She is giving up for Yui's sake. The difference here, beyond their capacities to let go, is that Yukino is not burdened with Yui's understanding of their whole situation. Yui knows how things will probably end up, and so she struggles between giving up and savoring what little time she has left with the possibility of being with Hachiman. Essentially, she is going though the world's longest rejection. Yui's embrace of Yukino and planning for the future when all of this is over comes off as a sort of release of emotion that shows that no matter what happens, when all is said and done, she wants to remain close friends with Yukino. That then leaves Hachiman as the key decision maker. Yui and Yukino's stalemate is just hurting each other, and while Hachiman is not part of their conversation, he is an integral part of the groups issues. There is an overwhelming sense of dread and fear within the group, and it is a fear of the end of their current relationship. The only way for this to really end so they can move forward anew is for Hachiman to make a decision, one that is more human and flawed than his previous, more academic decisions. |
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Kuzu
Posts: 144 |
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The rap battle has to be one of the funniest non-sequiturs I've seen in a while; it's so out of leftfield and out of character for both parties that I actually had to sit for five minutes to process what I watched.
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Birriaman
Posts: 94 |
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Nice review. I don’t think I’ve ever discussed an episode of any anime as much as I did this one this week. I had arguments, analyses, banter, and a lot of discussions in the subredit. For any opinion there was a counterargument or a completely different theory. It’s nice to see that other people also got from this episode the same understanding I did:
1. That 8man being into Yukino but not actually having done anything about it is what is driving the stalemate. Yes, this isn’t the moment to confess to Yukino, but he could at least have come clean with Yui several weeks ago - IF he indeed is in love with Yukino. 2. That Yui has made up her mind that he can’t have 8man, even though she can’t actually pull through. Feelings don’t change just like that nor can they be turned off like a switch. 3. That even though Yukino is basically giving 8man to Yui, that doesn’t necessarily mean Yui will take the bait. They are at a crossroad where they will have to decide if either their friendship for each other or their respective love for 8man is stronger. 4. And finally, back to point 1, it doesn’t really matter what the girls decide since it ultimately boils down to what 8man will do, and he SEEMS to have made up his mind. Oh, and yeah, 8man definitely is interested in Yui too. It’s just that he has a very deep emotional connection with Yukino that completely drowns any potential feelings he may have for Yui right now, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is in love with Yukino either. On the other hand, it was interesting to see he never blushed when Yui leaned on him, which could mean he didn’t really care romantically, he has grown used to her enough not to blush, or simply he has grown up. I think the show is making such a point of having Yui suffer that it could very well be a subversion in the end. However, Yukino has been suffering just as much, we just are not shown that. That is why that little scene this week was so good, it showed us in 2mins part of what Yukino is going through, and it seemed just as heartbreaking as Yui’s side. Looking forward to an excellent 2nd half of the season. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4084 |
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And Hachiman has made efforts, mostly actual ones, to get closer to Yui as the earlier "this can't be a date because it defeats my whole premise" date shows. Does Yukino like MAXX coffee as much as Hachiman? I thought she got it because she was thinking of Hachiman but when Hachiman got her a drink, he got yet another MAXX coffee because he thought she got one because she wanted one. I'll call this the known situation, devoid of guessing. Back in season 1 when Yui lost a game to Yukino and had to buy drinks, she was going to get what Yukino wanted, was it strong black coffee or was it something like strawberry milk? Since Yukino remains a closed book, I thought she was lamenting the coffee because she picked it out without thinking. Then she tried to pawn the unopened can to Hachiman who only accepted it when he got her a replacement can, which remained unopened. "He means well but doesn't he know what I like?" Or lovelorn Yukino was lamenting her missing loved one through a can of coffee... photos are portable and she could carry it around in her favorite book but MAXX coffee is so much more symbolic... so she was unwilling to open it but when she got a new can from her lover, she was so overwhelmed by feelings of love that she could hardly think of doing something so base as "drinking" it. |
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