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Answerman - Why Is It Unusual For Japanese People To Use Computers?


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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Heishi wrote:
And here I thought Japan would be a beacon of computer technology.

How else will anime fans in Japan get their anime fix other than DVDs?

They use DVRs and record them from TV broadcasts. Or watch them on TV, depending on the time of day and whether they can or want to.
Rinkwolf wrote:
Evangelion take place in 1998 if I'm not mistaken

The current year is in the very first frame of episode 1 (after the OP): 2015 A.D. There was the odd article on this website and others about it being the year Eva was set in, and they fittingly released the series on Blu-Rei, coinciding as well with the show's 20th anniversary.
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:05 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Do people in Japan use speech-to-text to write now?
They mostly just use IMEs - input Roman characters which the machine first converts to kana and then to kanji if necessary (the most popular input method for mobile phones cuts out step 1). The only time I've seen a Japanese person use speech-to-text was when my landlord tried to communicate with a Chinese tenant using the Google Translate app (it didn't really work, though more because of the quality of translation rather than the voice recognition). Oh, and there's also Siri, not sure if that counts.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:21 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
Well...do you have any actual data to refute what Justin's saying? Or any of the reports and surveys that he's cited?


The only "hard fact" Justin had was the OECD data. Everything else is just secondhand info he either got from Japantimes or his own "objective" take of the country. You know, because you can't be caught dead saying Japan is better or else be labeled a weaboo on the comments these days. Also, the fact that he's affirming his bias through anime makes it even more suspect. But here, I'll throw you a bone and give you a hard evidence to the contrary.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/techlit/docs/Levels%20of%20Use.pdf

As far as this document is concerned, Japanese people aren't computer illiterate dullards who supposedly "can't into computers."
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2246
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:39 pm Reply with quote
Not entirely sure what you're trying to say with that document. It's talking about kids going to school in Maryland, and most of the schools I've been to have a computer lab of some sort, even if it's fairly basic*. If you're trying to make a point about general computer proficiency in the US, though, I'd argue that most people my age (twenties and slightly above) know how to do, if not all, than most of the "Intermediate" stuff, as well as a few basic "Proficient" stuff.

That said, I'm still not sure that has much of anything to do with Japan's general computer proficiency levels. Now, if you had, say, a document detailing the level of computer literacy expected from a public school student in Japan, then at least we'd have something to compare and contrast with. Otherwise, this just seems to reinforce that schools in the US place a high priority on computer literacy.

EDIT: *I did some digging; apparently most schools in Japan DO also have computer labs, they just don't seem to get used with the same regularity as in the US, which, when I went to school, usually had at least one class booked for a turn in the computer lab, regardless of the subject (though Economics and Social Studies tended to be the most common).
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Afezeria



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 817
Location: Malaysia, Kuantan.
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:18 pm Reply with quote
Paiprince wrote:
You know, because you can't be caught dead saying Japan is better or else be labeled a weaboo on the comments these days.
Which is downright annoying and insulting because people can apparently like other countries without being labeled as something but for liking Japan, no, you gonna get bombarded with all sort of things, even if their interest in the country is apart from the usual beside from liking anime and manga. Then again, some fans are overstating too much about the nation and praising it beyond belief (these so called weeaboos) which would be understandable to received huge amount of hate (which a group of people that I rarely notice on the internet and I would not even cared enough to do anything upon seeing them any way) but nowadays, hating on those that like Japan even to the smallest degree or caught watching anime and such are still being labeled as weeb as part of that internet meme. Nothing could be done about it though but just to ignore it and get through with your life doing whatever you preferred until the end.

On topic, it's really is quite surprising seeing that Japan is quite modern in various department, including making robots and such but I guess you learn something all the time. I got a laptop and a desktop, and always used them but mostly to listened to songs, watching anime or movies and playing games. My course doesn't required extensive usage of Microsoft Word related software.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Paiprince wrote:
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/techlit/docs/Levels%20of%20Use.pdf

As far as this document is concerned, Japanese people aren't computer illiterate dullards who supposedly "can't into computers."

I read the entire document and I have to agree that, upon hindsight, Justin's viewpoint concerning Japan's computer literacy seems a bit misguided...
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southplumb



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Durham, North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:27 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:
One thing I've thought in regards to the business side of this is that maybe the permanent employment system might have something to do with Japan's sluggishness to embrace new technology. Say a company has a chance to acquire a new system or program that, once learned, can allow one person to do the work of two. Since they essentially can't remove the second person, they would have to find something else for that person to do. At that point, it might seem a lot easier to stick with the old-fashioned method.


It's surprising that computer use in Japan is low, given its image and people claiming that complicated kanji are being forgotten or not used. While the US and other countries seem to be rushing to embrace a world in which computers and robots eliminate many human jobs, even jobs requiring college education, creating fears that a jobless future might be coming, and I doubt that means a leisure society, maybe Japan is an unexpected source of resistance. There's a limit to how much a nation can resist technological change, but there could be a positive side to Japanese reluctance to use new technologies, if this is true. On the other hand computers and the Internet do make a lot of things more convenient at the individual level and the Japanese seem to be missing out.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:49 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Not entirely sure what you're trying to say with that document. It's talking about kids going to school in Maryland, and most of the schools I've been to have a computer lab of some sort, even if it's fairly basic*. If you're trying to make a point about general computer proficiency in the US, though, I'd argue that most people my age (twenties and slightly above) know how to do, if not all, than most of the "Intermediate" stuff, as well as a few basic "Proficient" stuff.

That said, I'm still not sure that has much of anything to do with Japan's general computer proficiency levels. Now, if you had, say, a document detailing the level of computer literacy expected from a public school student in Japan, then at least we'd have something to compare and contrast with. Otherwise, this just seems to reinforce that schools in the US place a high priority on computer literacy.

EDIT: *I did some digging; apparently most schools in Japan DO also have computer labs, they just don't seem to get used with the same regularity as in the US, which, when I went to school, usually had at least one class booked for a turn in the computer lab, regardless of the subject (though Economics and Social Studies tended to be the most common).


It was made with American students in mind, true, but that doesn't mean the criteria couldn't be applied elsewhere. Besides, I would have to rely on Japanese only sources to get in depth information about their public schools and I couldn't possibly back up my claim if not everyone can read it.

And it also depends on the school on how much degree the labs are utilized. Tech institutions and others that focus on STEM fields obviously have more students using them. Japan also has a robust robotics industry and I'm sure as hell they couldn't have done so without computer know-how.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Afezeria wrote:
Which is downright annoying and insulting because people can apparently like other countries without being labeled as something but for liking Japan, no, you gonna get bombarded with all sort of things, even if their interest in the country is apart from the usual beside from liking anime and manga. Then again, some fans are overstating too much about the nation and praising it beyond belief (these so called weeaboos) which would be understandable to received huge amount of hate (which a group of people that I rarely notice on the internet and I would not even cared enough to do anything upon seeing them any way) but nowadays, hating on those that like Japan even to the smallest degree or caught watching anime and such are still being labeled as weeb as part of that internet meme. Nothing could be done about it though but just to ignore it and get through with your life doing whatever you preferred until the end.


This happens with any group of fans with a small but vocal and obnoxious faction, especially if they exhibit monomania over it (meaning they don't really like anything except the one thing they're a fan of). I'd say most Sonic fans and most Zelda fans enjoy most things and are pretty quiet about things, for instance, but you have the loud persnickety people with short tempers and want to shoehorn their favorite things into anything, then get upset if someone else doesn't share their opinions on everything, and it causes outsiders to have a distorted and negative view of these fans. It becomes guilt by association combined with the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

That is, I think a lot of the anti-Japan hate comes from that small group trying to shove Japanophilia in other people's faces so much that liking Japanese things becomes a berserk button.
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Faiyez



Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Afezeria wrote:
On topic, it's really is quite surprising seeing that Japan is quite modern in various department, including making robots and such


Japan has also been lagging behind in robotics for years.

Just look at the amazing stuff that comes out of Boston Dyanmics these days. We've seen nothing like that from Japan. Remember Asimo? Yeah, we didn't really hear from Asimo again because he has seen NO improvement in all these years. Same awkward, slow walking contraption that trips over itself with as little as a breeze or a pebble on the floor. These days, all Asimo does is make good PR for Honda, and that's about it.

Japan is no longer considered to be leading on many fronts.


{Edit}: No need for the insulting comment. ~ Psycho 101}
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:08 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Afezeria wrote:
Which is downright annoying and insulting because people can apparently like other countries without being labeled as something but for liking Japan, no, you gonna get bombarded with all sort of things, even if their interest in the country is apart from the usual beside from liking anime and manga. Then again, some fans are overstating too much about the nation and praising it beyond belief (these so called weeaboos) which would be understandable to received huge amount of hate (which a group of people that I rarely notice on the internet and I would not even cared enough to do anything upon seeing them any way) but nowadays, hating on those that like Japan even to the smallest degree or caught watching anime and such are still being labeled as weeb as part of that internet meme. Nothing could be done about it though but just to ignore it and get through with your life doing whatever you preferred until the end.


This happens with any group of fans with a small but vocal and obnoxious faction, especially if they exhibit monomania over it (meaning they don't really like anything except the one thing they're a fan of). I'd say most Sonic fans and most Zelda fans enjoy most things and are pretty quiet about things, for instance, but you have the loud persnickety people with short tempers and want to shoehorn their favorite things into anything, then get upset if someone else doesn't share their opinions on everything, and it causes outsiders to have a distorted and negative view of these fans. It becomes guilt by association combined with the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

That is, I think a lot of the anti-Japan hate comes from that small group trying to shove Japanophilia in other people's faces so much that liking Japanese things becomes a berserk button.


Those types have been dying off since 2010. They either mellow down in their enthusiasm or pull a 180 and join the haters thinking it's the cool thing to hate Japan. If anything, we're seeing posts like above saying choice words like this just to "prove the weebs wrong" (As if his join date and post count weren't obvious enough):

Quote:

Japan is no longer considered to be leading on many fronts.


Boston Dynamics' robots are pretty much on the same level of performance as Asimo. If anything, they don't even look aesthetically pleasing to the eye. At least Asimo knows how to cover up. Plus they're being sold off with Toyota a *gasp* Japanese company being one of its potential buyers.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:47 am Reply with quote
Let's cease with the unneeded weaboo comments and discussion please. Thank you.
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Afezeria



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 817
Location: Malaysia, Kuantan.
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 5:42 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Let's cease with the unneeded weaboo comments and discussion please. Thank you.
I wish we can just ban the usage of that word altogether. Thanks for the moderation.

@Leafy Sea Dragon : Okay, appreciated the comment. Thank you. On the other hand, I can't believed the topic about typewriter alone could reached this amount of page altogether.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:57 am Reply with quote
"Computer literacy" is a hard concept to quantify, but the comparatively low rate of computer ownership in Japan is well-known. The Ministry of Communication has collected this data periodically with the results for 2013 appearing here. Nationwide just 57% of households owned a personal computer, ranging from a low of 39% in Kochi province to a high of 66% in Aichi. In contrast, computers are present in over 80% of Korean households. The US is just a couple of points lower than Korea.

You might find this post from a Japanese student at MIT of interest.

vonPeterhof wrote:
They mostly just use IMEs - input Roman characters which the machine first converts to kana and then to kanji if necessary (the most popular input method for mobile phones cuts out step 1).

I was thinking more about offices where an investment in speech-to-text systems might make sense.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:22 am Reply with quote
It was an interesting read, and somewhat surprising, given the fact that Japan has been utilizing technologies such as NFC for over a decade now.
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