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The List - 7 Useless Magic Attacks


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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2459
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:10 am Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
although do they even have nuclear reactors in Academy City? I was under the impression they get all of their powers from the windmills prominently visible in the first ED of A Certain Scientific Railgun. (I don't know if you could run a whole city on windmill power in real life, but everything in Academy City is decades more advanced than the rest of Japan, so I presume each of their windmills can produce as much power as a nuclear reactor because, you know, "science" and "magic").


They have several different power sources but wind turbines are the main, while they also have solar, nuclear and geothermal.

Mikeski wrote:
She can keep a thing at its existing temperature. It's limited by what she can hold comfortably, so the object must still transfer heat away from itself (or into itself.) So she could keep a heater running by touching it when it ran out of fuel. She can keep an ice cube cold in the middle of the desert. Her existence violates the laws of thermodynamics. It violates conservation of matter/energy. She. is. a. perpetual. motion. machine. The Philosopher's Stone of physics, with an adorable headband.


Honestly powers in Index breaking conservation of matter/energy ain't that rare. There's a guy that can literally just create matter. And give it whatever physical properties he wants to give them.
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:30 am Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
Honestly powers in Index breaking conservation of matter/energy ain't that rare.

Her relative power in the series isn't what's in question, what's in question is "is she useless"?

(Actually, I'm not sure why she's on a list of useless magic "attacks", since her power is not an attack. It's a "utility" power. Though so are some of the others on the list.)

If you went to the USPTO with "I have a perpetual-motion machine, but it doesn't scale up past 1000 watts"... you'd still have won at life. Her power is not "useless".

With the level of tech shown in the show... how many nifty things could you do with someone who could keep a moderately-sized aluminum heat sink at a comfy sixty degrees... forever? No matter how much heat it was absorbing? You might even consider her power an attack if she was sinking heat from, say, some ultra-compact laser weaponry. Even just considering modern Earth technology, rate-of-fire of automatic weapons is often based on heat (one of the reasons for the rotating barrels on a "minigun")...

I suppose I should offer a replacement, though. How about that bad guy in Witch Hunter Robin who... trips people? Or Yukino in Mai-Hime... a swarm of magical drone-cams is cool, unless you've been spoiler[entered against your will in a "Two Mahou Shoujo Enter, One Mahou Shoujo Leaves" tournament... and everyone else got stuff like "a dragon" or "a howitzer-panther"...]
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2516
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:32 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Yes, Wind tunnel gets rid of a couple of otherwise intractable demons if I'm not mistaken, so very useful. And don't dis Sweets Conjuring too much either, in D.C.2 Junichi conjures a banana filled treat and "saves" Minatsu-chan in her story arc so...ya who am I kidding, it's useless otherwise. What a pain...


Depends on how Conjuring Sweets works. Can the user also control the exact location where the sweets forms? Is there a limit to how many he can produce? If the limit is high, he can be quite useful on a disaster relief team. If he can locate an enemy's aorta and conjure up a jawbreaker at that spot...


Good ideas, but too advanced for DaCapo. Junichi and Yoshiyuki can only make Japanese Sweets materialize in thier hands and nowhere else and it is heavily insinuated that they are produced from the "materials" in thier bodies so they were only ever able to make enough at once as a snack for a few friends. It was only useful the one time for Minatsu-chan in D.C.2 but one could think of much more use it could be put to.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14763
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:26 am Reply with quote

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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:31 am Reply with quote
Miroku's Wind Tunnel is hardly "Useless". Dangerous for him to use, yes; useless, no.

And the Ferrous Bleed spell Lina used can be used to summon other things; she just made it be a bird. She does a lot more with a lot of other spells in the books. When it comes down to dealing with the baddies she encountered throughout, no spell she used against them is useless all considering.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:58 am Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
Although, it could just mean her hands are the source of her powers; she isn't going to burn her shoes off or something. It's not like we haven't seen other ESPer abilities go from touch to remote. Awaki started with normal teleportation (herself and whatever she touches), but after becoming traumatized by getting her foot stuck in a wall she developed Move Point (remote teleportation). It's been theorized by fans that if she got over her fears of self teleportation she could become a level 5. Likewise it's believed that developing Move Point is the only thing keeping Kuroko from level 5. It's actually interesting how those two were both able to achieve level 4 by honing different skills in the same ability. It means that not all abilities have a distinct path to leveling.

EMerje


I don't think anything in the LN actually said she started out with a power requiring touch. The fact that it was thought she could reach level 5 though was in the LN and not just fans theorizing though I'm pretty sure it said 'could' and not 'would.'

Kuroko and Awaki don't have nor did they ever have the same ability. One esper, one power. You can't change it, and that was directly stated to be a rule. Awaki's power was always move point. They aren't two evolutions of the same power. They just have similar, but fundamentally different powers. Awaki didn't develop move point because of her trauma. She just became extremely hesitant to use her power on herself because of her trauma.

But since you brought up Kuroko, there is another example of a high level esper that still has to touch things and a good example of why you likely can't change from requiring touch to not requiring it. The difference between Kuroko and Awaki's powers was explained to be that Awaki's works on a 2 variable coordinate system where as Kuroko's is always centered on herself. If a power works with the esper as a reference point then you aren't going to be able to change that even if you power it up because it would work fundamentally differently thus not being the same power. And again, one person, one power. It can't be changed.


Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Running Wild





PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:02 am Reply with quote
Where's Mafuba/Evil Containment Wave from Dragon Ball?
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WingKing



Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 617
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
EricJ2 wrote:
What about Jurai Andou's "Dark and Dark" from When Supernatural Battles Become Commonplace?
An anemic flicker of dark flame from the hands doesn't really look all that impressive when the other members have powers that actually do something, but he manages to build up the hype through overacting.


This was my first thought for the list. The power is completely useless, and even when he does figure out spoiler[how to make it do something it only burns himself.] It's only useful because he's a convincing liar.


First one I thought of also. Of course, that's part of the joke, that the kid who wanted superpowers more than any of them gets saddled with the worst one.

Also, the "Jikerdor" spell from Zatch Bell. Sweet, I can turn my opponent into a human magnet and leave him stuck to metal so he can't move. Oh, wait, there isn't any metal around here.
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Seiru



Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Oh Uiharu how I love you and your power. She just screwed training and went to computers. Laughing

And for useless magic,the first thing that came to my mind was Cardcaptor Sakura.I haven't watched it,so correct me if I'm wrong,but when my brother was watching it I noticed a episode with a sweet card or something and all I was thinking was that you can throw pies at people hassle-free!

So that one came to mind.Also I think there was a bubbly card just to bathe Kero.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
Covnam wrote:
When I saw this weeks list, I immediately thought of the main character from Modern Magic Made Simple who can only summon wash basins. I didn't finish it, so maybe it changes, but other then hitting someone on the head, not that useful.
How about in place of #6...

spoiler[She goes all Imagine Breaker with it, eventually. Turns other people's offensive spells into washbasins.]


She can also start a wash basin business with almost no capital. Though that also depends on the variety and quality of the wash basins she can produce.

Mikeski wrote:
I suppose I should offer a replacement, though. How about that bad guy in Witch Hunter Robin who... trips people? Or Yukino in Mai-Hime... a swarm of magical drone-cams is cool, unless you've been spoiler[entered against your will in a "Two Mahou Shoujo Enter, One Mahou Shoujo Leaves" tournament... and everyone else got stuff like "a dragon" or "a howitzer-panther"...]


The ability to trip people would be an effective way of neutralizing people without inflicting serious harm on them. It would be very valuable to the police.

As for the swarm of magical drone-cams, I'd have to know more about how that works and what the context of the fighting tournament is to assess if it's truly useful in that situation or not.

Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Good ideas, but too advanced for DaCapo. Junichi and Yoshiyuki can only make Japanese Sweets materialize in thier hands and nowhere else and it is heavily insinuated that they are produced from the "materials" in thier bodies so they were only ever able to make enough at once as a snack for a few friends. It was only useful the one time for Minatsu-chan in D.C.2 but one could think of much more use it could be put to.


Ah, okay then. Sounds like they thought this power through, putting limitations on it to make it as useless as possible.

Running Wild wrote:
Where's Mafuba/Evil Containment Wave from Dragon Ball?


This is about techniques that don't have any useful obvious application in combat, not ones that are used only against enemies that are too quick or too smart to fall victim to it.

WingKing wrote:
Also, the "Jikerdor" spell from Zatch Bell. Sweet, I can turn my opponent into a human magnet and leave him stuck to metal so he can't move. Oh, wait, there isn't any metal around here.


Use another Jikerdor spell and attach that opponent to something else. This is assuming Kiyomaru's had no time to prepare by attaching hidden magnets onto things or picking his battlefields. Kiyomaru is supposed to be good at finding useless spells and making good use out of them. He ought to know better.

Seiru wrote:
Oh Uiharu how I love you and your power. She just screwed training and went to computers. Laughing

And for useless magic,the first thing that came to my mind was Cardcaptor Sakura.I haven't watched it,so correct me if I'm wrong,but when my brother was watching it I noticed a episode with a sweet card or something and all I was thinking was that you can throw pies at people hassle-free!

So that one came to mind.Also I think there was a bubbly card just to bathe Kero.


Well, the Joker throws corrosive pies at people.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4084
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:27 pm Reply with quote
The Law of Ueki is a battle title built around useless magical attacks, the main character alone can turn trash into trees and that's his main attack ability. But he's not the useless one, it's Ai Mori who gains the ability to make people into glasses fetishists whom she can beat just by wearing glasses but she can only do that if they strike one particular pose. Once the rest of the fighters learn what pose not to make, she's done.

It's the 100% exact opposite of Miroku's wind tunnel and probably a parody of the "over powered skill" fighter that has to get hamstringed by the writer in hindsight. Ai's ability was made prenerfed and pretty much thought of as such by her group.

4 I don't know how any summoning spell is useless, "cannon fodder" and the like, so I would put summoning a dove higher than summoning a ball of light as an attack spell. Imagine if you were stuck on an Ark and you wanted to get an olive branch...

3 Kazakai Uihara's ability? Scrooge McDuck would pay her a million dollars an hour for her to hold the billion dollar ball of melting bombastium until he got it to the Antarctic. I mean, it's only useless because the writers have little imagination, or interest, for it to be used. Pizza delivery? Maintaining the temperature on a super computer? Earl grey, hot? A bomb is on a bus and it can't get any hotter than room temperature? Any job is a job for Superman but when you're Suretemp Hand, you're just part time help but not entirely useless. Unless you're created to be an example of that one mutant who doesn't get the flashy X-Men outfit but I'd still rate Uihara higher than Jubilee though.

2 The Candy Man? Still higher than Jubilee because he can throw some mean caramels. Couldn't he make a fortune at any event where queue's form? What about Candy Man's possible archenemies like Sweet Tooth and the Deadly Dentist? How do you think they would feel?

1 Go, Magical Giant Salamander! Go, Magical Men's Dress Shirt! If you're going to mention an entire useless Magical Girl, you may as well mention the ultimate example of Behoimi from Pani Poni Dash as she's far more useful as her (un)usual secret agent identity than her Soothing Magical Girl form, something that her former teammate Media mocks mercilessly. Unless that one is the delusion which she took to after her real Magical Girl identity was found out? I never realized how complex it could be.

It's not. Maybe.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:57 pm Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:
4 I don't know how any summoning spell is useless, "cannon fodder" and the like, so I would put summoning a dove higher than summoning a ball of light as an attack spell. Imagine if you were stuck on an Ark and you wanted to get an olive branch...
It's also significantly quicker to cast, too. But, even if we were to assume that, contra BodaciousSpacePirate, it has no normal combat uses, it just screams "ritualistic spell", making Lina's use a clever co-opting(which is how I always took it).
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2459
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:
3 Kazakai Uihara's ability? Scrooge McDuck would pay her a million dollars an hour for her to hold the billion dollar ball of melting bombastium until he got it to the Antarctic. I mean, it's only useless because the writers have little imagination, or interest, for it to be used. Pizza delivery? Maintaining the temperature on a super computer? Earl grey, hot? A bomb is on a bus and it can't get any hotter than room temperature? Any job is a job for Superman but when you're Suretemp Hand, you're just part time help but not entirely useless. Unless you're created to be an example of that one mutant who doesn't get the flashy X-Men outfit but I'd still rate Uihara higher than Jubilee though.


iirc, in one of the spin-off 4-koma Railgun manga, she can't even keep a bath tub or a kotatsu in a temperature she likes for over a few minutes. There's nothing to indicate she can handle sudden big temperature changes like a bomb and it seems she actually gets tired easily.
Plus, in the universe, there's plenty that's much more useful and I believe that's what the author was going for (though I disagree with even thinking you can call her power an attack)
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TheFullmetalOne



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 170
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:

Although, it could just mean her hands are the source of her powers; she isn't going to burn her shoes off or something. It's not like we haven't seen other ESPer abilities go from touch to remote. Awaki started with normal teleportation (herself and whatever she touches), but after becoming traumatized by getting her foot stuck in a wall she developed Move Point (remote teleportation). It's been theorized by fans that if she got over her fears of self teleportation she could become a level 5. Likewise it's believed that developing Move Point is the only thing keeping Kuroko from level 5. It's actually interesting how those two were both able to achieve level 4 by honing different skills in the same ability. It means that not all abilities have a distinct path to leveling.

EMerje


Didn't she self-teleport into Mikoto's shower stall once early on in Railgun to cop a feel (which had the hilarious and extremely justifiable effect of getting Misaka's fist planted in her face).
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:50 am Reply with quote
She did, but that scene was basically a copy of a scene in the LN where Mikoto tries to hit her and Kuroko ends up kicking her instead.
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