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Hey, Answerman! [2006-07-28]


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Kilgamayan



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Location, Location.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:38 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Mint Mania IIDX wrote:

^__^ Silly Zac. You've done nothing of the sort, especially since lolicon isn't kiddie porn.


Right, because it's just drawings of children being raped and abused and tortured.


Is this a problem? The United States government doesn't seem to think so, otherwise they would've made it illegal too. Disregarding legal issues leaves you with moral and ethical ones, and it's pointless to debate those because neither morals nor ethics are universal so you're never going to get anywhere.

Basically what this has become is you attacking Mint because he does things differently from you. If this is incorrect, then please let me know, but if I hit the bullseye, then why bother continuing? You're not going to accomplish anything.

Zac wrote:
You're totally in the clear, man. You're an upright citizen who goes to work, does a great job, gives a thumbs up to his boss on the way home, grabs a latte on his way back to the apartment...

And then boots up animated Japanese porn involving 8-year olds being raped, beats off, and then goes to bed.

Clearly this is a totally normal situation and does not involve you fantasizing about children being raped and abused, at all.


Assuming the sarcasm in the last paragraph is used to imply that Mint fantasizes about children being raped and abused, this is nothing more than a straw man (with some ad hominem thrown in). "You beat off to animated 8-year-olds, so therefore you beat off to 8-year-olds in general."

cyrax777 wrote:
Mint Mania IIDX wrote:
Zac wrote:
Sorry I hurt your feelings or made you think twice before beating off to kiddie porn.

^__^ Silly Zac. You've done nothing of the sort, especially since lolicon isn't kiddie porn.


if your jerking to drawing of little kids its kiddie porn. yeah legaly it isnt but moraly it probly isnt but hey its still kiddie porn.
just drawn kiddie porn.


So it's kiddie porn even though it isn't legally or (probably) morally? Then on what grounds is it? And are those grounds even meaningful at all if they're not legal or moral?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:41 am Reply with quote
Mint Mania IIDX wrote:

Wow. There's no debating going on. It's just all the people who think that lolicon = child porn yelling at and attacking all the people who don't. GJ, guys.


Yeah, you truly are an oppressed minority in this thread.

Says the guy who clearly registered just to defend lolicon porn in this thread and also filled in the "location" field with "raping your lolis because it pisses you off".

PROTIP: you're supposed to put where you live there, not your oh-so-valuable opinion on whether or not it's cool to jerk off to kiddie porn.
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:45 am Reply with quote
I can't sit back and watch this go on anymore without saying something.

When I was seven, I was 'molested'--I hate using that word, because the kid wasn't much older than I was. But no matter if he was an adult or a kid, it still screwed me up.

Now, I know that nobody's saying it's *okay* that this happened, and I'm not trying to imply that he did it because he had lolicon on his computer, but arguing that it's okay because 'nobody is getting hurt' bothers me.

Someone is getting hurt. You. You're slowly conditioning yourselves into thinking that it's OKAY that it's depicting a kid being treated like an object and not a person.

It's not OK. You can yell about freedom until your blue in the face, but you're inslaving yourselves.

Feel free to start the flames now. Razz
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Mint Mania IIDX



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Central
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:47 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Says the guy who clearly registered just to defend lolicon porn in this thread and also filled in the "location" field with "raping your lolis because it pisses you off".

PROTIP: you're supposed to put where you live there, not your oh-so-valuable opinion on whether or not it's cool to jerk off to kiddie porn.

...This is seriously all you have left. GJ, Zac. You've one-upped me this time. I don't know if I can stand against your protip about what I am supposed to put into a forum text field.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
Someone is getting hurt. You. You're slowly conditioning yourselves into thinking that it's OKAY that it's depicting a kid being treated like an object and not a person.

Guro makes me want to kill people. Rolling Eyes
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:50 am Reply with quote
JoshuaStChristopher wrote:

Perhaps I'm just in utter shock that there are people willing to defend child-pornography. Regardless of what anyone personally thinks on the subject, the fact is that when someone creates an anime or manga that sexualizes children, that's what they were trying to do. And I'm sorry, but that's wrong.


I'm not in shock. People have defended animated child porn/lolicon material before on this forum.

I'm just wondering when it's going to get locked.


Last edited by hikaru004 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:56 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
People have changed my mind on things and I am very quick to admit when I'm wrong, as people who know me will tell you. But the arguments in this thread are not compelling; they are simply transparent.

Nice to meet you, Dr. Bohr.
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Pop-Art Samurai



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:05 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
Nice to meet you, Dr. Bohr.


This adds what to the discussion?

Kilgamayan wrote:
Is this a problem? The United States government doesn't seem to think so, otherwise they would've made it illegal too.


A number of the European countries have, or are likely moving that way. Perhaps the reason the US government hasn't specifically outlawed this yet is only because it hasn't come up.

Mint Mania IIDX wrote:
Guro makes me want to kill people. Rolling Eyes


Beautiful way to, you know, sidestep the whole point of the post. A pity too, it might be one of the most germane posts in the entire thread.
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Kilgamayan



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Location, Location.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:16 am Reply with quote
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
A number of the European countries have, or are likely moving that way. Perhaps the reason the US government hasn't specifically outlawed this yet is only because it hasn't come up.


The Supreme Court deemed making animated child porn illegal unconstitutional in 2003. They went out of their way to point it out as an exception to the rule.

The Constitution is probably really the only thing holding the USA back from making it illegal. I know Canada has already gone to that length.
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cyrax777



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 1825
Location: the desert
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:18 am Reply with quote
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:


Kilgamayan wrote:
Is this a problem? The United States government doesn't seem to think so, otherwise they would've made it illegal too.


A number of the European countries have, or are likely moving that way. Perhaps the reason the US government hasn't specifically outlawed this yet is only because it hasn't come up.



actly it used to be for a while.
then supreme court ruled not a real child so legal then http://icreport.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.4472:

came along and restated

Quote:
(8) “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including anyphotograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generatedimage or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical,or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—
(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, orcomputer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that ofa minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
(C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified toappear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicitconduct.


pretty much legaly simple drawings are not child porn.
but were not talking the legal issue.
Is wacking off to lolicon the same to spanking it to real CP. on one hand ethicaly theres no real child involved but on the other hand you are being turned on by a depection of a child. its very hard to aurgue but but its a just a anime kid so it doesnt count.well shit if she's supposed to be 8 you just got turned on by a 8 year old. sorry thats just the way it is.
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Mint Mania IIDX



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Central
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:31 am Reply with quote
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
Beautiful way to, you know, sidestep the whole point of the post. A pity too, it might be one of the most germane posts in the entire thread.

I got it, but I don't see how it applies to everyone. The generalizations in this thread are ruining the creditability of most of its posters.
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:35 am Reply with quote
Mint Mania IIDX wrote:
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
Beautiful way to, you know, sidestep the whole point of the post. A pity too, it might be one of the most germane posts in the entire thread.

I got it, but I don't see how it applies to everyone. The generalizations in this thread are ruining the creditability of most of its posters.


I actually didn't say 'lolicon makes you rape children'...just that it desensitises you to the idea. Maybe guro doesn't make you want to KILL people, but maybe it makes it less of a big deal--which is dangerous, none the less. Same for lolicon.
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ryujin jakka



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:36 am Reply with quote
What in the fudge? Shocked People are actually defending Lolicon people! Great, I can see my beloved hobby decaying right before my eyes. "News Flash" "All of Japanese Anime declared Child Porn"= People [expletive] starring at me while I am buying the Latest godamn volume of Bleach, or a [expletive] godamn Miazaki Film.


To The [expletive] defender's of Lolicon,

It does not matter if they are real children or Anime children, IT IS STILL [expletive] CHILD PORN! Mad Jeasus Christ, Can't you people see that! Are you Insane! What the hell's wrong with you?


Flame me all you want, I AM [expletive] RIGHT AND YOU ARE [expletive] WRONG AND SICK!

Curtis

END!


[size=9](Apologies, I hate this topic)[/size]
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Kilgamayan



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Location, Location.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:43 am Reply with quote
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
Mint Mania IIDX wrote:
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
Beautiful way to, you know, sidestep the whole point of the post. A pity too, it might be one of the most germane posts in the entire thread.

I got it, but I don't see how it applies to everyone. The generalizations in this thread are ruining the creditability of most of its posters.


I actually didn't say 'lolicon makes you rape children'...just that it desensitises you to the idea. Maybe guro doesn't make you want to KILL people, but maybe it makes it less of a big deal--which is dangerous, none the less. Same for lolicon.


Most any fictional medium (and, sadly, a lot of the daily news) can be used for desensitization to things that common sense dictates require above-average amounts of attention. I could claim, for example, that 24 desensitizes its viewers to violence, possibly even more so than guro because Keifer Sutherland is a real person along with all the other actors.

ryujin jakka wrote:
It does not matter if they are real children or Anime children, IT IS STILL [expletive] CHILD PORN! :x Jeasus Christ, Can't you people see that! Are you Insane! What the hell's wrong with you?


Flame me all you want, I AM RIGHT-YOU ARE WRONG!


I really hope you're not serious in this endeavour.

If you are, then I'd like to point out to you that my government disagrees with you, and no offense, but I'm prepared to take their stance over yours.

On a completely unrelated note, "germane" was on one of my 11th grade vocab tests. I remember the memorization hint the class decided upon was a comparison to Germany and how the Nazi's weren't.
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ryujin jakka



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:53 am Reply with quote
Kilgamayan wrote:
If you are, then I'd like to point out to you that my government disagrees with you, and no offense, but I'm prepared to take their stance over yours.



So you are defending them?
What do you mean
"your goverment disagree's with me?"


Curtis


Last edited by ryujin jakka on Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PantsGoblin
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Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2969
Location: L.A.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:55 am Reply with quote
ryujin jakka wrote:
To The [expletive] defender's of Lolicon,

It does not matter if they are real children or Anime children, IT IS STILL [expletive] CHILD PORN! Mad Jeasus Christ, Can't you people see that! Are you Insane! What the hell's wrong with you?


Flame me all you want, I AM [expletive] RIGHT AND YOU ARE [expletive] WRONG AND SICK!

Curtis

END!


[size=9](Apologies, I hate this topic)[/size]


Heh, looking through this thread, l find it funny that so many of the people on this side of the arguement are complete idiots/@$$holes like this who provide absolutely no arguement for their claims (not saying that all of them are like this though). Just funny how it ends up like that. Of course I'm not trying to imply something...
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