Forum - View topicNEWS: CMX Licenses Crayon Shin-chan
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
AstroNerdBoy
 Posts: 413 Location: Denver, CO |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
By "translation," are you refering to just the English dub or the English subtitles (which *should* be accurate)? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
TSC
Posts: 38 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
English dub. In the English dub they have some American jokes because they think the japanese jokes/ references won't get across as well. In a manga, it's easier to translate the japanese jokes/ references with side notes. Me,? I think it's not going to be that bad. Ten Ten seems to be only manga with editing(and lately I found that the latest one coming out is rated Mature.....). All the other manga they done seem alright. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10429 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That's not technically accurate. ComicsOne folded, and one of it's creditors (their printer in fact) picked up most of their licenses and several of their staff. DrMaster (the printer), is not the same company. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15358 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
TSC: They also edited out a manji from The Devil Does Exist.
tempest: It's almost the same company. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
TSC
Posts: 38 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Didn't read that one so wouldn't know. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Because you were there & heard they said NO CENSORSHIP on this one, right? I saw vol 46 at Mitsuwa after I left the con, so there is a lot of Shin chan Their issue is do they do a fresh translation unflipped as they plan, or do they go more for Funi's re-write since it seems so popular Send them your opinion. They want it. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15358 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCS:
The labels on their books also claimed that the releases were authentic to the Japanese versions, even though they weren't; so excuse anyone for being skeptical.
If they did, they would have released TenTen uncut by now. 
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Like MediaBlasters claiming that one title was totally uncut & uncensored when they removed-was it shouta or lolita?- & then excused it with they don't consider "uncut & uncensored" to be selling points?
People have been screaming about Tenjo Tenge forever. All the companies change stuff thery don't like. Look at Viz. Look at ADV. Look at Funimation. Forgive them for having the same attitude as 4Kids & whoever did Kimba & Gigantor & Speed Racer & Astro that they could pick up these foreign cartoons & do with it as they will. DC is VERY MUCH in that mold. Why do you think the independents sprang up over the years? Artist who didn't like the way Marvel & DC did things went with the independants so they could retain some freedom about their characters. Why on earth WOULDN'T DC think it could slash & remake "TenTen" into what they felt their audience needed? How much else have they "butchered" so much worse than the other companies? ADV changed the gender of more than one character, you know. I was there that year when all the Tenge fans almost bull-headedly kept whining about the edits. What's done is done. If anything, vent your ire on the Japanese creator who ok'd the cuts to his own work. basically whoring himself out in the name of being read here. Get over it. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15358 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh:
Viz was forced to keep the stuff it didn't like, because no one was buying it, while ADV was forced to sell off most of the stuff they changed. As for FUNimation, aside from the DBZ first season picture screw-ups, most of their changes stem from the a-hole record companies, and not them. CMX, OTOH, keeps trying to change the rating on the cover while not actually including any unedited content.
The reason is because they didn't actually evaluate the market.
Go to the edited threads on AOD, and find out for yourself. Plus they're total dicks to Alan Moore.
If they were really done with TenTen, then CMX wouldn't keep trying to sell it as something else.
Why? He was led by DC to believe that it would get more money and exposure that way. If DC can't deliver their side of the bargain, then it's clearly their bad judgement, and not the one made by Oh! Great.
Why should I get over it? I don't want a series I might buy being dumbed down, because the publisher chose to follow their expample. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
??? Viz was forced to change the rape scene in Descendants of Darkness & turn the cross into a general rock blob in Full Metal Alchemist? Or you mean no one's buying Full Metal Alchemist & Descendants of Darkness? ADV wa forced to sell Kimera which they dubbed with a female actress over the male Nobuo Tobita on the Japanese side? It seemed to me they abandoned Tactics by their own choice, cutting their losses & selling the anime to Manga & the manga to Tokyo Pop. Why, when the had the rights to the anime, did they change the gender of Sugino? Their failed attempt at manga was likely due to their diving in with 50 titles rather than treading cautiously
As one of the BIGGEST comic book publishers in the US, I believe DC knows their audience pretty damned well. The problem is they assumed manga fans are just like the fans of American comics which they discovered very quickly wasn't true. It's actually pathetically typical of the American attitude-that the world revolves around us. At 2 different panels, (Broccoli &, I believe CMX) 2 different guys stood up & asked WHY all these titles were Japanese? Are the Japanese better or something? Why not get some American titles? (I steered the guy at Broccoli to check out Tokyo Pop which has a large OEL line & he hemmed & hawed which sort of confirmed my original opinion he was a plant not unlike the American animators who used to hit the old Tech TV board yrs ago complaining about the lousy quality of Japanese anime & how it was stealing food from the tables of American workers)
That thread I saw was pathetically short of edits. I have the 2 ADV Tactics & I have the first from Tokyo pop & there are HUGE amounts of differences, including the fact ADV shrank the print size so there's about a quarter-inch border around the pages (to prevent cutting off the panels? Who knows?) Tokyo Pop is re-printing Sorcerer Hunters &, since I have both versions, I can tell you there are changes in those also none the least being auhor comments. I also have more than enough ADV dvds & can tell yu there are numerous times the subtitles & the English dialogue have absolutely squat to do with one another. Try Generator Gawl. Saiyuki. Some of the changes are stupid like changing time periods (say the subtitle says 3 days, but in English the dub has a week. Why?) I loved ADV at panel saying they sat down with the Japanese makers of Ghost Stories trying to figure out how to sell that title to the American audience. You know, the one they threw out the Japanese script entirely on? I really don't see the Japanese saying sure, gay-bash all you want to sell this title. Sorry, I find the English dub detestible for the huge amount of lesbian "jokes" which are as funny as a train wreck. Not to mention why the hell are American fans so hot on this topic? Japan sure doesn't seem to care about what they do to our stuff.
What's done is done is a common phrase in English which means one can't change the past. It had squat to do with suggesting CMX was finished with Tenjo Tenge. They bought it, they're going to release it. It be stupid of them to alter their treatment considering the titles has already started at that prior rating. On the other hand, I'm reading several of their titles, including the Mature rated Young Magician, Seimaden (yaoi undertones) From Eroica With Love (70's title with a flaming gay lead character.), THe Devil Does Exist, Recipe for Gertrude.(Was sword of Darkness CMX?) Obviously these titles are more interesting to me than Tenjo Tenge. I have the anime & frankly, there are many, many other fighting titles I prefer. As I recall from last year when I sat in on the Del Rey panel, they announced they were editing the cover of Air Gear Vol 2 or 3 because the girl's skirt was too short for comfort.
Are they not delivering? Are the sales of that title that bad? Don't know since I only have Vol 1 of Tenjo Tenge & decided it wasn't for me. Considering I have over 2000 volumes of manga, there's obviously far too much other stuff out there that I prefer reading to Tenjo Tenge. Seimaden, From Eroica & Young Magician are excellent so, for my money, CMX is doing ok.
But you apparently aren;t buying it, so it doesn't matter. They made a mistake. They seemed to have learned their lesson. If you're so perfect you never make mistakes then schedule your news event promoting your walking on water or raising the dead. I really don't think what CMX did with Temjo Tenge rivals the mistakes made by other companies. Look at New Coke. How about thoses Japanese auto makers who were hiding flaws in their cars in the name of protecting their image? How 'bout those exploding tires a few years back? I don't think CMX editing Tenjo Tenge even ranks the level of the guy who put out edited versions of Shakespeare & The Bible (because women & children were too delicate to handle the sex & violence) that we've retained the word bowdlerize to signify censoring material. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15358 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCS:
No, but their recent releases of I"s appear to be unedited. It probably was simply just a popularity thing, with Akamatsu happening to hit it big here before Katsura; but when push came to shove, Viz was obligated to keep their manga uncut, in order to appease the hardcore fans who were the only ones willing to buy said titles.
You can still hear the Japanese track, so that example doesn't count.
Technically, they haven't "failed", since they still publish certain titles. But the example just proves that their attempt to make their previous licenses as generic as possible, instead of allowing them to stand out hurt them.
They know middle-aged comic book geeks well, not teen readers.
It's more like they assumed that manga fans are like fans of Comic Code comics, and not like fans of Frank Miller comics.
No, they just deal better with issues and situations which are more relevant to this generation than American comics.
What's hurting American animators is them being wasted on talking animal films.
But at least ADV's edits still don't hurt the story as much as CMX's edits.
It probably wasn't that popular in Japan, either, and they dumped it on ADV to make their money back.
Sometimes, they do care. See Miyazaki on "Warriors of the Wind"...
I recognized the point, which is why I intentionally made the comment, because CMX is clearly trying to change the past without actually changing the present.
The fact that they had to up the age rating indicates that's the case..
But it does matter for a series I might buy.
How exactly have they learned their lesson? They're still basically trying to sell it to the same audience while convincing them that the content is more in tune with the intent of the author, when that's clearly not the case.
Only if you compare it to 4kids and One Piece.
Well, the difference is you can get Shakespeare and The Bible on-line for free, because they're in the public domain. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
All your complaints seem to be Tenjo Tenge, Tenjo Tenge, Tenjo Tenge, Tenjo Tenge.
Have you tried From Eroica? It's lots of fun. I think every copy of Young Magician has that mature readers sticker on it. I love You Higuri's art & we get color pages all the time in Seimaden. Recipe For Gertrude was cute. So they removed a swastica from The Devil Does Exist, it's a great read. But you're still whining about ONE title. And the FMA issue was this last year, wasn't it? Greed was originally shown on a cross-shaped chunk of rock, but Viz, for whatever reason felt the need to turn it into more of a triangular shape of rock. obscuring the original cross shape.
Do you go to comic shops instead of bookstores like Barnes & Noble? I do all the time & there are lots of teens & 20-somethings there. Comic-con devotes it's last day to being Lids' Day every year & there are always lots of kids. There were several toddlers there this yr including a cute little thing dressed like what I thougt was a rabbit, but my teen informed me is from a game & more like a cabbit. And DC is very aware of that child market. hence their editing Tenjo Tenge to try to appeal to a young market.
I'll likely bever see the end to By the Sword, Fantasyland, Gadiroki, Quantum Mistake or any of the other dozen titles I was readung so they failed.
Yeah, because Frank Miller never worked for DC It must have been his evil twin who re-did Batman for DC a few yrs back-was it Dark Knight Returns & Batman Year 1? I first noticed him doing Daredevil for Marvel yrs ago.
It was a school ghost story title. Why bother to license it? NOT TO MENTION if you bother to listen to cast commentaries, Kira Vincent Davies said several of them wanted to do somehting like that on the Steel Angel Kurumi OVA commentary YEARS ago so it's an idea they've been floating for awile. Not all that diff from the fact Generator Gawl is pretty much an entirely different story in Japanese than it was in English.
Changing the gender of a major character doesn't hurt? Haruka's friend Sugino is a white tengu while Haruka is a black tengu (the dif being white tengu are former humans). Sugino is horribly jealous of his wife Muu, a little demon with a big head & small body that hangs out with Kantarou all the time. Not that ADV called them tengu-ADV called them goblins. And ADV didn't bother with the color page up front Tokyo pop gave us. And there's always Hirameki which, from what I've read, decided to try to get a larger audience turning the yaoi Animamundi game into a more PG 13 game by altering the art to hide the offensive body parts-unlike the hardcore Absolute Obedience Doesn't mean I don't play it for what there is. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
For folks in the manga market know, if a title like 'Tenjo Tenge' was left un-edited and consequently aimed to an older teen and up market, would it make money?
I can somewhat see where a publisher is coming from in editing a series like 'Tenjo Tenge'. When you drop it into American culture you've got a title with 17+ content (harder edged physical/sexual violence) combined with a writing level that seems decently sophomoric (This occurs somewhat frequently in anime as well) . I know when a person is accustomed to the style/genre realties of Japanese entertainment, you look past the angsty, heavy-handed material that comes with a lot of Japanese writing, but is it realistic to expect any sizable amount of older American comic fans to? From my own experience, I've seen more than a few comic fans pick up a title like 'Battle Vixens' expecting a good dose of fun T&A, only to give it a quizzical 'This is supposed to be serious?'. In a market where writers/artists like Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Grant Morrison and Frank Miller usually define 'mature' material, it seems like the often soapy/melodramatic style of titles like 'Tenjo Tenge' can leave it in a market 'limbo', so to speak. A little too violent/sexualized for the younger fans, a little too turgid for older ones. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15358 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCS:
No, I don't care about the adventures of hippies in drag, thanks.
So does TenTen, even though it's clearly got more risque content than its label would suggest.
Too bad CMX hates including omake pages.
I can get "cute" elsewhere.
Yes, that sucks, but FMA is still mostly uncut.
I do, too, and the only teens I've seen are the ones trying to rip off the joint when the owner's not looking. The 20-somethings are the ones working behind the counter.
Comic Con is more than just a comic con, hence why you see kids there.
How is a manga where students beat each other up into a bloody pulp, but without crotch shots, appropriate for children? If DH took out the sex from Gantz, would that make it any more appropriate?
They're just re-building.
They probably got dumped with it, when they were trying to buy a different title.
I'm guessing they were joking.
I can't comment on that one.
You can be jealous without gender mattering.
The Japanese alter the art, too. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wow.
SO what's that last couiple pages in pretty much all the Seimaden issues? Where Ms Higuri commented her staff wanted to dive all the way into yaoi? Or where we see the cast drawn in different styles of clothes? Or the pages at the end of Young Magician where the author is going on & on about blood? And all those little side panels in Devil DOes Exist where the author's discussing her characters (The lead is based on Hyde or Gackt...I'd have to go back & look)
Wow! I've been wrong all this time? I thought it was a title written in the late '70's/early '80's (hence the Saturday Night Fever/disco clothes) about a flamming gay Brittish art thief & his interactions with the minimalist Iron Major Klaus.
But a male Sugino being jealous when his wife is always with Kantarou is the more natural joke.
Check it out yourself. Ms. Davis said she use to do it with her sibling all the time & had asked the various directors about doing it with an anime--like bad Hong Kong dubs. That means they were probably looking for a title to mess up-maybe Tactics which might be why they passed on releasing it although they are handling the dub for Manga (& we're getting dubtitles. not actual subtitles. )
Media Blasters gives me yaoi subtitle only for list $20 which means I'm paying about $12 for 3-4 eps. I'm payiung much more per dvd for Ghost Story which means I'm payiung ADV to butcher the title. Taking a few panty-shots out of Tenjo Tenge really changed the story all that much. more than changing Sugino's gender? You are damning CMX for their treatment of 1 title. Hells Bells--those extended warranties one buys for things only cover a percentage. I had a TV where the corner turned magenta & called on it-only 75% od the scree is covered so it;s ok if the corner is messed up. Listened to a similar arguemnt over a Nintendo hand-held-the cutomer was complaining the screen didn't work in one corner-tough. One frigging title out of a couple dozen. As for the title in question on this thread, they're really between a rock & a hard place since Shinchan has been marketed once before with a "straight" translation, & now has become popular with a completely screwed-up dub for the anime. Fans of the anime on Adult Swim will likely feel anything other than Funi's dub is censorship, but die-hard fans will sceam murder over changing it. The only answer would be one of TP's ani-manga they've done. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group