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ActionJacksin
 Posts: 112 |
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haha wow you guys are still arguing about shoes.
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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And you're still desperately trying to shut that argument down through the use of a reductionist, trivializing description. 
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Jave
 Posts: 198 |
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Who's denying what? I just said they make her look good  I can totally admit she looks great.
More fascinating is tumblr is defending them but /v/ is complaining about them. Totally opposite from the norm on these kinda issues
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ActionJacksin
Posts: 112 |
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They're shoes on an imaginary character. Everyone on both sides of the argument is looking too much into things here. It really is a joke, a caricature of both sides really giving it their all on analyzing character that doesn't exist, that they will never meet, and is wearing footwear that also does not exist.
My thoughts exactly, hence why having a horse in this race is just a waste of time. Might as well point and laugh. Last edited by ActionJacksin on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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While I agree that the debate has become overwrought, we often use fictional devices to make ideological points. In this case, even though Samus isn't real, the ideology behind the decisions that went into her character as well as whatever changes were made to her character *are* real, and were made by real people. There's nothing wrong with looking at such things and then commenting on why various things were done the way they were done.
You can reduce almost any argument down to absurdity if you want. Football (both American and international) is "just a game", but millions are spent on it, millions more are waged betting on it. People get very emotional about it. Yet you often hear some smug SOB comment about how much better off the world would be if we committed that sort of passion to "real" issues. One thing I'll add, though, is that unless the creators/people making the decisions have actually commented about the reasoning behind their decisions regarding Samus, whatever is said here will end up being speculation. And people will be attacking or defending positions which may or may not actually be factual. Sometimes people don't put in a lot of thought into what they do, or they simply don't care enough about it. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Yeah yeah. It's all imaginary so it can't mean anything. There's no point in looking at it critically. Let's all just shut up about gender issues in media.
Cause that's not a ridiculously self-serving position for you to take at all. |
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ActionJacksin
Posts: 112 |
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Never said we should not talk about this stuff, but I don't see how scrutinizing a pair of high heels in a game about Mario and his pals wailing on each each other with mallets and laser beams will somehow count as a victory against gender inequality. I'd figure if either side were to write a dissertation about gender representation, the last place would be in slap-happy Nintendo fighting land where-in the object that undoes the fabric of the world is, once again, a pair of shoes. Last edited by ActionJacksin on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mister Ryan Andrews
 Posts: 219 |
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What problem? There's no rule that says they're mutually exclusive and you can't mix that stuff together. Not the first time I've seen PTSD in a series with comic relief or fanservice. "Good writing" is subjective so trying to argue that is pointless. But I can see this is going into that MGS:GZ topic territory of "a game can only deal with a subject if it does so in my chosen specific way" so I doubt anything I say will convince you. She suffers from PTSD and you can either accept that or not. You don't have to like it but that's the way it is. It's not something they just pulled out though, it was established years before other M came out.
I own the original Japanese Famicom game and it says "uchuu senshi" which translates as "space warrior". Perhaps "bounty hunter" appears in later installments, but originally it wasn't the case. Though if it is described as a mercenary that makes more sense. I just did some digging and found an interview about it and apparently it's a misinformation issue. The Japanese devs adopted "bounty hunter" later on because they thought it sounded cool without knowing what it meant. Apparently when Retro wanted to make their Prime games they tried to actually make Samus bounty hunt people and Nintendo told them "no she doesn't do that". When they told Nintendo what a Bounty Hunter was they went "Oh well that's not what she is" So... yeah. Japan using an english term without knowing what it meant. So she's a 'bounty hunter, but not really'. I guess that could be a funny joke.. She's a pretty terrible bounty hunter I guess since we never see her hunt bounties.
It was that long promotional video I linked to earlier of her narrating. The segment titled "Mother" is Samus monologuing about rescuing the Baby.
And the origin Manga. I don't know if manga like 'Samus and Joey" is canon, but the one that details her origins is pretty canon last I heard. Though still, in those commercials/promo materials and all the manga adaptions she's not portrayed as some emotionless person. When manga adaptions like the original Metroid portray her as kind of an goof, the Super Metroid adaption portrays her as a sphere obsessed airhead, and so on, it seems like Japan gets all those kinds of portrayals that America never got so that's where the issue stems from.
Mainly the commercials and manga. When one country's commercial is Samus in a skin tight suit with long camera pans over her body and her screaming, while the other is showing a female gymnast talking about being strong, courageous, and reaching for your dreams, it paints a pretty different experience.
Other M is the first game with extensive dialog and cutscenes. Fusion did a bit, but only a few blurbs between areas on an elevator. Though as you say, Other M was being set up by the manga and other things in the various games. I wonder if people would have the same reaction if the manga was released in the west and people got used to that characterization and knew she had PTSD before hand and we got similar commercials and promo material. I can see how it's jarring, though with nothing available to people. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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We've all seen shows or movies use "Nam flashback" jokes. Yeah, we don't take them seriously there either. If a movie or show wants to use PTSD as an actual serious part of of it's character then they'll have a serious tone for it. Other M is'nt being a comedy. If you're correct it wants it's PTSD to be a defining element of Samus and be used to say something about her character. To do this it never brings it up before, she makes no real remarks that allude to the fact that she suffers from this, and the monument it's over it's never brought up again. All undermined by her being sexed up for the player. Again, I ask you how this is good? How are we supposed to take her PTSD in when it's poorly done(which you haven't argued how it isn't other then it appeared in some manga, but not throughout Other M or other Metriod games, either way not an argument) and no it dosen't mix well with what you want to push as another element of the series. We're talking about a fictional character in a fictional story. Tone and how these elements are woven into the story severely matter here.
Because the funny thing is if you're going to use the manga as a source of info. People should be able use the Prime series as well. Here's the thing though, you haven't said anything to convince anybody. First you want to claim that Samus has always been sexualised and that people's ideas on her are wrong. People point out that that characterization that's in the games points to her being a strong willed character. That's why they don't like her to be sexed up a lot. You point out because of manga her characterization has always been like that. Oh and a Japanese commercial that shows her not really in underwear and also in powerful stance is also your "proof". Then I point out that in the end this is funny. You're trying to basically destroy people's idea of a character, one that was very positive. Then you want to say she has PTSD and we're being terrible to make fun of her. I point out that if thats true it's pretty terrible done. You're counter is not that it is'nt and here's how thats true, but rather here are some experts saying that ONE scene is well done. Without context, without questions about story telling and what not. I further say how that dosen't really work. You again shrug that off as people not being open without ever arguing your point. There's been no convincing. In the end-just like with GZ- you couldn't actually argue anything. Good writing is not exactly subjective. There is a baseline standard of quality. Don't pull that stupid excuse. If you are, at least tell us why the storytelling or writing is good. Something you haven't don at all and now have to fallback on lame excuses. Either way, I think we've all come to the conclusion that you've written yourself into a wall and can't argue this anymore. And so were done because you actually have no point to give.
Anyway we're done. Continue on spinning you're wheels if you must, but it's pretty obvious to anyone here that they aren't going anywhere. Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:27 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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We could discuss how awesome yet practical the avarage pair of Wild Arms boots is, but I doubt that will get people fired up 
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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No, it's not. Metroid Prime 3 had fairly extensive dialog segments. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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To be fair the girls of wild arms wore appropriate attire for it's wild west theme. Rebecca from wild arms 5 comes to mind given her get-up but again it fits the theme. I would rather be talking about the new possibilities of a wild arms game as well. Instead I'm stuck having to weed through comments to quote on because I don't want to take part in that discussion. |
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|comicchaser|
 Posts: 54 |
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Yeah, that thing about Sakamoto and Hunters… What a strange man. So, can we agree on that it's in fact not a mistranslation and/or the "fault" of stubborn western (game-) media, that the term is being used here and in Japan? The english manual of the first Metroid also uses "space hunter", so same as in the japanese one btw.
But you do know that those two (if you mean the 4-panel thing concerning Super Metroid, which is the only one I found) are closer to being caricatures than anything else? If you take a look into weekly famitsu issues from that time, you'll find goofy SD mini strips, which take a lot of freedoms with the source material, to many popular game series. Not exactly what I'd consider a "real characterization" that one could seriously believe shaped her image considerably. The Fusion manga from 2002 is different in that it was official and, above all, directly connected to the game's story and expanded it. But even the impact of that one is questionable without knowing what kind of circulation it had. My guess is: it, as well, didn't have a considerable one.
In which way? I'd really like to know. You emphasize a lot how relevant that one ZM commercial is concerning the allegedly different way of representation and perception of the character in Japan compared to the western world, but I just don't see that. It's neither a very meaningful one as a whole, nor does it seem to try really hard in being a faithful depiction of the games (you remember that part in the game, were samus creates a shockwave by screaming? yeah, me neither). Had it aired here back then, no one would have given a damn or thought much about it. Why? Because it's just a really short cm maybe. The point I'm trying to make: you search for a difference in the perception of the character, which most likely just isn't there and in the end is not much more than speculation. What one can easily see though, is that in fact Other M spawned pretty much the same spectrum of opinions towards it (and Samus) and divided the fans who cared about that characterization aspect probably as much there, as it did here. If you look at, e.g., amazon japan or mk2, the picture the reviews paint is by and large identical to what you find on western counterparts. It's certainly an issue which was discussed there a lot as well. |
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belvadeer
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Speaking of the ladies of Wild Arms, I'd like to ask, would you like the protagonist of the next game-in-development to be female? We've had Virginia and Clarissa so far, and they were both good leaders. Last edited by belvadeer on Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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Might not mean much but...
http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-metroid-other-m/ |
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