Forum - View topicNEWS: Deadline: Ghost in the Shell Film Will Lose At Least US$60 Million
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Lostlorn Forest
 Posts: 544 Location: USA |
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I think you guys are confused here. No one said that movies with racial diversity fail. They said movies where characters are white-washed do poorer than movies that don't. Which isn't that true if you don't cherry-pick. Movies like Doctor Strange are successful because they're adequate in areas that people care about (marketing, script, brand name, etc). Your average moviegoer doesn't give a hoot about white-washing or source material. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I'm really not sure how you can bring up the diversity of Rogue One's cast as not being white-washed, but then ignore the immense diversity in the GiTS live-action casting. I mean, let's look at the 2017 GiTS cast: Scarlett Johansson (The Major) --- American Pilou Asbaek (Batou) --- Danish Takeshi Kitano (Aramaki) --- Japanese Juliette Binoche (Ouelet) --- French China Han (Togusa) --- Singaporean Lasarus Ratuere (Ishikawa) --- Fijian Yutaka Izumihara (Saito) --- Japanese Kaori Mamoi (Motoko's Mother) --- Japanese Danusia Samal (Ladriya) --- Kurdish/Polish Peter Ferdinando (Cutter) --- British Anamaria Marinca (Dahlia) --- Romanian Pete Teo (Tony) --- Malaysian I think it's ironic that the whole controversy focuses on just one character, when the entire cast is significantly more diverse than the source material it draws from. Anyways, I hope the movie fares better in China and Japan, it's an entertaining film that does a lot more right than wrong, and it's a shame that all of the studio's efforts seem to be mired in overblown controversy. |
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Shaone
Posts: 21 |
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Well I just saw the movie last night and it exceeded my expectations (I had none going in). It borrowed themes from many storylines but it heavily relied on the first movie for most of its action sequences. For an anime/live action conversion I'd give it a B/B+ rating. I think the movie addressed the political whitewashing issue very well within the movie itself when the major met a certain person and it also reinforced one of Shirow's main themes on Ghosts in any Shell. Does the movie compete with the superhero drivel we're being with inundated with today? I'd argue, yes. Is it just another sci-fi action series? Yes, but it addresses the philosophical issues that Shirow brings up in his work and that's what we really wanted to see in the screen. It did it fairly well. I've waited a long time for a solid anime'live action film. Ghost in the Shell is respectable, not perfect, but the best thing we've seen so far.
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Having not watched the movie I can't tell, but according to the related ANNCast, the section 9 characters are hardly given anything to do, so even if they're racially diverse, it's about as worth bringing up as the background Asian characters in Last Airbender. And the thing with GiTS is that the Major herself, the main character- should have been casted as a Japanese -or at the very least Asian- actress, but was made white with the excuse of "star-power" and then given a borderline offensive backstory to justify it. |
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Kougeru
 Posts: 5533 |
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Maybe if they made a Ghost in the Shell movie instead of a Robocop one...
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IG
Posts: 60 |
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No she didn't have to be asian . Mokto body is fake it could been played by a mexican Even the original director said that the actor's race doesn't matter . This was a foreign remake there was no reason for the characters have to be Japanese . Unless now your going to say The Ring should been play by Japanese actors as well as Edge Tomorrow. You really can't compare t the Last Airbender movie. Because that was an american film and was heavily influenced by Chinese culture.( Which I agree the characters should been POc or asian. Because of the setting , and how the race was a big part of the character) |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2439 Location: Germany |
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@Kikaioh Fan4stic had a diverse (enough) cast too. No one cared though as you still need to make a strong film in the end. Marvel´s comic line is currently having the same problem. Audience appeal goes way way beyond having a colorful promo shot for your product.
Act 3 of GitS IS mindbogglingly racist, no way around that, but the writer and directors were the ones who buried this film. No one could have made this film work. Not event the technicality capable (yet miscast) cast. There, i said it. I AM a fan of Johansson, Asbaek and Kitano.... on paper. All of them could be replaced by someone else BUT the same direction and script would have lead to an identical reaction by me. I may have come prepared to dislike the film but the same goes for Shin Godzilla too and i really liked that one. Long story short: The biggest problem here that this is an Avi Arad production. Meaning that you all should be deathly afraid for his threatened MGS film. The same song and dance we are having now will be repeated, just without the Race Wars. His Venom movie (where do i start) is up next. Oh god... PS: The Avengers were a non-property before 2012 and only the lead-ins IR 1+2 truly turned a profit for the MCU. Look at them now! Dito for Suice Squad. DC´s critical aggregate is now even tipple rotten (i love them), yet that film broke the piggy bank. Just look up the Harley costume sales in 2016. GitS being a C-list foreign property or anime being niche (it is) was thus never the main problem. Current US comics don´t really sell either, simple as that. Last edited by residentgrigo on Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Whether Oshii was okay with the casting is completely irrelevant. He seemed happy with the movie when he was toured around the set, that obviously was no guarantee for its quality. And most importantly, the issue here is the lack of representation for racial minorities and the lack of opportunities in Hollywood for Asian-American actors
Source. I'd really reccommend checking that interview since it's very poignant about how wrong it was not only to make that casting choice but also to try and justify it with the twist at the end -which arguably made the whole thing go from frustrating to borderline offensive- |
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residentgrigo
Posts: 2439 Location: Germany |
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Addendum: CrowLia´s link is a must read. I sourced it too in a past article. Oshii´s GitS 2 (8,5/10) was also historical bomb for the medium of anime. It and Steamboy (6/10) basically killed international / big budget anime and what is Oshii supposed to say? Especially if i consider that he is a Japanese businessman who´s statements can hurt IG with public remarks. The producers also flew him in and winded and dined him! He may even like the film on personal level too but come on.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The Fate of the Furious right after this one too. We'll see how well that movie does compared to Ghost in the Shell very soon.
That answer's simple: Someone who wanted more of that Transformers money.
There's a third option too: Create a new group of fans. That's what happened with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, though I suppose if you look at it from another way, the MCU itself has become a trusted brand, which allowed Disney to adapt more obscure stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy (which has a similarly retro-futuristic look reminiscent of the 80's) and Ant-Man.
Because some of us want anime to be more popular than it currently is. That will result in increased budgets and increased workforce, leading to increased diversity of storytelling in our anime, as well as the industry becoming more financially stable. I was in a discussion thread for another niche hobby (even more so than anime) about what people could do to make it more popular. When I brought up that I've been in some hobbies where people are deliberately trying to keep it niche, they couldn't comprehend it, in a "Why would anyone want to do that?" kind of way. |
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IG
Posts: 60 |
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[quote="CrowLia"]Whether Oshii was okay with the casting is completely irrelevant. He seemed happy with the movie when he was toured around the set, that obviously was no guarantee for its quality. And most importantly, the issue here is the lack of representation for racial minorities and the lack of opportunities in Hollywood for Asian-American actors
[q So what ?Sure I would be happy if they be more asian in films . But it doesn't mean american remakes has to be played by a asian actors . My point wasn't rather a film is good or not . My point was just because a foreign material how different race. Doesn't mean they need to be same race here .Actually Oshii opinion is more higher since he direct original in the first place . Meaning I think he would know if the character's race is important to the character or not.The point was she didn't need to be play by asian actor. Saying that this was an exclusive asian role is silly.The asian thing is another story . White people make over 60 % percent population . While asians only make 5-6 percent population . Japanese also is only 2 million over 300 million in the USA . If people want more asian american films . They should make films with their roles in mind . That s how Tyler Perry did . No one was interested in his film . He made , and wrote themselves . They were successes,, no one is going to hand you anything. You have to make your own |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5996 |
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Considering how overrated Titanic and Avatar are Alita might make some money doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a quality film especially with Robert Rodirguez directing it
If the comic book industry was never "that good in a general sense" it would've died in it's infancy. Instead of being something that's kicked around for generations and led to multiple media projects featuring many iconic comic characters. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I don't know about the ANNCast, but I would say that the Section 9 characters in the live-action GiTS had just as much to do as they did in the original 1995 film. Actually, I would say Aramaki plays an even bigger role in this live-action adaptation, as he actually take major actions of consequence in the movie, particularly towards the end of the film. As for the idea that the Major ought to have been cast as Japanese? I don't think she had to be, for a number of reasons. For one, there's nothing about her character's culture or disposition in the original GiTS properties that inherently makes her strictly "Japanese", besides her name at least --- and even regarding that, at the end of SAC she admits that "Motoko Kusanagi" apparently isn't her real name, but a pseudonym that she adopted (iirc, she doesn't actually remember her original identity from before being placed in a shell). Ghost in the Shell was also heavily influenced by Western sci-fi and philosophy, such as the psychological text "Ghost in the Machine" by Arthur Koestler, and the movie Blade Runner, which itself was a huge influence on a lot of anime back in the 80's and 90's. The 1995 film also is suggested to have taken place in Hong Kong, not in Tokyo, which at the time of the film's release was still under British rule. I don't recall where, but to my understanding Oshii mentioned in an interview that he felt over the course of the films that he had grown a strong sense for his own Japanese-ness (?), and that he felt the GiTS films were more European than Japanese (someone might have to confirm that though, it's been a while since I last saw the quote). I also don't agree with the suggestion that Japanese characters somehow ought to be cast by Asian American actors/actresses, largely because that assumes that race is somehow more important than culture when it comes to casting --- and I think particularly with Japanese characters, that doesn't quite gel. I say that because of my own experience studying Japanese culture and interacting with Japanese people over the years, who generally are uncomfortable when it comes to interacting with non-Japanese Asians, in large part due to their imperialist history in WWII. TBH (and I say this as an Asian-American myself), from what I've seen, Japanese people get along much, much better with White Westerners than they do with most of their Asian neighbors. That also ties into a lot of their history too, such as the cultural integration of Western philosophies during the Meiji Restoration, as well as their alliance with Germany during WWII, and also their subsequent occupation by the US afterwards. I mean, when you watch anime, and there's a foreign exchange student, 9/10 times they're going to be White people from the United States, Germany or Canada --- you don't very often see other races or nationalities, like Black people, or people from China or the Philippines, because of all that long-standing history. To my understanding, even Japanese-American actresses commenting on the GiTS white-washing controversy have admitted as much, that Japan really likes White people. So to me, it just seems awkward to suggest that non-Japanese Asian Americans would be more fit for the role, when Japanese people themselves would feel less comfortable about it. To put it more simply, just being Asian American doesn't mean you're more fit for a Japanese role -- I think you have to look more carefully at the cultural realities. Culture, I think, is more important to identity than race. And if we look at the demographic realities, I'm not sure Hollywood really had much of a talent pool to pull from for casting in this movie anyways. Even if they wanted a Japanese American for the role, they make up less than 1% (I think less than half a percent?) of the American population. And even Asian Americans as a whole are less than 6%. With White Americans being a little over 70% of the current population, it's not nearly so surprising that an actress with credentials like Scarlett Johansson, who already had a major lead role in a successful sci-fi movie, as well as blockbuster action film experience, would be chosen for the role. But even if you put demographics aside, if you really, really wanted the roles to be played by their original suggested racial/ethnic groups, that would suggest the characters in the movie would have to be Japanese --- at which point, it begs the question of why have a foreign adaptation in the first place, but also makes you wonder, how do you interpret ethnic faithfulness when it actually results in significantly LESS diversity in the end product? Turn your eyes to Japan, and they're a nation that's very comfortably nativist in their prevention of foreign immigration and integration. It's kind of ironic to think that this American film, which is significantly more diverse than its source material, is somehow comparatively subject to more claims of racism. That's my two cents at least. Looking at the bigger picture, it might have been more ideal to cast a Japanese American, but given demographic realities, and the nature of the source material and culture, I think it's perfectly understandable why Scarlett Johansson landed the role, and the whole controversy seems to be a bit ways shallow to me, and not necessarily attentive to all the factors at play. Boiling it down to a question of "race" I think really oversimplifies the various realities of the situation.
Wait, what? The third act is racist? How? |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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That's because Shin Godzilla is a witty satire on Japanese politics and bureaucracy that happens to have Godzilla in it. |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
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This movie looks awesome. I think we are going to see it this weekend. I've been working such weird hours (and days) so it's been hard to make time for it. I'm really looking forward to it.
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