Forum - View topicANNCast - Chewing the Fate
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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konqueror
Posts: 129 |
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DmonHiro
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While you might argue that Kariya didn't start off mature enough to be a parent, but anyone who was willing to go through 1 year of torture then participate din a deadly battle out of which you know you will not make it out alive is a much better parent then Tokiomi who basically saw his daughters as tools. You COULD argue that he didn't know how Sakura was being treated, but not once did he show any indication that he even cared enough to check. Hell, Kotomine would have made a better parent.
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konqueror
Posts: 129 |
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Start with the Zero anime and not UBW anime? Really? REALLY? What kind of fatefan says that good lord...
despair.jpg |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Man, how did you guys ever get a now decade-plus-old reputation as exclusionary, dogmatic group-thinkers that make no one ever want to check out the Mooniverse? |
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Purpadude
Posts: 14 |
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I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I found Kiritsugu's ending to be really moving. He was grateful for saving just one life from disaster, and that's something he never appreciated before. It was always about doing morality math and subtracting lives to save the Most Possible, and he realizes in the end that the math doesn't even work. He killed more people than he saved.
I started Fate/Zero a few months ago, and just recently caught up to UBW as it's airing. Knowing what I do about the characters as a result has only improved my experience the current show -- in fact, I don't think it would have interested me otherwise. |
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navycherub
 Posts: 233 |
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I'm not trying to defend Tokiomi, but instead point out that Kariya is not a well-adjusted or generally healthy person either, and as we saw from the events of Fate even if they were his kids they would never be truly divorced from the magi world (and may just end up completely unprepared to handle that reality when it comes like he was).
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Videogamep
 Posts: 564 Location: CA |
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This kind.  Even if it can work as a stand alone anime, UBW is better if you've seen Zero. There are enough callbacks (Illya's flashbacks, Saber's reaction to hearing about Kiritsugu, etc.) that you'll enjoy it more if you've seen Zero. I always recommend that people watch the Deen anime (which isn't nearly as bad as people say) and Zero before UBW.
I don't know. Must be one of those weird rumors that just pop up occasionally. 
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Sahmbahdeh
Posts: 712 |
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As a Type-Moon/Fate franchise fan, I believe I am qualified to say I cannot stand most fans of the Fate franchise. It pains me to be lumped in with most of them.
As far as the podcast itself goes, I think it was very interesting to hear all this analysis and interesting information. Great stuff! Last edited by Sahmbahdeh on Fri May 15, 2015 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Knoepfchen
 Posts: 698 |
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I'm really looking forward to listening to this one. But even without having listened yet, Hope is completely right about Kariya. His story is tragic, and I do feel for him, but he's no more of a hero than any of the other masters are. When he spoiler[strangles Aoi], every aspect of his story and self comes together and falls into place that, if we're honest, has already been established long before he "snaps". It's one of my favorite scenes in the series, because it's both his and Kirei's defining moment, making them both realize who they are and where they are coming from, which is one of the series' strongest and most interesting themes, after all. I don't argue that his feelings for Sakura are heartfelt and honest, but that's just what makes his misguided efforts all the more tragic and beautiful. If he was this poor, noble guy with nothing but good intentions and a pure heart, his arc wouldn't be one of the show's highlights (of which there are many). No such thing as heroes, remember?
Sayaka is a different case along the lines of the same ideas and reflections. Also, I really, really like F/Z's ending. Urobuchi is just so much better at endings than exposition. |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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I would argue that's one it's flaws, that it's not nearly as newbie-friendly as the Zero adaptation. To me, the Fate universe is at peak when it describes its its setting, rules and mythology, but all of that is absent from the UBW anime.
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Knoepfchen
Posts: 698 |
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But he never was a white knight in the first place. He wants to believe he is. Urobuchi teases us to believe he is (for a while, at least). Kiritsugu wanted to be a hero of justice until he discovered there are no heroes and decided to shoot anything that could cross him.
The biggest tragedy lies in the fact that Kariya destroys himself. The grail/bugs/sacrifice are just the means to that end, but it's his very own, personal decisions that doom him and the people he (thinks he) loves. Just like Kiritsugu (almost) does, although in a very different way. He doesn't change anything for the better for Sakura. He ends up spoiler[murdering] the one person he would have died for (and I believe him that he would, in a second). It's cruel, ironic, and beautiful. It's why Urobuchi has become the name everyone has to slap on their mediocre product without realizing that twists and gore alone don't make good storytelling. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, not although but because he is so flawed. He's still likable and someone to root for amidst all those deeply flawed and broken characters (to an extent - there are limits). He wants to do right. He's just too busy lying to himself to actually go through with it. Which makes him so much more interesting (and, in my mind, relatable) than a white knight could be. |
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_Archer_
Posts: 110 |
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Very nice podcast. As said in it, there's just too much to talk about in the series that frankly just made me want to hear more. Hearing Hope's view on the ending made me feel the same as Aidan in that I'm too tied down to the lore to get such an opinion on the conclusion so I enjoyed hearing it. Otherwise... Aidan really said a lot of things I felt a similar view about, the feast of kings being the most noticeable in regards to how all the views come together. He did delve into a lot of details about Saber's back story that I don't believe even the Zero novel covers and are only mentioned in the Fate route, which is probably nice for the people who don't know about it.
Something I was surprised Aidan didn't clarify considering he mentioned the cut berserker scene was that the "20 second" segment about Diarmuid's past was also in the light novel in more detail, hence it being in the show as Zac was curious about it. Master's often have dreams about their servants memories, and these scenes were poorly handled in the anime, Waver's dream about Rider more so since it's pretty much all monologue and helps with understanding the words in his last exchange with Gilgamesh. F/Z really did cut out a lot of scenes though. The most noticeable ones being the Lancelot one, Maiya's back story, the Enkidu monologue, and Tokiomi's one regarding his decisions as a father for both Sakura and RIn. This is something the new UBW anime has handled much better IMO (some will probably disagree with me) but even it has still cut some scenes. |
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Doodleboy
Posts: 296 |
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Zac these are pretty worn memes by now but I wonder if you knew that in the original run of the series.The episode where Kiritsugu kills his father was aired on Children's day, Natalia's death was aired on Mother's day, and then Kiritsugu kills his daughter and wife on father's day...
You know, just in case those episodes weren't over the top enough for you. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5449 Location: Iscandar |
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Very fun and engaging podcast. This conversation made me remember how well Fate/Zero was made. I am not very knowledgeable of the Type-Moon universe, but I found Fate/Zero very accessible, and it made sense. I am not a big fan of Fate/Zero's ending, but I hope Fate/stay night: UBW offers some closure to both animes.
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