Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Isn't Idol Culture Bigger In America?
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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Yes, it has been mentioned - by people who don't grasp the nature of the idol industry and seemingly haven't bothered to read the article.
Sick and psychotic fans are one small portion of idol culture. Read the article, or at least read Jonny's comment immediately above mine. |
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Chester McCool
 Posts: 322 |
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I view being so critical and wary of idols is about as paranoid as telling your kid to never become a singer or actor because they'll end up like Lindsay Lohan or some other talent who goes crazy and gets addicted to drugs and lives in rehab, or molested by some Harvey Weinstein type. It's an irrational fear out of a small anecdote. I subscribe to a number of idol channels on YouTube, most of which are run by women, and a number of which run by mothers with their kids. I don't buy into the 'internalized sexism' mindset because it comes off condescending, like they're too dumb to know 'the truth' unlike the enlightened outsider. And I'm more inclined to trust actual Japanese citizens over westerners when it comes to a Japanese industry and culture, especially one mired in half-truths and whispers through the grapevines. I mean, Japan has a lot of stereotypes about various American industries and culture that I'm sure some people would find offensive or dismiss as bogus. |
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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I think you're making a bit of an unfair comparison there. You're comparing a small segment of the Japanese entertainment business (Idols) with the American entertainment industry as a whole. Of course there are many people in Western entertainment who have a "bad boy" or "bad girl" image, where various legal and personal issues are embraced--sometimes on their own merits, and sometimes simply for the publicity (read: viral marketing) that scandal creates. Japan has that too. And in both cases it has nothing to do with "Idols", rather it's an entirely unrelated side of showbiz. The Western equivalent of Idols--the Disney or Nickelodeon stars, boy or girl bands marketed to teens, etc, have the same image concerns that you described for idols. Take Justin Bieber, for example. I have read that one of the largest reasons for his success was his squeaky-clean image which made him easily marketable and acceptable to parents who were concerned about which artists or performers their daughters were following. The moment one of these people is found to have a 'problem' which tarnishes that image then that career is over as the industry drops them like a hot potato. Perhaps they may be able to move into a different career as a result of that scandal, but once the squeaky clean image is shattered then they are out from the "Idol" role. |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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In my country, the image that come from those Disney stars are what i describe above so maybe i was unfair with those. It was as they have a image on TV screen and another outside of the screen. But from what i know of Japan entertainment business, even after those former Japanese idols graduate from been a idol, they have to keep a clean image (except they can have BF/GF/marriage). A small drugs offense or scandal is enough to been finished in the entertainment industry like sometimes are reported in ANN. Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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That's fair. If I had to guess, I'd say you probably heard of them because they received bad publicity. The reason why it was so newsworthy was because it was shocking to people that these people's sqeaky-clean image was suddenly destroyed by whatever it was that they did. When those things happened their Disney (etc.) careers were over. I thought you were referring to, say, rock musicians engaged in crazy antics (though that was more of a '70's through early '90's thing), or Hip-Hop, which seems to encourage destructive behavior.
That would certainly be career suicide for a Disney or Nickelodeon star. Either company would fire them on the spot. |
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2125 |
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When I rewatched Perfect Blue tonight, this part of the article came to mind. I had forgotten, or maybe it never registered when I first saw it in 2010, but there's a few lines that clearly establish the movie in the context of a general idol decline that seems preposterous from a 2010s perspective. Heck, that's mostly why Mima decided to become an actress -- the money just wasn't there in the idol industry. In today's world of Idolm@ster, Love Live, AKB48, Momoiro Clover Z, Babymetal, Aikatsu, Nogizaka46, and so much more, this element may be even more dated than the "HOW DO WEB" bits with Mima's brand-new Macintosh Performa. Come to think of it, it may have even been almost dated when the movie came out -- Morning Musume's first official single debuted half a year later. (Though the Performa had been retired months before, so that's probably more dated.) |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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I didn't really see the huge difference and the article is full of inaccuracies. He argues basically that idols in Japan are portrayed as regular people while idols in the US are portrayed as gods and goddesses. He also argues that US pop idols are really talented while Japanese idols are not, which is not remotely true: people Britney Spears, Rihanna and Caty Perry have no real talent. Their songs are composed by (usually Scandinavian) studio musicians and their voices are electronically edited (or even generated) they are chosen to be pop idols because they are just pretty and willing to do the job. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/hit-charade/403192/ While it's not true that Japanese idols don't have above average looks. It's just that Japanese beauty is more focused on being "cute" while US beauty is more focused on being "sexy". In my view the difference is more about the degree of diversity of Japanese culture. That's because Japanese popular culture is more diverse and developed so instead of this monolithic homogeneous entity that is called "mainstream culture" in the US, Japan has a plurality of well developed niches that appeal to more specific tastes. This is reflected in their idols: instead of just a few "mainstream" idols we have a huge variety and diversity. It's kinda like the Western underground progressive rock and heavy metal fields but instead it's made up of underground pop idols. But, looking objectively at it: Love Live is a show about a bunch of young people trying to get popular by forming a "group" whose activity is performing singing and dancing shows. I think that there already is a huge number of American movies and shows featuring the exact same premise. The main difference is that they don't use the word "idols", instead they use the word "famous". I guess the difference between the two words is that "idol" means having at least a small but dedicated fanbase while "famous" means becoming "mainstream", that is, having a huge fanbase. The difference in the configuration of both idol cultures it's more a reflection of two types of cultures: a plural and diverse ecology of Japanese subcultures instead of this monolithic block that is American mainstream culture.
That's because of cultural differences but both of then provide the same good: escapism. The difference is that Japanese culture is a conformist and hard working culture that values maturity and responsibility hence the way the Japanese people break social convention is by behaving like a child. That is, being "kaiwaii", childlike and "moe" actually represents a big middle finger pointed at Japanese cultural norms and provide a feeling of escapism from those norms. In Western culture, sex, drugs and irresponsible behavior provide escapism: Western culture is prudish and values law and order. Hence, sex, drugs and irresponsible behavior are a big middle finger pointed at Western cultural norms. Hence, these badly behaving Western celebrities are the Western equivalents to the purity and cuteness displayed by the Japanese idols. Japanese idols are usually younger also because they need to project a image of childlike cuteness while Western idols can be older (but usually are still young, under the age of 40) but they need to look good and project an image of being sexually mature. I should point out that Western culture is rather ambivalent about sex. It's true that there are far fewer adult Westerners who are virgins than Japanese but it's also true that westerners get very easily freaked out by anything remotely sexual in things like anime, for instance, a cartoon like Keijo is something that would never be acceptable in Western culture. I think both things have a causal relationship: in Japan people have easy access to a lot of erotic material that substitutes real sex while Westerners seek the real thing because it's the only socially acceptable way of getting sexual satisfaction. |
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Jonny Mendes
Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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Not too long ago i watched a program in NHK world channel. And they talked about idols in Japan, Interviewing people on the street. And not only the teens and young adults, but also older people including elders (males and females). They talked about how they like the cuteness and moe of the idols but the elder people look at young idols like the idols are their own daughters/sons, granddaughters/grandsons and support then, buying the CD's, going to concerts, etc, because they want them to grow up in the industry and be famous and successful with good behavior, hard work and education like they are family. It was different from the usual image of crazy idol otaku that come out many times in western media. Also it was fun to see a pair of 65yo ladies singing and dancing in the side walk some of the more easy steps/gestures made by Morning Musume in their musics, with their husbands also singing at their side. |
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DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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All I can say is "you can lead a horse to water". Because you keep claiming he's wrong, but you have yet to substantiate that claim. |
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