Forum - View topicWake Up, Girls! (TV + movie).
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15466 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
Monaca, credited with music, is also credited with music in Nyaruko: Crawling with Love! (apparently the English name the first season is going by). DIVE II Entertainment is credited with Music Production of this and both Nyaruko series. Episode 2 Eww, this was a little hard to watch, and it seemed to be done purposely, hopefully as a means to say that something like this won't happen again. I feel quite angry at Matsuda for letting it go as far as it did, he may be new but it was his job to make sure they were not put into situations they would be uncomfortable with. One look at the guy was enough to know that they should not work with him. Hopefully things will be looking up. Kind of strange when the fans of a maid café felt like a good sort of audience. |
||||||
|
||||||
HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
|
|||||
You're right that was painful. I was actually wanting the fan service to end because they were so good at projecting how uncomfortable the girls were. And those patrons of the bath house were total dipshits.
The "situation" was borderline prostitution with high school girls. Talk about stupid. He didn't even think ahead of time to find out what they would be paid and seeing how they were entertaining maybe a dozen fans it could not have been much. But I also have to question why the girls were so pliant in the first place. It took some number of acts, servitude, and groping before they started to tentatively think "this isn't right?" Come on. Most girls I know would have told them to stick those bikinis where the sun don't shine when they first appeared. Most anime character girls as well, come to think of it. |
||||||
|
||||||
notrogersmith
 Posts: 192 |
|
|||||
Same here, although I'm not a fan of fanservice to begin with. There were some shots where I was thinking, "Geez, 'cameraman', we didn't need a close-up of that!" Given what you said, I'm not sure if those close-ups were meant to be titillating or off-putting.
Did you notice that one of Sudo's accidental (on purpose?) mispronunciations of the idol group's name was "Working Girls"? I realize that this is a Japanese show, but I have a hard time believing that was accidental on the part of the screenwriters, if not Sudo's character.
First, people are often more compliant than they think they'd be. It's one thing for a person to imagine telling someone else off, and another thing to actually do so, especially when that someone else has some power over that person. Second, you write as if the girls had no initial misgivings, and that was clearly not the case. They were convinced to overcome their qualms partly because idols in bikinis was hardly unknown, partly because it was rubbed in their faces that they had flashed their panties in their first show, and partly because repressing their qualms was sold to them as "resolve." It also didn't help that the full extent of what they were expected to do was not revealed to them up front; at first, it looked like they were just going to a normal show while wearing skimpy outfits. Given the context, I don't find their initial pliancy to be unbelievable at all. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
|
|||||
|
Kind of disappointed by the first half episode 2. I have to make it clear that I have no issue with the most fan service shows (I watch some of them while working), but I think content like that is out of step with Wake Up, Girls! Everything felt muted and believable throughout the movie, it gave the impression that this was going to be a more realistic depiction of idolory (it's a new word, look it up
 ) that didn't sidestep the dark underbelly that is either ignored or glossed over in every other Idol anime. spoiler[Even that one close up on Miyu's chest in the movie, through Matsuda's POV, arguably serves a narrative function about Miyu's character or Matsuda's.]
But a lot of the spoiler[locker room scenes and the dance number was fan service for it's own sake. Sure, you need to show the characters in their bikinis to expose the situation], but they went above and beyond what was necessary for the sake of the story. I hope this doesn't continue moving forward. Fan service shots are really distracting when they occur in shows that look as if it is trying to take themselves seriously. Beyond that, I think it was good, and can be illustrative of the unsavory and horrid kinds of work idols and entertainers of many sorts force themselves to do because "it's work" or they perceive it as a necessary evil to further their careers... Is this kind of "spa" common in Japan, wherein lascivious tomfoolery are a common occurrence? I also found myself rolling my eyes a bit at how the episode cast almost all the drunkards at the spa as disrespectful and lecherous, juxtaposed with all the otaku at the maid cafe as these understanding, supportive fans that really care! Then again, Matsuda and the maid cafe fans are all too common a convention in anime, wherein one or a few male characters are good and virtuous, while most are not-- in varying degrees. |
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
|
The "fanservice" was there to make the viewer feel really uncomfortable and to expose that 'dark side' that you wanted to see. In Japan there are sleazy 'talent scouts' that could do this kind of thing. Hell, if you have any idea at all on the 'junior idol' industry, then honestly what the girls went through, while still very skeevy was nothing. They could have had them fellating bananas, having the more endowed members doing jump rope or hoola-hoop, or other much more sexually-manipulative tasks.
If you were very uncomfortable during that portion, then congratulations, that was the desired effect. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
|
|||||
|
I'm just going to preface this by saying again that the issue is not fan service in a vacuum, it's the way the show blunders by placing these kinds of close ups into the episode in a way that doesn't add to the story.
Again, what about the locker room, before the show? The pans and close ups on everything but their face doesn't serve any narrative function, as opposed to several of the shots during and after the dance that set up the relationship between the girls and the spa goers. It also isn't being done for an economic reason, because the girls are still in motion during the dressing scenes. The inter-cutting during the performance that establish the Spa-goers are oogling them makes sense, but they continue with more close ups that don't already establish that their being sexualized by the patrons. It's the patrons behavior and remarks, such as the krunked old man and Kaya, that makes me feel uncomfortable, not more pans of Mayu and Minami, and the lined up butts. When Minami strikes the *nyaa!* pose instead of whatever a panther pose is, and the patron says "whatevs, cute anyways, saashin!!", it does serve the purpose of showing that Minami is naive and unaware in the way that most young adolescents are regarding sexual situations. I know it's tedious to address individual scenes, but I want to reiterate that several of the shots aren't adding to the story, characters or mood, not all of them. But being made to feel uncomfortable by the patrons behavior or any of the fan service wasn't what I was talking about (unless you're addressing someone else's post as well), it was that several of the scenes serve no good function to advance plot or develop character; they're boxcars. They distract from the story by not adding to it; showing lady lumps for it's own sake, not the narrative. My opinion is that these kinds of scenes don't usually work for a realistic show that wants to place story and character above being sexually appealing, and are especially distracting when the show is doing a good job. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
If you watch anything, you can say that. There will never be an anime where 100% of the time is either advancing the plot or developing the characters. If you'll watch the future episodes (let alone the first episode+movie where the only fanservice was also intentional with the debut performance) then you'll see where the heart of the production team lies. I doubt the manager (or his boss now that she's back) will allow that sort of sleaze again. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
|
|||||
Yes, plenty of films and television series have boxcars, but leaving out the context that I'm talking about fan service shots specifically might make it seem that I'm just talking about any superfluous shot, which is totally forgivable and can be overlooked when they're the exception. I also mentioned mood, which could be mistaken for something that's not necessary but absolutely is. There was also that POV shot of Matsuda staring at Miyu's cleavage during their interview, but thus far it remains to be seen if it will work it's way into the story like the underwear bit did at the concert. But, it arguably works on it's own in establishing that Matsuda's personality. |
||||||
|
||||||
leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
|
|||||
|
Really? So it takes comments about your azz and boobs, a creepy photo shoot, guys touching them on the butt without their permission and a game that requires you to kiss a random creep to finally notice "Hey......this isn't right". Lovely. Simply lovely.
Do these girls have no self respect? I mean i don't know anyone who would have taken that kind of crap just for a job. They suffered straight up sexual harassment. In fact when they first saw the swimsuits they should have just walked out. It was obvious the guy was a fraud and the fact Matsuda let it get so far out of hand makes me loath his character. A managers job is to make sure his clients are happy with their work. Yeah he wanted to get them work but he should have seen that they obviously weren't happy about it. Heck even the president who tossed them all away to squander all their money saw that. I think his incompetence is rubbing off on the girls. I mean these girls are still in freaking high school. It would be one thing if they were college students but it's not like having a job at this very moment is going to kill them so i saw no need for them to put up with that. Honestly one of the worst episodes i've seen this season. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Sunny milk
Posts: 695 |
|
|||||
|
Oh please, gravure and idoling goes almost hand-in-hand in idol industry, surely that audience went over what they should accept, but the swimsuits themselves weren't all that offensice.
And they are still 13-18, big [expletive] deal, that's not anything uncommon for girls their age to do photoshoots in skimpy clothing. These girls probably thought it as a prime chance to get some backing for their group, and do a job, and even when things started to look out no to be for their like, they tried to get through it so they can have the benefits of the job. I agree that Matsuda should have cancelled the deal after a certain point (that is, people wanting to physically interact with the idols, which even aside from being upsetting could kill an idol's career), so it was still messed up, but for different reasons. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
|
|||||
i don't mind gravures and stuff like that i but this obviously wasn't anything official/legit. It's one thing to have a magazine do a photo shoot with you in skimpy clothing but it's another to have a bunch of random creepy old guys taking pictures of you on their cell phones. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that doing a photo shoot for a bunch of horny old men was going to change anything for them. I mean sheez they might as well have just put up a sign above the place that said "hooters" and called it good. You can blame it on their naiveness i guess but considering some of them are old enough to know that this sort of thing should never be accepted i can't say that's an excuse really. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Sunny milk
Posts: 695 |
|
|||||
|
They kinda knew that this isn't the work they want, but since it wasn't too far off the table of what is still acceptable, and since this was still a job that might have gotten themselves a sponsor and a wealthy backer, they thought they had to do it.
Of course it reached a point where it couldn't be just written off as an unpleasant job, but that was only when those old men started to act up physically. Every good manager/producer would have stopped the performance at that point, but only at that point. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
|
|||||
|
News flash: inexperienced and ambitious teenagers are inexperienced.
The manager should have known better, but he is by his own admission inexperienced and by observation something of a dimwit. Second news flash: Those types are easy to take advantage of. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
notrogersmith
Posts: 192 |
|
|||||
I had thought about saying something similar earlier but decided to give the show the benefit of the doubt for now, at least until the third episode. Still, I'm reminded, though, of a similar observation in a recent review of Sankarea, where the reviewer complained of fanservice that seemed to go against the point of the story itself, much as you did here. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
|
|||||
I would defend myself against this if it weren't a strawman regarding my post, if you're addressing me. Where did I say "it's cool for them to take any job to further their career as idols until someone grabs your ass and tells you 'your tits and ass are huge!'" Or "I was fine with this... Until the 'panther pose'. Yamamoto, you go too far." I don't recall saying anything that would have even implied that, or anyone else in the thread for that matter. Moreover, it's clear that Matsuda wasn't present during the sequence when the worst of it occurs, rather, he was discussing the contract with that proprietor and it isn't clear what he was told by the group after all that happened, if they told him at all. We don't know why the president beat the shit out of Sudo beyond being pissed off at Matsuda and Sudo; one for being naive, stupid, and manipulated, and the other for being a "thug producer" who would have likely run off with the money (just like she did!)-- I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that she cared about the group's feelings in that (or any) situation-- thus far I don't think the president considers the group or Matsuda as anything other than utilities for her personal benefit. I'm sure she'll have her dere moment soon enough though, and expose how she really feels.
Agreed, but I think some fail to realize that the montage (not montage sequence) was cut in a way that suggests the ass grabbing, panther posing and kissy gaming happened concurrently while Matsuda was talking with the Proprietor about the contract. It's unclear if Matsuda was made aware of what happened at the time (or afterwards), beyond seeing an upset Miyu declare that she'd quit, rather than having to deal with that situation. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group