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The idea of chaotic-evil monsters has been around forever, of course; Tolkien's infamous orcs inspired so much of what we know as modern tabletop fantasy.

LOTR itself, of course, is more nuanced than Goblin Slayer or what it inspired. (In this as in many other tropes, but that's pretty common with successful works that inspire imitators.)

The entire plot of Lord of the Rings turns upon the necessity of forgiving someone who is irredeemable. Goblin Slayer certainly isn't going to have a line like:

Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.'

Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.'

The suggestion that orcs are irredeemably chaotic evil is inconsistent with Tolkein's own thoughts and writings (both in published works and unpublished notes). Indeed, though, he was notably troubled by the implications (especially because it conflicted with his Catholic theology, which informed Arda as well) that the story or world concept could give that impression and wrestled with the idea of how best to reconcile it while telling the story.

As noted, plenty of things that came afterward had far less care or concern with this point.

Honestly I didn't see those visualizations as coming from the Priestess, but more so showing the viewer the Goblin Lord's past as he's begging for his life, showing that his words are a lie and he'll do the same thing he did before. He was once an infant that an adventurer decided to spare, then he killed her or at least beat her within an inch of her life. He then captured at least one adventurer and began reproducing to create his current horde and as the horde grew they took more prisoners and so on until the present events.

Great season.

Nice to see that season 2 is confirmed as well.

I hope they give some goblin slayer figurines that isn't those figma or nendroids, I'd want something more classy of this series.

Kendra Kirai wrote:

Thematically, I think moving this mini-arc to the end of the season, and later on than in the manga and presumably the novels, works better.

In the manga it feels like two, three days after Priestess shows up, Slayer is ready to accept people, going on actual adventures rather than extermination missions, etc. By moving it to after he's actually met people and made, if not friends, then good acquaintances, it makes his growth into not being so single-mindedly obsessed much more reasonably paced.

The novels make it very clear that a month passes between the ogre fight and the goblin lord's attack on the farm. That is actually a key plot point, because the long rest takes the edge off Goblin Slayer's mental state but still isn't enough to heal all the injuries he obtained while fighting the ogre, which is why he struggles so much in his duel against the Goblin Lord.

Then another four to six months pass between the attack on the goblin lord incident and the journey to Water Town.

So no, it's not that it works better, it's that the manga simply doesn't care to pace itself properly or deliver basic information to the viewer, and then the anime abandons even the attempt to follow the basic order of events on top.

Kendra Kirai wrote:

And we now know for sure that the adventurers of THIS city at least won't underestimate goblins so much, after fighting them in a horde and seeing just how sneaky, cunning, and even dangerous they can be, and not just to newbies.

That's usually how it goes; people with no real experience with a thing assume it to be less dangerous, or easier to handle than it really is, because they've only had to deal with a taste of it.

Again, it's not that they underestimate goblins or don't realize how dangerous those are. The issue is that goblins are too numerous to make goblin extermination feel like anything more than plugging up a leaking dam with dirt, and the average reward for a goblin quest is far too low to make up for how much preparation an average goblin hunt costs (the only reason why Goblin Slayer and Priestess make ends meet is because there's only two of them and neither of them have to spend money on basic essentials such shelter and food).

In the end fighting goblins is terrifying and costs much more than it pays, and you can't even claim that you were on some super-important mission if you do die. Focusing entirely on hunting them is crazy, which is why everyone treats Goblin Slayer as a lunatic. It has nothing to do with underestimating anything.

Of course both the anime and manga choose to chop out roughly four fifth of the original novels' world-building, so both resort to the Idiot Watson trope in order to make up for it.

I pray for the day when they stop watching a show out of obligation, 2 paragraphs about "chaotic-evil" born from the erroneous idea that it was the priestess who saw those images.

Probably one of the worst reviews I have read on this site, almost makes it sound like he was forced to do this.

S0crates wrote:

I hope they give some goblin slayer figurines that isn't those figma or nendroids, I'd want something more classy of this series.

Agreed. I would gladly pay good money for a high quality Lizard Priest figure.

Yune Amagiri wrote:

Quote:

he Goblin Lord begs Priestess to spare his life, claiming he'll never bother people again, and she finds herself visualizing goblin babies like the ones she thought should be spared back in the first episode.

Actually, this scene wasn't about the Priestess visualizing a lambda goblin but the recollection of the Goblin Lord himself, this is one of the multiple informations that were narratively said in the LN and lacking in the anime ( i've count way too much of them ) . While the technical aspect could have been better, i enjoyed this adaptation in the whole and i'm glad to see it continue in any format.

I Personally immediately got that it was the Lord's own memories, and how he's trying to do it all again.

C+ for the final episode? As far as I could see the reviewer didn't point out any actual problems with the final episode rather just saying he wished the series was doing things different. That results in a lower score?

Anyway, I'm assuming the message at the very end of the episode means season 2 is on the way?

Ashabel wrote:

a month passes between the ogre fight and the goblin lord's attack on the farm. That is actually a key plot point, because the long rest takes the edge off Goblin Slayer's mental state but still isn't enough to heal all the injuries he obtained while fighting the ogre, which is why he struggles so much in his duel against the Goblin Lord.

This is not a key plot point, heck it is not plot point at all. It doesn't affect events in any way. This is what LN says about it:

Quote:

The gulf between them in strength and armament was immense. His wounds from before. The month of recuperating. He had needed that time to heal, and yet… Goblin Slayer was acutely aware that his skills had dulled. It would not be a problem, however. He would not let it be a problem.

That's all. It was "enough to heal all the injuries he obtained" and it wasn't a problem. There is immense gulf in strengh and armament between them regardless. Both times GS met strong enemies before according to anime timeline he was close to death and won using trickery and miraculous artefacts, not by overpowering them.

Quote:

So no, it's not that it works better, it's that the manga simply doesn't care to pace itself properly or deliver basic information to the viewer, and then the anime abandons even the attempt to follow the basic order of events on top.

There is nothing sacred about "basic order of events". The only link between farm defense and previous events is a quote I made above. It is impossible to give this information in anime or manga without it looking forced and ridiculous (unlike LN where it is completely natural). There is no point to do it either because it doesn't affect anything at all.

Farm defense could happen any moment. In the morning GS finds goblin traces, next morning the battle is over. There is no any link to previous or following events at all. Moving it doesn't break anything.

And it is much better season ending than ending of volume 2. Sword Maiden ark is rather weak overall, her actions make very little sense and dialogues between her and GS leave viewer slightly puzzled. Reordering allows to end the season in a good place, preserving order would make it look like quality took a dive in the end.

Fred Lougee wrote:

Once again Christopher does not know what the heck he is on about, proving that he should really stick to reviewing BL titles or something.

Just ignore him. Reviews are subjective by nature. It's not like review makes you like show more or less.

That said, it is indeed strange that ANN people review shows they don't like even a little bit. Goblin Slayer is obviously one of (if not the) most popular shows of this autumn season. Which means there are lots of people who like the show. If they come to ANN to read review and read this crap it doesn't make them change opinion about the show, they change opinion about ANN.

Fred Lougee wrote:

Chaotic Evil is a term taken direct from D&D so you had best learn it's correct meaning.

It's not "from" D&D any more than orcs are "from" D&D, and if you played the game prior to 1988, chances were good that the "correct meaning" of Chaotic Evil was largely determined by your Dungeon Master. Here's why:

The original 1974 version of the game was released with a single-axis system: you were Chaotic, Neutral, or Lawful. According to the infamous "Appendix N" from the 1979 Advanced Dungeons and Dragons handbook, Gary Gygax created the single-axis system because he was a massive fan of both Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné stories and Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. (To find out more about the books listed in Appendix N, I recommend you check out Tor's Advanced Readings in Dungeons and Dragons series, where you will also learn a bunch of other cool stuff, like how Three Hearts and Three Lions was the direct inspiration for D&D's paladins, shape-shifting druids, animal companions, and troll regeneration.)

For the first three years of D&D's history, Chaotic, Neutral, and Law were all you got, but in 1977, Gygax introduced a "second axis", allowing players to be Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil, True Neutral, etc..

Four years later, though, Gygax decided that this second axis was a mistake, and the 1981 printing of the game removed these additional rules!

It wasn't until 1988's second edition that the two-axis system returned, and by then, players had already been using their own house-rules for years. It wasn't unusual for the game to grind to a halt while two players who had different ideas about "how a Lawful Evil character should act" got into friendship-testing arguments.

These days, it's easy to assume that since these terms have Wikipedia and TvTropes entries everybody who learned about them from those sources is going to automatically have the same interpretations about which fictional characters are which alignments... but don't similarly assume that those of us who learned about them by reading old fantasy novels or playing D&D are necessarily going to come to the same conclusions as you.

#844391 wrote:

C+ for the final episode? As far as I could see the reviewer didn't point out any actual problems with the final episode rather just saying he wished the series was doing things different. That results in a lower score?

He gave the first episode a C, so by that logic, I guess he thought it had improved?

#844391 wrote:

Anyway, I'm assuming the message at the very end of the episode means season 2 is on the way?

Either that or some kind of OVA/movie, but a second season is the safe bet.

Mr. Reviewer:
It`s clear you didn`t get it. That black and white scene wasn`t some vision from the priestess of what would happen if she allowed mercy to the goblin lord. Those were the memories of the lord. The manga makes it even more obvious, as it includes how he got the axe.

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:

Four years later, though, Gygax decided that this second axis was a mistake, and the 1981 printing of the game removed these additional rules!

You are confused, as this timeline shows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

for many years there were TWO editions of the game, ad&d had the good-evil axis while the other hadn't, it was never removed from the game as you state. Then with 3rd edition the advanced moniker was removed but the good-evil axis stayed.

But you are right that there can be several interpretations of said axis, I was going to give mine but why bother, at the end of the day goblins in this interpretation are no different from vermin or have been brainwashed, it is kill or be killed, plain and simple.

mangamuscle wrote:

You are confused, as this timeline shows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

for many years there were TWO editions of the game, ad&d had the good-evil axis while the other hadn't, it was never removed from the game as you state.

According to both the Wikipedia page for D&D Alignment (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#History)
and my memory, the edition of non-AD&D referred to on the timeline as the "blue box" (1977, right column) had a good-evil axis, while the "magenta box" (1981, right column) and the "red box" (1983, right column) did not.

Overall, character creation in the 1977 release was more directly in line with the AD&D line's system than the 1981 or 1983 releases, chiefly because it only supported levels 1-3, after which point players were expected to buy AD&D products if they wanted to continue playing. (The 1981 and 1983 releases had their own corresponding level 4+ supplements, which meant that they were free to do their own thing with stuff like alignment during character creation.)

I attribute the degree of differences between the blue, magenta, and red boxes to the fact that they all had different head writers (Gygax was busy working on AD&D during that time).

Regardless, I agree with you that I am inclined to just take "goblins are all evil and must all die" at face value and move on to the next season of anime without any further discussion of what kind of evil they are.

NPC wrote:

-cut for the sake of post size-

The passage of time is enough of a plot point for it to be mentioned, and it affects more than just the fight with the goblin lord - it also heavily affects Goblin Slayer's mindset. It's made pretty explicit that the month he took off slaying goblins is what made him begin his mental journey toward someone who wants to be an adventurer, not someone who just wants to slay goblins all day long.

Also no, there are dozens of way to deliver such basic information as the passage of time in anime even if you don't want to resort to cheap methods such as a simple "one month later" stamp on-screen. Hell, the original Sword Art Online anime managed to convey the passage of time by having characters off-handedly mention it during dialogue. It's really not hard at all.

And while you're right in that the Water Town arc would make for a poor ending to a season, that's because the novels frame it as the first step in Goblin Slayer's life as a proper adventurer and not a glorified pest exterminator. For the first season, there was no reason for the anime to venture into the Water Town arc at all. They could easily make the first volume take twelve episodes if they just stopped trimming down dialogue in ways that rendered parts of it incoherent, as well as cutting out the world-building, the non-action chapters and pretty much all signs of the female cast's internal thought processes.

Goblin Slayer anime wasn't facing any sort of "impossible" difficulties in adapting the original text into anime format; it simply didn't care to do so. It could choose to be a properly nuanced D&D campaign if it wanted to, and instead chose to be a dumb splatterfest. It was very obviously a conscious choice on the part of the staff and while I'm glad that you ended up enjoying it, for some of us expectations were a little higher than a brainless gory timewaster.

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