Forum - View topicREVIEW: Maoyu Sub.Blu-Ray
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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And yet the church never opposed to the printing press and it quickly grew in popularity and spread to every region of europe in a few year. Before the printing press copying a bible meant having a monk copy the entire thing, it would takes months. Meaning many community with church literally had no bible or had really old decrepit one. After they could easily makes thousands of bible, that meant they could afford to give them to missionary and send them all over the world. If you see the church in medieval time as nothing but this monolithic evil organization you lose so much interesting nuance, something which this show decided to do. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I'm curious, what was the "massive turn-off" of the first episode? I don't think the first episode was amazing or ground-breaking, but I don't think it was audience insulting either. LH takes a little while to establish it's base and has obvious otaku pandering bits in there, but once it gets going is REALLY good. I think it updates Maoyu by adding several obviously "modern" aspects to the world-building standards.
I actually much prefer Maoyu over Spice & Wolf for a reason alluded to in the review. Where Maoyu is very "broad", S&W is very focused. While the latter no doubt helps from a "plot" perspective, I think the broader examination suffers. I agree with Key that I think Maoyu is great as a mental "academic" exercise and pretty realistic on the effects that certain choices have. To assume that a person, group or organization would go along with something simply because it is "beneficial" is naive. Look at any national government and you can see that leadership is a system of backroom deals and selfish, myopic choices. A prosperous populace can be more self-sufficient and may not be as supportive of the "ruling authority". I admit I only got through most of the first season of Spice & Wolf, but I was disappointed in it after hearing of how it addressed similar concepts to Maoyu. But I felt it did it in a very narrowly applicable way. You get a plot about currency manipulation that relies on coin weight and wouldn't really apply to modern currency. Whereas in Maoyu, you get a broader macro economic scheme that involved exchange rates and inflation that one could directly parallel to modern monetary policy. I think, while that is also a flaw, it is also Maoyu's strength that it really only uses the fantasy/medieval trappings to wrap up the broader concepts, whereas (IMO) Spice & Wolf is more directly a story set in a medieval/fantasy world. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I am still a bit amazed that you have decided not to watch Log Horizon. It is without a doubt one of the best (if not the best) fantasy anime series in years. Everyone acknowledges that the first episode was a blunder. I commented to the same effect in the preview talkback - I said it was terrible. But everyone who stuck with the show (well almost everyone) was quickly amazed by how the show turned things around very quickly after. The things Log Horizon does with its side characters, for example, is beyond fantastic. I've rarely seen a show treat every single character, from the protagonist to the least important side character, with absolute dignity and respect. Nearly everyone gets developed. (I guess the writing used some ingenious tricks in developing multiple characters simultaneously in order to accomplish that in a limited amount of time, since there are SO many characters, but you grow to care about all of them.) The action AND medieval/fantasy economics type stuff is there, and executed quite well. There's magic, tactics, and character drama. The main protagonist is awesome. AND, the "people of the land" side plot is probably the best side plot that I have ever seen in an anime. Log Horizon is a tour de force, which is why it was renewed for a second season. I understand why people want to like Maoyu. It did have great aspirations, but it just fell flat in too many areas, MOST importantly, the very contrived love story that was jammed down the collective audience's throat from the first few moments that the two protagonists saw each other. tl:dnr - If you want to see a show that brilliantly achieves everything that Maoyu falls short on, watch Log Horizon. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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To be fair to Maoyu the "romance" is obviously a loose construct upon which to build the rest. It is clearly not the "focus" of the story but instead gives the two primaries a reason to work together and gives other "conflicts" a reason to happen. Gundam Wing had Relena fall in love with Heero, why? because "plot"! That "romance" never gets developed either, why? because that's not the point. I mean, if you want to talk disappointment on the "romance" from in Maoyu: spoiler[I wish there was a sequel if ONLY for the budding relationship between the merchant and the dragon princess, two SAAVY people who turned into converts for the "changing world" rather than just starting as "things should be better" idealists like the Demon King and Hero kind of are.] |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18195 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Disliked the artistry for one; apparently this is one of those series where I just can't appreciate what everyone else sees in the aesthetics. The silly/serious mix did not work for me at all, nor did the characters, and I felt that it didn't do enough initially to distance itself from other "stuck in a game" concepts (especially SAO - and yes, before anyone comments on that, remember that it was a judgment based solely on the first episode). Basically, nothing about the first episode grabbed me or distinguished itself; IIRC, I gave it a low Preview Guide score. (In fairness, though, none of us previewers gave it above a 2.5.) Many have said the series gets better later, but apparently that's several episodes later. And meiam: What the others have said since my last post is correct. While the Church historically didn't resist the printing press, they most definitely did resist developments that should have theoretically furthered the spread of Christianity like translating the Bible into vernacular languages. (And besides, they're not shown being in opposition to the printing press in this series anyway, so I don't know why you're bothering to bring that point up as an example.) |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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That's a fair point, I started the show for certain reasons but I admit to not being super impressed with the first episode. I was curious tho because your comment about it being a "massive turnoff" implies that it was so repellent you refuse to contemplate going back. Whereas the above quote sounds more like "meh, I didn't like it so not gonna waste me time". The reason I note the distinction is because now that season 1 is finished I think it's worth checking if you liked the interpretations in Maoyu. (as noted by John, it does have the same author) I would've dropped Madoka Magica based only on the 1st episode if I hadn't gone into it with the foreknowledge that it improves later. To be fair to the criticism, the first 4 episodes or so DO tread familiar ground of "stuck in a game, morality of game world v. real world, etc." But Log Horizon's strength (IMO) is the "optimism" of the protagonists, who decide to make the game world better rather than agonizing about how to get out. Again, I know people who REFUSE to watch One Piece because they hate the aesthetic, but if you LIKE Maoyu then I think Log Horizon is worth watching. I don't think they are the "same", but like Maoyu it's a "fantasy" story that goes beyond "put the pointy end in the enemy". |
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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I completely agree with HeeroTX above. The first four or so episodes are nothing special, but Log Horizon really gets much better. It does end up hitting the same themes as you mentioned for MaoYu in the review. (A little less fanservice thanks to being on NHK but some slapstick.) I think there's a lot more in common between LH and MaoYu than LH and SAO, and I encourage you to give it a shot. The reviews of the full series here were very positive, unlike the first episode.
I completely understand deciding based on a first episode or two that a show isn't worth your time; there's so much out there and Sturgeon's Law applies. Log Horizon is a rare exception and worth it if you liked MaoYu IMHO. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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Hmm, sounds like something I might enjoy. I'll check it out if it's still on Crunchyroll.
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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I bring up the printing press just to show how incredibly lazy the show is with the way it treat the church (and many other case). The show assume that they didn't need to explain why the church would want to get rid of Mao, by simply assuming that watcher will agree that the church is evil because of the pre conceived notion that it was during the medieval era.
I can accept that sometime people/institution behave in irrational way, but they should still explain it. The show doesn't, it goes "Hey church=evil" and apparently the audience just nodded and went along even thought it makes absolutely no sense. So the show not only expected but actually want the audience to turn off it's brain and not think about the event there seeing. On S&W and it's application to today world. The currency manipulation arc is still completely relevant, (it didn't depend on the currency weight but rather it's purity), second it was mostly about currency trust, which is still a huge deal, that's why if you watch economy show they'll take about how much different currency are trading at. It's really important right now because of the europe crisis, where smaller country can't devalue there own currency to increase it (which was the plan of the kingdom involved in the scheme), it also touch on inflation and country economic domination. The point of that arc is that the money we use is still being control by entity that might have interest in modifying it. S&W explain simple concept and applied them at large. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18195 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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What about this scenario doesn't make sense? Branding someone as a heretic and/or threatening excommunication is a long-standing political ploy as well as a way to fend off ideas that might undermine a power base. The Catholic Church has historically used it on many occasions, as have various Protestant denominations and Muslim sects and doubtless other religions that preceded them. Later in the series the practical mechanics behind why the church might do this are explicitly explained: because greater overall prosperity is not necessarily in the best interests of those at the top of the power structure, as it destabilizes their ability to control things. Nothing about this scenario requires the church to be looked on as evil; it only requires them to be regarded as an entity invested in their own self-interest. So yes, the series quite succinctly does explain why the church would want to get rid of Crimson Scholar. And the double irony here is, of course, that a) she's not in league with demons but actually is a demon (in fact, the leading one), and b) the church's fears actually aren't misguided, as they have a lot more to fear from her than they realize. That's one of the things I loved the most about that particular scenario. |
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Primus
 Posts: 2771 Location: Toronto |
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I've never heard of this show but was intrigued by the review's attached art. It looked very Akihiko Yoshida-esque, so I searched it up ... it's the plot.gif show.
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2246 |
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Welp, looks like it's time for me to dive into this show. I fully admit, it was the main demon's design alone that turned me away from this show--that, and the "it's about economics" tagline everyone threw my way. Personally, I find economics boring, or I did, until I saw what Log Horizon could do with economics and the like in an unusual setting. Gonna' take a leap of faith!
One of these days, maybe I'll work up enough courage to try out Spice and Wolf. >.> |
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Janitor Tzap
 Posts: 38 |
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Personally I liked the show.
My only big quam with it. Is that it was so rushed, especially at the end. There was so much going on behind the scenes, that needed to be fleshed out more. I hope another season is in the works. Where they ended it, was at a pivotal point. Thus, I was left hanging not knowing what the out come was going too be. 
Signed: Janitor Tzap |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I love this show, but even I was gobsmacked by the positivity in this review.
MAOYU does have its strengths, no doubt about that. It has a unique, compelling and powerful premise, its actual plot is filled with stuff like politics and economics which give me a hard-on (metaphorically-speaking, LOL), and the lead couple are cute together. And of course there is the undoubtedly terrific "I Am Human" speech. That all said the show just has too many faults to be considered good, and the general writing is tragically and almost epically sloppy. MAOYU had immense potential but, in one of the biggest travesties in the past few years, largely squandered it. It absolutely deserves kudos for being different and capturing the imagination, and its quest to go off the beaten path is very commendable. But unfortunately the execution didn't even come close to matching the vision. I feel like all we got so see was the shadow or husk of a truly great show. I can only imagine what MAOYU would have been like in all its glory had it lived up to its potential. Had the writing been up to scratch, I personally believe it would've not been out of line to mention in the same breath as PMMM. Ah, what could have been . . . Epic box art though. |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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This show frustrated me in all of the things it did poorly, because it avoided so many other annoying things.
Hero and Demon Queen were a great couple with actual chemistry! They never spend time together. Arms Studio was extremely restrained in their fanservice!... Too bad they weren't much more ambitious in other areas. Female Knight is a cool character!... She's an annoying third wheel that does not benefit the story's romantic conflict. It'd have been more interesting if she didn't like Hero. I was invested in the story!... Too bad they ended on that annoying cliffhanger. I'll buy this series when I can, regardless. I love the cast, music, and character design too much. |
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