Forum - View topicREVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica the Movie Part 3: Rebellion
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2541 |
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I agree fully TarsTarkas. Maybe, as some have hinted, the team wanted to get a latent yuri element into Homura and Madoka's relationship? Some fans love that. Anyway, if the 4th movie doesn't pull off a miracle, I'll just pretend there were only two movies.
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Polycell
Posts: 4623 |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1461 |
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I didn't even know this is on sale already? D:
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jr240483
Posts: 4385 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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well its why some people dont like the ending. it gives the TV series ending a big time f..u sign and dump like like there's nobody's business. kinda the same way the evangelion movie did for its TV series ending.
just be glad they didn't try any of that crap for any of the nanoha series or movies otherwise i would be seriously pissed off. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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There is one thing for viewers to say that they didn't like that "Homura becomes evil" and then there is another to claim that there were NO hints in series that she was at least on a self destructive path, and certainly to claim that by the end of the movie that the so called twist was "out of nowhere" when pretty much every metaphorical sign along the route was yelling with a bullhorn that Homura is turning to the "Dark Side".
I can only guess that some viewers believe that "there Homura" is much more of a Heroic figure and she would not succumb to "her own weaknesses" in the face of the person she had self devoted a life time to. |
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FierceAlchemist
Posts: 75 |
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I've found in my many hours spent debating Rebellion with people that it's unlikely you'll change someone's mind if they didn't enjoy the movie. However, you can make them concede on smaller points like "Homura was out of character in Rebellion!" After presenting the facts to them, that changes to "Why hasn't Homura moved on from obsessing over Madoka?" which in turn bring up a whole other line of conversation. That's what makes the debates worth having. |
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NorbieH
Posts: 40 |
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I though this was a late April release myself. I've got the last volume of KLK and Gundam: The Origin on preorder and I had my budget set up for the late April release. I hope those two other releases also don't get and earlier release than stated. But I've got no one else to blame than myself. But I'm just happy I didn't pull the trigger on the earlier release of Rebellion that came without a dub. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5871 Location: Virginia, United States |
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In the TV series, Homura always treated Madoka with respect. Homura tried to change many external things to reduce temptation, but she always allowed Madoka the choice. The devil Homura is the exact opposite of this. Madoka has no choice. She is mind wiped and her powers hidden from her. What did devil Homura get. For one thing, she didn't get the Madoka she knew, she didn't get the Madoka who knew all the things Homura had done for her. What devil Homura has is a stranger who looks like Madoka. For me the fatal flaw in Rebellion was the final battle with the Kyubeys in Homura's egg. You had a Homura willing to lose Madoka forever and willing to suffer for eternity in isolation, to protect Madoka and her creation from the Kyubeys. That Homura is nothing like the devil Homura that comes after. That is why i said the devil Homura comes out of nowhere. The devil Homura throws away heaven, throws away spending an eternity with Madoka and all their friends, for a world that doesn't respect Madoka, and a Madoka who doesn't even know all the things they all went through. Is that even relatable. The writers failed in Rebellion because they made Homura too good, too honorable, and as in the TV series, she is still Madoka's very best friend. You cannot even squeeze a devil Homura out of that. I was willing to suspend disbelief for a insane Homura that cracked under the machinations of the Kyubeys, but after the battle in the egg, the writers had bricked and mortar'd that pathway up, threw up electrified razor wire on top, and laid mines behind. A Homura that would be willing to lose Madoka forever and suffer an eternity of torment for it, would not have done the things that devil Homura did. As Vizzini's favorite word, INCONCEIVABLE. |
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Emperor Fred
Posts: 32 Location: Ottawa, ON |
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While I'd have to agree that no one in the Madoka Magica dub really manages to achieve this, I'd say that actresses like Monica Rial, Luci Christian, Carrie Savage and a handful of others manage to knock "moe-voice" out of the park fairly regularly in dubs these days. For others it can be hit-and-miss, but they usually manage to do an admirable job despite, which is why I like Madoka Magica's dub. |
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FierceAlchemist
Posts: 75 |
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I wouldn't say all the ways Homura treated Madoka in the TV show were respectful. Remember how she insults Madoka on several occasions because of her actions (How stupid could you possibly be?!). Now it's anger out of love, frustration because of how much she wants to protect Madoka, but still not what I would define as respectful. Homura's a very human character, with all the good and bad that comes with it. As for the battle in the egg, this is coming right off Homura realizing that she's the witch that's created this barrier (something she described as "unforgivable" and "cowardly" earlier in the movie). Plus her discussions with Kyubey when she was alive have helped them determine who the Law of Cycles is and trapped her. So Homura decides that the most effective way of stopping Kyubey's plan is to witch out and have her friends kill her. Not only will this destroy the barrier, it will ease Homura's enormous suicidal guilt over failing Madoka yet again and getting her caught up in this mess. But things don't go according to plan. The others save her even though Homura is pleading with them to let her die. It's only when Madoka comes into the realm of Homura's despair and tells her never to give up that she cries and changes her mind. And what does she say after that? "I'm sorry. I'm so spineless. I wanted to see you one more time. And if I had to go so far as to betray that wish.... Yes, I knew I could shoulder any sin. No matter what I became, I knew I'd be fine with it. As long as I could have you by my side." Madoka asks Homura if she's afraid and she responds "No I'm fine. I won't hesitate anymore." Essentially, Homura realizes that she was a fool for trying to take the easy way out rather than fixing the actual problems at hand: the fact that Kyubey can just try to capture Madoka again and the fact that Madoka would miss everyone if she were forced to go far away. By becoming Devil Homura and not hesitating any longer, Homura wrests control away from the Incubators who are clearly a threat to Madoka and creates a universe where, at least at a glance, everyone is happy. Sayaka has Kyoko, Mami has Nagisa, Madoka is able to be with her family and friends again. But Homura realizes at the end of the movie when she questions Madoka in the hallway that Madoka is the type who would sacrifice personal happiness for the sake of the world and wouldn't approve of what Homura's done. That's why Homura gives her the red ribbons rather than her fake yellow ones, saying that "They look better on you." She's the true Madoka even if that means she'll be Homura's enemy one day. So Homura is once again super guilty, suicidal, and unhappy in the new universe (just look at her familiars jumping in the river and throwing tomatoes at her). But Homura will continue this world as long as it lasts so she can give Madoka the happiness Madoka denies herself out of her sake of duty. As long as it's for Madoka's sake, Homura will become anything, even the devil. Which is in character with Homura in the TV show. For most of the series, she wore the mask of the antagonistic, cold badass who didn't care about anyone but herself. She was okay with being called the villain by everyone because that was the most effective way for her to protect Madoka, not relying on anyone else. Her Devil Homura persona is yet another mask. She even told Sayaka that if they defeated the Wraiths, she'd be happy to fight them. She names herself a devil before anyone else does not because she's pure evil, but because it's the only thing you could call an ugly monster like her who dethroned someone as holy as Madoka. Again, the guilt and suicidal thoughts creep back to the surface. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5871 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Have to disagree about the TV series, the Homura I remember is the one next to the river with Madoka's family.
You do make good points about the movie, but I still feel the writers didn't make the case and I still think the battle in the egg is more positive in Homura's favor. And anyway, Homura has failed again. Brain wiped as she is, Madoka is not happy. She knows something is wrong. Don't see how Homura can be happy either. The Madoka she has, is not the one she knows. But I think we all can agree that the fate of the Kyubeys is most enjoyable for us. A question for all of us. Just how much time has passed in Madoka's world since the end of the TV series to the end of Rebellion. Magical Girls are practically immortal. The final, final battle in the TV series showed a desolate world, and things looked pretty desolate too at Homura's cairn in Rebellion. Are Madoka's parents even alive anymore. Is Madoka's brother and her school friends all grown up with children of the own. Are everyone they ever knew just dust in the wind, in a far future Earth. If that is the case, then did Homura create "Torches" (ala SnS) of everyone's family members and school friends, or did she roll time back to the good ole school days. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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I just assumed the "desolate world" was a different kind of illusionary world similar but different from a Witches Labyrinth. If we assume parallel dimensions have "significant temporal points of conflict" where Sayaka's death in the new universe would have been the point in time she would have turned witch, then we can assume the time in Rebellion is more or less just after the time when walpurgisnacht would have been fought. |
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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FA already mostly answered this, but the main thing you're missing about Homura is that she doesn't think she deserves any of that, especially anything involving Madoka. She failed to protect Madoka hundreds of times, only made things worse for her, and in the end, Madoka had to make a huge sacrifice to save her. Of course, Madoka was totally okay with making that sacrifice (fulfilled by it, even) and she never could have done it without Homura's help. But Homura doesn't see that. Remember, she had rather low self-esteem even before magic powers got involved; that first witch she encountered didn't have to work very hard to make her feel suicidal. All of her confidence comes from her intent to protect Madoka. "Well, I'm completely worthless, but Madoka is such a great person that she was nice to me even though I suck, so if I can save her, then at least I'm indirectly valuable." With Madoka out of reach and above the need for protection, Homura started to feel worthless again. (Presumably this is why she started turning into a witch, apparently while wandering the desert alone.) With Madoka's own unintended encouragement, she decides to take control, which most importantly includes recreating Madoka's old life minus Incubators, because without that she doesn't feel in control of anything. She knows this is, in some ways, an evil thing to do, and she considers herself unworthy of love anyway, so she styles herself as a devil. But since she really does care about everyone--except herself, and Kyubey--she makes their lives as idealized as possible. Now, even I'm not going to say that's morally spotless, but it certainly makes sense that she did it; and it's a nicer world to end up in, in some ways. If you aren't an evil space ferret. |
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jr240483
Posts: 4385 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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afraid your a little inaccurate about that. while its true that rial is well known for doing characters with "moe type voices" others like christian and savage doing roles like those are very rarely. dont get me wrong, its does happen but not occasionally.especially when it comes to funi or sentai dubs cause they usually call on rial to voice those moe characters or at times miss bailey. the usual VAs not from the adv/funi can do this well are usually miss valenzuela who voiced both nanoha and louise, miss germain from ocean studios , ruff from bang zoom and of course miss seph from studiopolis. luckily the dubbing from both the TV series and movies is very well done (which blunts the blow on the uber craptastic ending) so dont be surprised if they are used again for other magical girl series that get licensed in the US. |
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Panzer Vor
Posts: 648 |
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Carrie Keranen @CarrieKeranen · 5h
Homura is NOT MISUNDERSTOOD! She's a jerk! This party is going to break into a debate!!! @CristinaVee @SarahAnneWillia #MadokaRebellion Christine M. Cabanos @ChristineMCVA · 5h #MadokaRebellion sparks endless debates. Keep it clean @CarrieKeranen @CristinaVee #JERRYJERRY |
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