Forum - View topicNEWS: Metrocon Posts Statement After Founder's Arrest
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Excuse me but this underage girl waited four freakin' years before reporting this incident. And believe it or not, people sometimes lie about being raped. Shocking, I know! But it does happen. This girl probably became obsessed with him and when he pushed her aside, she decided to get revenge. Unless, she has some concrete evidence, which is unlikely after four years, this girl doesn't have a leg to stand on. Course, nowadays, when it comes to child molestation, no evidence is needed, just an accusation.
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tebalith
Posts: 134 |
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I don't know either way what happened, but neither do you. Of course sometimes people lie about being raped, but what bothers me is that this is the default assumption among anime fandom. And why? Because the alleged perpetrator is "one of us", that is, shares a hobby and has been active in the community.
Believe it or not, the fact she didn't say anything for three years doesn't in any way prove she's a psychotic stalker who made it all up. It happens a lot that rape victims stay silent for months or years, especially young people, especially if they didn't think of it as rape at that time, and so on and so on. That you and many others assume that she must be lying, and describe speculations concerning what happened that make her look bad, is really not sending the best of messages. If anime fandom wants to be respected and not considered potential sex offenders, they should take cases like this more seriously, and make it a little bit more clear that they disapprove of one of them taking advantage of minors sexually. Instead of, you know, sending a message of "that crazy whore probably deserved it". o_O |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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I meant she MIGHT be lying! You say I'm making assumptions but you are too. And no, I'm not automatically defending this guy because he's "one of us". I'm well aware that there are some actual creeps in the anime fandom. But at this point we don't really know anything except that an accusation has been made so let's not jump to conclusions about either one of these people.
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tebalith
Posts: 134 |
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This is speculation:
It's not even based on any available information, but a complete fabrication. You also say she waited "four freaking years", the word "freaking" in that context does not make your comment neutral. Whether you intended it or not, but your comment works towards painting the girl in a bad light. You suggest she might be lying, and I think that's a damn dangerous idea to bring up in a case like this. It is not a normal reaction to hear about a crime and immediately declare that maybe it didn't happen and the victim made it up. So why is this the common reaction around here? |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Look not only did this girl wait four years but she has no evidence; basically it's a case of he said/she said at this point. Now, if there is any evidence, then I'll be the first to bash this guy. But the key word here is EVIDENCE, of which there is currently none. If you're going to make a serious accusation like this you have to be able to back it up. You can't just decide one day, years after the fact, to come forward. And that's why people are suspicious.
But it's apparent that you've already decide this guy is guilty, so no point in arguing with you. |
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tebalith
Posts: 134 |
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Do we know for a fact that there is no evidence? (Or witnesses or the like?)
Look, I simply don't think that it is the right response to a charge of statutory rape to say, as the Metrocon people have done, that this is all just a nasty attack on their convention and anime fandom. |
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Capella
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The staff at Metrocon are close to the former CEO so they may know more than we do about this case. This sort of indicates that: "METROCON is a family event, and it always will be, and should anyone doubt the safety of their children at this event because of an accusation based on a story from years ago that has been twisted to an unidentifiable state" I assume that means that the accusation brought against Roy Harms maybe false but like others have said it's her word against his unless she has some evidence. Either way I don't think anyone here is trying to say that that she "deserved what she got" or "she's obviously lying" just that it is suspicious to wait almost 4 years and to coincidentally do it a week before the convention. There's nothing wrong with speculating and the Metrocon staff may have a reason to believe that it is an attack against the convention if they knew the victim. |
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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I don't believe you. Because, see, there is evidence; a woman has come forward and asserted she was sexually abused. That's a statement, from a witness. Who may or may not be lying, and whose evidence thus may or may not be reliable, but who certainly, indisputably, unquestionably exists, and whose evidence likewise. Proof? No. Evidence? Certainly. |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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No, that's a statement from the victim. A witness is someone who sees the crime being committed; a victim is the person against whom the crime is committed. In other words, there is NO evidence and you cannot convict a person on an accusation alone. At least you shouldn't be able to; plus if that were the case there's probably be a whole lot more people in jail. Sheesh, where is CSSYueh when you need her?
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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So... if someone sees a crime being committed, and that crime is committed against them, they are both a victim and a witness. Yes? Or are you going to cook up some other distinction that entirely coincidentally lets you ignore just this one person's recollection of what happens? |
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tebalith
Posts: 134 |
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Capella, the staff at Metrocon is hardly unbiased.
The link posted on the previous page goes to a post by the alleged victim, where she speaks about her (alleged) relationship with the man. That post was made in January this year, so it's not like nothing was ever mentioned about the case before this June. The post also implies that other girls might have had relationships with him, if that's true, there might be potential witnesses. She also says "a lot of people knew what was going on". So if she is saying the truth, she might have witnesses. If this is really her, her blog, and if she was the one to get the police involved. Theoretically, it might have been anybody else, I guess? The information has been out there, online, for months, including both parties' names (again, if this IS her). |
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MokonaModoki
 Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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Obviously they said much more than that, but if it is what the person who wrote it believes, and if they have a reason to believe it, then is it not exactly the right response? This is a convention, not some government agency. The people involved are friends, and sometimes you choose to defend your friends. The accuser is obviously known to these people, and by her own assertion "its common information, because I made it so 3 years ago, after I left the convention group." You were certainly correct that "it happens a lot that rape victims stay silent for months or years." It's a reasonable point to reflect upon. because she didn't do that. She didn't stay silent, not did she pursue legal options. Instead, by "making it common information" without making a legal accusation she engaged in rumor-mongering, in an apparent attack on Harms' reputation. Assuming that the people close to Harms may have had direct experience of both her association with him and with the convention, that means that they've had anywhere up to at least 3 1/2 years to reach a conclusion about whether they believe he did what he is accused of or not, as well as whether or not they believe the timing of this (now legal) accusation to be an attempt to hurt Roy and his convention at the same time. If they've chosen to believe that this is the culmination of over 3 years efforts to damage the reputation of the convention's CEO (and by extension, the convention) then they have every right to express that opinion publicly. I don't have an opinion either way about whether Harms and Ramsey had a sexual relationship. If they didn't, then this is a malicious attack on Harms. If they did, and if every single thing that she's ever said is true, then it still looks like she's pursuing this as a grudge and not a grievance. What her motivations subjectively appear to be don't affect the legality of the situation, or the truth or falsehood of what she says, but it isn't unreasonable if they provoke a loss of sympathy for her and damage her credibility. Last edited by MokonaModoki on Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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How did this go from an already acknowledged consensual relationship with someone under 18 to accusations of rape? Laws in this country when it comes to anything remotely sexual (real or fictional) are just moronic. A story of how a teenager taking nude photos of her own self can be charged with a sex crime just highlights that.
My thoughts exactly. |
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