Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Pornography for Women
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liannesentar
Posts: 29 |
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You don't happen to live in Germany, do you?  Germany's shoujo market is quite a bit different from America/Canada's--shoujo smut and josei porn are a significantly bigger slice of the market over there. It's interesting that you mention Kasane Katsumoto, since only in the past 5 years or so has she been known to write josei porn--she used to make her money writing platonic/slightly romantic love stories between teenage boys for shoujo/shounen ai magazines like Asuka and Ciel. An American/Canadian would know her better as the mangaka of Hands Off!, my personal favorite manga ever. Her porn IS quite graphic...but the genre itself can explain that, since Deep Sex and the like ran in josei magazines whereas Mayu Shinjo's stuff ran in shoujo magazines.
You see, that's exactly why I think shoujo smut/josei porn need more discussion--because when people think "erotic stuff about a guy and a girl isn't special," they're generally thinking about "traditional" Western porn, which is almost entirely aimed toward males. Shoujo smut and josei porn are written by women and FOR women, and although a lot of the content seems similar to porn for men--there's only so many ways you can show straight sex, after all--the attitude, intention, etc. are very different. Some people think porn is inherently anti-feminist because it objectifies women, but by "porn" they're often thinking of Western porn and its focus on female objectification. They don't realize that Japan has split its porn industry almost down the middle and makes porn specifically for men and then specifically for women, and the female porn is generally trying to do the OPPOSITE of de-humanizing the women. Is THAT anti-feminist? It at least opens up the debate anew. Shoujo smut and, to a lesser extent, josei porn are considered incredibly edgy in a lot of places, if only because it's porn written by women for women where the female character often relinquishes power to a dominating man. I think this might explain why very few titles are licensed in America, where a Puritanical history has influenced a lot of censorship and self-censorship of edgy media, but Germany gets a fair share--Europe is generally thought of as more sexually liberated, as least publically. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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That was...unexpected. Here I expected an article discussing yaoi/shonen-ai and "romantic" heterosexual relationships since some female fans seem to dig both concepts. The article's title should have been something like "Women's Roles in Pornography". Regardless of inaccurate titling, I have to say I don't get the rape thing. The idea of forcing a girl into hawt sex0r doesn't turn me on, and the idea that she's going to eventually get really horny and turned on is unrealistic: actual rape is a psyche-scarring trauma that can leave a woman feeling helpless and unable to cope with what happened to her, and the experience NEVER leaves their mind. Rapists aren't trying to make a girl realize she wants it but is trying to deny herself the pleasure; they're crazy not-so-nice-people who want to get off on the feeling of overpowering a woman.
Western porn, as dull and by-the-numbers as it is, almost never portrays a scene of rape. I mean sure, most of it doesn't even turn ME on (and I'm part of the target demographic), but it's not like those crappy hentai where the girl is being forced into uncomfortable sexual situations. I HATE tentacle porn because not only is it not erotic (does...does anyone actually get horny from a, uh, amorphous alien or whatever thrusting its tentacles into some high school girl's orifices?), it depicts women as helpless, walking sex toys that ought be used in any way some pig of a man sees fit. |
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Kyaa the Catlord
Posts: 300 |
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Well, relinquishing control can be very sexy, regardless of which sex you are. I can understand a "near-rape" fantasy, but an actual rape... unsexy.
I don't understand tentacle porn either. Heck, I don't even get the giant phalluses in uncut Kite.... |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Oh, no, I'm not saying being dominated can't be a turn-on; I just get queasy when a character has tears streaming down her face and she's being victimized because some jackoff wanted to prove how strong he is next to her.
The only cool tentacle was the one from Maniac Mansion as far as I'm concerned... |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2340 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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You know, I have seen horror films such as The Hills Have Eyes (original and remake) and Last House on the Left, both of which are Craven-laden (bad pun). Personally, I didn't like these movies myself, particularly since each featured a woman being raped by a backwards hick, so I can't bring myself to watch them anymore. Same with Deliverance, despite the dueling banjos, I can't look past the one pig squeal scene, so that's out. Even that South Park episode that played it for laughs (somthing in comedy you do NOT do) made me sick; I just wanted to watch Cartman at PF Chang's!
Anyway, before I leave another tangent, I looked at these Wes Craven films, compared them to modern horror/slasher flicks and noticed something: there is not much difference. We all know that horror already has sexual overtones: girl commits adultery, encounters creature, gets gutted or trapped in a garage door. Hell, I've taken a course in Gothic Fiction and thought I was accidentally in Women's Literature; everything in it involves female sexuality and/or repression. Or Frankenstein. Anyway, when I saw slasher films, I noticed how it involved a creature, usually male, stalking and chasing a victim, most often young women, eventually catching them so that they can be creatively killed. If you compare it to Hill Eyes, you notice there is not much difference between killing the girl and raping her; each time, the killer has his way with the victim to do whatever he pleases, regardless of the victim's feelings. And, often, they will use something phallic-shaped like a knife to finish the job. Frankly, I can't see any difference. It makes you think. Is this supposed to depict the horror of rape in general? Or does it serve as a secret perverse fantasy that is trying to be distilled upon the audience? So, in this light, one can view hentai rape as either commentary of the horrors of being raped by an unknown power (eg. America dropping the bombs, I read this idea somewhere), or a reflection on the sexualization of women as a perverse escape fantasy. I'm not sure where I'm headed with this, I kinda lost track back at Gothic Fiction, sorry. Hopefully I got something across. Believe it or not, I'm a guy. Quick question: can you do something about MMORPG's? About how some would play the game in a different gender? Always wondered about that. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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prime, you know what REALLY turned me off? That wave of "torture porn" slasher flicks. That sub-sub-genre tried to sexualize the notion of brutal murder and gore, and that just gives me cause for concern. I never gave a second thought to seeing Jason or Michael Myers stab someone a gazillion times just because he was on a killing spree; but to try to turn it into something erotic? Squick...
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prime_pm
Posts: 2340 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Yes, I realized that. It's hard to watch these types of films anymore after figuring out such notions. You start feeling guilty at some point, like Wes Craven was purposely waving his finger, making us all feel bad. Of course, it's hard to tell with him; Wishmaster sure didn't help much.
The one that started the whole thing, of course, was Black Christmas, despite John Carpenter popularizing it in Halloween. The whole thing revolved around an unknown stalker suffocating sorority sisters with plastic bags; that's pretty much S&M right there without the safe words. It's available on Youtube for free, along with the original When A Stranger Calls. |
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2633 |
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You always come up with interesting topics
Anyways the only thing pornographic I have seen is I watched a few clips of very old porn (maybe from the 1920's-1930's I don't remember) at the Sex Museum in NY (if you are in NY it's actually an interesting experience) Personally I have no interest in porn live or animated. I think if I did watch it it would just be for the laughs but there are plenty of other things would rather watch more so unless someone shoves it in my face I am not going to make the effort to see it. I don't judge others for liking it, I just accept that people like different things. As for the whole rape thing I was going to go on a tangent how that is so wrong and disgusting (and I am sure I would be extremely disturbed by some of it) but then someone mentioned Scarlett O'hara and I realized I probably was not turned off by that scene as much as I should have been. Sure no one is getting tortured but that scene still involves rape even if it is by someone as charming as Rhett and Scarlett was happy about it afterward. And I am sure as far as women fantasies go they have fantasies about being "dominated" by a strong handsome man but I don't think real rape is pleasant like that at all. I think scenes like that send the wrong message. No means No and that's final. Of course I still love Gone with the Wind (book & movie) but it was made in 1939 and it has a lot of stuff in it that I would find completely unacceptable if it was made today. And just in case it is unclear I am a female commenter. 
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prime_pm
Posts: 2340 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Paula Guran wrote about erotic horror:
"Sex has always been a constant in horror -- Frankenstein's metaphors and innuendo; the veiled gothic desire of Dracula; the pulps unquenchable lust for blood and bosoms; Shirley Jackson's repressed sexuality; Anne Rice's sensuous vampires; Clive Barker's sexual imagery. In our culture today, the traditional equation of sex with danger and death is not only metaphorical, but a reality we confront constantly. As an integral horror metaphor or as an explicit evocation -- sex may have become as important to horror as the supernatural." I may have gone on about this topic a little too much, so I'm just going to stop after this post. |
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TsukasaElkKite
 Posts: 3961 |
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This article was fantastic.
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cetriya
 Posts: 156 Location: NJ |
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you know, I think that most of the reason that 'rape fantasies' excite so many woman is simply because we're still in a sexist society so our mind set is to let the man dominate and that woman should make the decision to have sex. Only the man has that power, so even if she really wanted to say 'yes' she isnt allowed to.
Sexism is even stronger out side the US so of course such manga sell well out side the us and japan. I never liked rape fantasy, never picked up Hot Gimmick and hate Mayo shinjo. when I say no, i'm not being sarcastic. |
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siken
Posts: 56 Location: Henrico |
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1: I liked both of the Hills Have Eyes movies (not saying I liked the rape scene but you can't expect some stupid sign to come up and be like "raping is going on be back in 5 min" xD), and it had a reason as to why he tried to rape her, it wasn't just for the pleasure. I think in the 2nd movie they explained it a lot better. 2: I never get why guys play female characters in MMORPGS nor why some females play guy characters. Most of the time when I ask they simply say they aren't gay its just for the stats etc etc I never really tried to imply the fact that they were gay, the stats never mattered.. it just seemed like they were hiding something. |
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Joichiro Nishi
Posts: 163 |
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It seems western women has a kind of rape fantasy too but in a diferent way
Vampires are a metaphore of rape and many Western women loves vampires. My aunt is a fangirl of Vampires and she said: "I hate the good guys in Vampire movies, Why Dracula has to die?" Many women like horror movies, teenage girls are a big audience of slasher movies. I think that Westerns and Japaneses are not so diferent, the big diference is that Westerns are more sutile with their fantasies and Japaneses don't care for human rights associations, they just want to make money. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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I almost feel guilty for saying this, but if they put up a sign or title card that said "Rape in progress. Gimme 5...actually, I'll probably have a smoke afterwards, so make it 10.", it would make me roffle hard.
Oh, and you know that "rape is how you say hi in Japan", yeah? 
But in all seriousness, actual rape isn't sexy and unless it's EFFECTIVELY played for laughs, it's almost never funny. Writing an effective humorous rape scene, of course, is something most people wouldn't touch with a 20-foot pole. |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Who says rape can't be funny? Imagine Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd. Why do you think they call him Porky?
-George Carlin |
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). I only skipped through some of her works at the book store and they seemed pretty explicit, probably more so than Mayu Shinjo 
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