Forum - View topicMobile Suit Gundam 00 (TV) (all seasons + movie) - Japanese broadcast (w/ index).
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Yeah that was kind of the really far fetched survival of the season. I'm not sure how he actually survived that and it was never really shown either. My best guess is that he was never actually in the part of the Memento Mori that exploded. |
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abynormal
 Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
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One episode left!
Well, Tieria and Regene spoiler[are semi-dead / fused with Veda, Ali is dead at Lockon's hands (payback ftw), Setsuna has become a true Innovator and made the 00 even more powerful than ever, and we're headed for the final showdown between Setsuna and the rest of the Innovators / Innovades. ] And we finally learn the true purpose of Aeolia's plan:spoiler[ to stop makind from carrying war into space and prepare it for the inevitable encounter with extraterrestrial intelligence. ] And still no Graham in sight since his last battle with Setsuna. There's just no way this guy will go out without one final blaze of glory. |
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Nerv1
 Posts: 601 |
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Yeah after watching 24, I think Aeolia's plan was somewhat acceptable(if not silly), it just doesn't really work in some respects, such as with prof. Aifman's death in season 1. So he spoiler[was killed because he found out Aeolia was preparing mankind to meet aliens?] kinda silly if you ask me, but it works. I really do hope Graham appears in this last episode. I hope they can give him a good sendoff, like by appearing last minute to save Sestuna from Ribbons in their heated battle or something awesome like that. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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It's something that I have been feeling almost the entire second season, but have only put my finger on recently. I do not care for any of the characters bar Setsuna. I don't care if they live or die, if they are happy or sad, if they triumph or not; I only desire that they get off the screen. Is that being mean? Maybe. With Code Geass: R2 I practically ended up hating every character except Lelouch (whom I was still rooting for), so technically my stance on the Gundam 00 cast is kinder.
Some of these feelings actually started in the first season, especially regarding Saji and Louise. At first they were worse than useless as they tied up screentime. Then I like many viewers felt sorry for them. And then as Louise became yet another drugged-up and psychologically-deranged female pilot, and Saji became "emo", my faith that there would be a decent pay-off quickly evaporated. Honestly, every time in the second season that I heard Saji say "Louise", a little piece of my soul died. Now I don't have any left, and I couldn't care one little bit that Saji finally has Louise back. Big deal. Maybe if it had happened five or ten episodes ago, or if Louise had actually killed Saji, then I might have felt a pang of sympathy. But their character arc was over before it began. If there is one thing worse than a predictable resolution, it is a predictable resolution that overstays its welcome. It is why I hate Rumiko Takahashi works, and it is why I was bored to tears with this side-plot (in the brief moments I was trying not to punch the screen due to anger). But I'm done being angry, and I'm certainly done with caring for these two. Of course there are other characters in this show, and they must cop some blame. Lyle was a bad inclusion, as every second he is on screen I compare him to Neil. Oh, and ah, he shouldn't have even been there in the first place. It takes approximately thirteen months to train a United States Air Force pilot, but apparently a person with no prior training can instantly pilot a Gundam. Now sure, this is practically a staple of the franchise, but Gundam 00 had so much more promise in this regard. We had Gundam pilots who already knew how to pilot their machines, which nicely leaves (or left) out the rapid development of skills that plagues most of the other entries in the franchise. And even in this latest episode he almost let the man who effectively killed his parents get away, all because of Anew. People do crazy things due to love, but really, did he have to remember her voice right there and then? Seems an odd time to let one's mind wander. I'll leave out the other characters (oh, like Marina, Andrei, Billy, lack of Hallelujah, et cetera), partly because getting through all of them would be a chore, and partly because I really don't care about them. Although, special mention should be given to the bridge bunnies; I don't care that this is fiction, having female teenagers on the bridge of a warship is a bad idea. Especially if they are so vapid as to wear a skirt in zero-gee. Now I know that other Gundam shows have had such bridge bunnies, but if my memory serves me right they had no choice; Celestial Being had the time to pick their crew. And really, were those three the best Celestial Being could find? Granted that two of them were related to other members, so that helps in recruiting and security. But I still don't get how anyone would trust a teenager to such an important position if they had a choice. Anyway, enough about the characters. Hopefully the plot can be resolved; I will say that it looks promising in that respect. And then, once Gundam 00 is finished, it is Fullmetal Alchemist 2 time. That's the greatest gift this show can give me; to finally end and make room for something else. I don't like that I'm saying that, especially about a Gundam title. But them's the breaks. Rant over. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I think it must me a chick thing, I don't get it either. I thinkit'd be great if Rumiko Takahashi made a series in which the main characters were doing it like bunnies by the end of the first episode, just to be different. Saji was never not annoying. Louise was always Saji*1.5 on the annoying scale.
Well, he was a resistance fighter, he'd probably had mobile suit training. Also he had Haru-D2 to act as a support AI to handle the fidgety stuff. But yeah, Gundams seem to be particularly user friendly, about as easy to pilot as the videogame version..
Dude, it was the GN-S particles, it's a bit like Extasy mixed with LSD, gives you minor telepathy and vivid memories. Plus Innovades seem to leave ghosts lying around.
Most of the Gundam pilots started at between 14 and 17, now you're just being sexist that the same opportunities shouldn't be extended to girls.  They seem to do their jobs well, and CB is a small organization. I don't think I've seen any of them make massive fubars. Besides, the pilots are all men and they spend most of their time in space. Alone.
Overall, I've liked S2. Great show or greatest show? None of the above, but it was one of the better shows in a fairly dull season. The only thing that really bugs me in the show is princess Minmay and her magically distributed peace song. I liked her well enough in S1 but she hadn't done a single useful thing this entire season. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I had suspected the GN particles, but I hadn't quite brought myself to believe that they can let someone hear the voice of a dead person. Anyway, Lyle survived, so it didn't affect his judgement too much. But instead of following on foot, it would have been better to stick his beam pistol Mk II into the corridor and fire, catching Ali with a vengeful blast. Fast, efficient, and some nice visuals to boot. |
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MeanMachine
 Posts: 28 Location: Robertville, New-Brunswick |
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The problem with this show is not that it is bad in itself, but rather that it is badly MANAGED! I mean, 18 hours or so is a lot of fricking time to tell a story. But they crapped it on many level.
What is to blame is either something like a lack of coordination between the scriptwriters and the animators, or that the script was being written and/or rewriten as the show was being produced. I think it's most probably the last one, since you can't frick up that much if you have a minimum of a plan. But hey, it's less idiotic than wing or destiny, and as nice animation and fight scenes, with some decent music. I too want this to end so I can see FMA. Man, this is going to be awsome. OLIVIA, MARRY ME! 
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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While I did find the latest episode to be too convenient overall and the continued abuse of GN particles isn't what I'd personally call tasteful, not to mention realistic, it wasn't really a problem for me since the show has in fact been building up for such a conclusion. On a similar note, the details of Aeolia's plan seem both too idealistic and somewhat questionable, as a concept, but somehow that tends to fit with what we already know about the man and his objectives.
As for Gundam 00's characters in general...I would agree about feeling indifferent towards most, to certain extent even Setsuna himself could be more interesting than he is, but I think they fulfill their roles quite nicely under the circumstances and many of them (with some unfortunate exceptions) have received some development, even if it hasn't always been that great. You could always say I see the glass as half full where others only tend to see it as half empty or worse, both fairly and unfairly, but I do acknowledge certain issues. I'm still not the biggest fan of the Saji and Louise relationship either, to say the least, yet its apparent resolution counts as a positive for me, melodrama and all. It was about time and finally moving on from that is welcome. On the other hand, I feel Billy's flip-flopping doesn't work out quite as well in comparison and Andrei's not what I'd call a convincing character for me to even care. As much as Ribbons seems to be reduced to little more than a spoiled brat by now, I trust the show to provide an action-packed final battle with a couple of surprises along the way. Then again, I may be falling into a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you want to know what actually bothers me. That would be spoiler[ the increasingly likely possibility for the show to end without providing full closure in order to set up the rumored upcoming movie]. Doesn't mean the ending can't be interesting or enjoyable, but it may also feel a bit...underwhelming. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8464 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I couldn't disagree more. Lyle is far more developed than his brother Neil, more quirky and conflicted. As for why he can pilot, he was already working for Katharon, he probably trained with them for a while. If you recall, Lyle was holding back when he joined Celestial Being, pretending he didn't know what he was doing, but then breaking out with real skills now and then when it came to defending or avenging his Katharon allies. And Lyle's personality was that of a guy who is somewhat deceptive, but not a bad person. As for the scene with Ali, the GN Burst had the effect of allowing Setsuna to not only to be like Amuro Ray at the end of the original series, where he was communicating with others via his mind and talking to Lalah Sune, but to allow others, too, temporarily. Lyle showed that changing the world was more important than revenge for his brother, but of course, even with the understanding that the GN particles provides, Ali is a warmonger who threatens the evolution of man, and Lyle's mercy meant nothing to him. I didn't particularly want Ali to be dispatched by Lyle, but it was a fine scene. I have other thoughts on the episode, and I should add that I actually like the idea of GN Burst, but I'll get to them later. I would just like to remind everyone that it wasn't really presented as a magical cure-all. It merely opened up dialogues between characters whose problems came largely from miscommunication. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Before I begin, can someone explain to me how Tieria can be in two places at once? Inside VEDA and inside his Gundam's cockpit. I'm talking about his physical body, not his mind.
Really? One person's "developed" is another person's "went in a bad direction". But you have spoken your mind on this, so I won't try and change it.
Hmmm, you are right there. I suppose it is no worse than Ali hopping in the Zwei and suddenly being better than Johann and the Eins. Still not entirely happy with it though.
If it had been me, and Ali had killed my family, I would have shot him like a rabid dog (if I hadn't just used my Gundam's beam pistol). Honestly, Ali wasn't a victim of miscommunication or the like, he brainwashed children to murder their parents and ordered the bombings of innocent civilians. That Lyle even hesitated is downright disgusting in my eyes. No, Ali was never going to change, and Lyle was a fool for thinking otherwise. Does he need to be given a map, two compasses and a GPS unit to figure these things out?
It was a magical cure-all for Lasse. Okay, so it didn't recharge the capacitor in the 0 Gundam, but it did heal his wounds. And did Louise get revived from the dead, or just a coma? As for whole theme about miscommunication leading to conflict, it is a good one. Yes, I actually like the theme, although history teaches us that the struggle over land and resources has caused far, far more wars and conflicts. What I do not like is the execution of the theme. If the entire cast just sat down and talked the series would be over in five minutes; maybe ten. Granted, in war there isn't much opportunity to chat to the opposing side. But that's what everyone has been doing all season, through their Mobile Suits' communication systems. And they haven't been listening; why should a pretty rainbow suddenly make everyone (or almost everyone) understand one another now? They hear each other's voices, which is no different from the other twenty-three episodes of the season. What is so different now? Oh, it is the second-to-last episode and the plot now requires that characters suddenly start listening to everyone else. Sorry, but I remain unimpressed. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8464 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Well, certainly Ali deserved to die. That was sort of the point presented: even if human beings are able to come to a better understanding, people like Ali will still pose a threat. However, Lyle killing Ali for revenge would have been him giving in to a baser humanity. Of course, the writers solved this by having him kill him instead out of self-defense. I'd rather him been blown up by a random explosion inside the ship or something, but I was fine with what happened. And sorry that Lyle is a more mature person than you are.
Lasse's largely Tau Drive-related sickness merely went into temporary remission by the effect of the geniune GN particles. Louise was just plain unconscious. Saji is not a doctor.
Well the GN burst had a twofold effect - first, people stopped fighting because a huge burst of light was going everywhere and GN particles tend to cause a temporary slow-down. Second, it opened up people's thoughts and feelings. It's different to experience a person's thoughts via GN particles than it is to just hear them speak their feelings, because its a direct contact with their mind. Yeah, thinking about it, the execution is a bit lacking. But I never said this was the greatest Gundam program. It's better, in my opinion, than any Gundam series since Turn A, but I wouldn't place it on a favorites list. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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And how do you arrive at that conclusion? Killing a man who would kill you in an instant if he had the chance is a bad thing? It is immature? I can say with great certainty that I respect human life far more than you do. Is that a paradoxical statement, given my willingness to kill Ali if I were in Lyle's position? No. An unrepentant mass murderer who enjoys killing is the sort of In fact, that would have been hilarious. Lyle doesn't shoot Ali, Ali escapes in the commotion, steals a Mobile Suit, returns to Ireland and starts destroying every single school and orphanage there. Lyle returns, defeats Ali, and then with a pang of dread demands who the pilot is, and Ali pops up on the view-screen and yells "Hi! Remember me?!" Lyle goes all emo, jumps out of his cockpit and confronts Ali, who promptly shoots Lyle in the arms. Ali then hops into Cherudim, kills Lyle by stepping on him, and continues to kill more innocent civilians. Setsuna arrives, realises it is not Lyle, kills Ali, and then kicks himself for A: not letting Lyle die back in episode forty-five, and B: giving such an idiot a Gundam in the first place. So penguintruth, who really is the mature and intelligent person? The guy who puts the lives of civilians over a monster like Ali, or the guy who put his own idealistic morals over the lives of said innocent civilians? You must realise that you are arguing a very bad position here. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8464 Location: Penguinopolis |
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dtm42, yes, Ali is a monster. But he was defeated, and there was no way he was going to find a MS that was working at that point because of the Trial System. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have otherwise taken Ali into custody without harming him if Ali hadn't grabbed for his gun. Ali would have been removed from society. I'm certainly glad Ali's dead, despite him being my favorite villian, because he was a major threat. But Lyle wouldn't have helped himself by killing Ali out of revenge. That sort of old-fashioned thinking is what Aeolia was trying to rid humanity of in the first place.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Killing out of revenge is understandable, but you are right in that it isn't the most purest of motives. What I'm trying to say is that revenge is not just what it was all about, that keeping someone like him from killing anyone else is a pure and reasonable motive. Now, if it is possible to do that by not killing Ali then great. But Ali is an expert with a pistol, with a Mobile Suit, and I presume he is proficient in martial arts as well. He is very resourceful, very cunning, and it is clear as daylight that if he ever escaped from captivity then more people would die. I'm not usually for the death penalty, especially since innocent people are too often killed along with the criminals. But in this case there was no doubt that Ali was guilty (he took great pride in his line of work after all), and he was simply too dangerous to keep alive. It just wasn't worth the risk, in my eyes at least. I don't want the Gundam pilots to be cold-blooded killers, but there are times in which it is preferable to risking so many lives on the chance that Ali could be contained. Lyle didn't even have handcuffs; I don't think Ali was ever going to give up quietly anyway. I just wish Lyle could have seen that. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Both Regene and Teria were dead.
His body was inside Veda. He was piloting the Cest la Vie remotely.
Neither had physical wounds though, they just had GN-T particle poisoning. the GN-S particles could plausibly flush them, reducing the damage they caused.
I think that part of it is that they weren't saying a lot before, but they do so telepathically now. A lot of their problems were in not choosing to communicate. And it seems like it isn't just a mentally "verbal" communication, but a direct transmission of emotions and subconcious as well, like the Billy/Sumeragi situation. They truly understand what the other person means, even if they don't express it well. |
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