Forum - View topicNEWS: Report: Domestic/Int'l Animation Market in Japan Grew 5.8% in '10
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Transformers 2 BD for 2k yen (150 minutes running time) Madoka Magica vol. 1 BD for 5k (60 minutes running time) Not quite. Well, you're right that "a couple thousand yen" is the norm for a non-anime video release in Japan. However, anime is obviously much, much higher. Especially if you compare the price relative to running time. |
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Sacto0562
Posts: 288 |
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I think a lot of pickup in sales is coming from anime now coming out on Blu-ray format, which has become very popular in Japan in the past few years. (It should be noted that Japanese market Blu-ray discs can be played on US-market players, since Japanese Blu-ray discs either have no region coding or use Region A coding, the same coding used in North America.)
Who wouldn't want to watch an anime series drawn with HD in mind like Puella Magi Madoka Magica? 
Indeed, don't be surprised a series like Suite Precure will be available in half-season Blu-ray box sets within the next few years. |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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As far as I know DVDs/Blu-rays are more often rented rather than purchased in Japan, though. The cost of renting in Japan is certainly far lower than that of buying, at least. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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We already have one. http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=TCBD-32 4 sets at 12 episodes each for a modest price of 23,000 yen, or about $300 USD You too can own the entire Suite PreCure series on BD for a mere $1200. All you need to do is skip out on the rent for a month. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14773 |
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An 11-yr-old Western animated film out-grossed a Ghibli?! 
(Toy Story 3 came out in 2010.) |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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No, they're not. The primary defense of their position is: "Failing to buy outside of Japan means starvation for those in Japan."
While I get the point this statement's trying to make, it's not believable. This small demographic can not sustain revenues to keep the anime industry alive. It's similar to saying "As long as people buy Adam Sandler movies, the movie industry will never die." This news was not surprising to me, though others around here may find themselves at a loss on how to explain the reasonable position it delivers. I can only assume they'll disregard this report as quickly as they do reasonable information surrounding them. I can't wait for the links to strawman propaganda to discredit the report's position. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Well, for one thing, Adam Sandler movies don't really comprise 60% of the total Blu-Ray sales for the American movie industry, so no, it's not really that similar at all. You are deluded as to how the market is in Japan currently. Believe it or not, but with as high as the prices for anime BD/DVDs are in Japan right now, it does not take some extremely large number to make a series profitable. ~3,000 copies per volume (could be less or more depending on the show's budget) is about what it takes for a TV anime series to make a slight profit. That means if .6% or more of the 500k people who attend Comiket buy the series on BD or DVD, then odds are it made money. I see that as sustainable, and not at all unbelievable. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Since you did not provide a definition of otaku for this discussion, I decided to read it as a group whose interest is very specific because fujoshi is very specific. Thus, read "otaku" as "loli fan" (given how many complain about it). Feel free to correct the definition I'm reading it as if it differs. With this, I do not agree 60% of sales are comprised of this demographic alone simply because the best selling titles don't represent this demographic. In addition, I don't disagree specific series are supported by members of this demographic.
You're deluded to think I'm going to accept your position this industry is supported by a crowd which is too small to be measurable because they're into a specific type of series which doesn't even represent 2% of the season's catalog. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Oh... man. People never seem to surprise me. Now apparently otaku means lolicon?
Jello, there's a pretty decent lexicon (although it probably should be updated a bit more) here on ANN. That's a decent start to understanding the anime-specific vernacular |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I'll take that action. Based on what I saw in Japan in August, I'll bet Madoka Magica beats Idolmaster, and AnoHana probably will too. Especially if you're basing projections on the otaku market. At Comiket, Madoka Magica EASILY outsold Idolmaster for AniPlex, and AnoHana was right behind Madoka. But, if we're arguing that the "otaku" market keeps anime afloat, the obvious question is what shows right now (for example) would be considered NOT "otaku". (ie. which shows need to be successful to show non-otaku are buying anime?) Since even though I'd say Madoka Magica sales will beat Idolmaster, I don't necessarily think Madoka Magica sales are less "otaku" than Idolmaster. Or maybe what sales target needs to be hit? Bakemonogatari vol. 4 sold almost 58k BDs in 2010, good for #18 on the BD list. For reference, the highest selling TV show DVD in 2010 (can't find blu-ray figures quickly) was "Glee v. 1" at around 976k (#77 overall), that's 10% of the sales of the #2 overall DVD (#1 was Avatar, with 1 mil more sales, decided to go with the LOWER number as a closer benchmark in case Avatar was an aberration), Bakemonogatari v. 4 (as stated) was around 58k for #18 in BDs, which was about 12% of the sales of the #1 BD (Eva 2.22, which likely WAS an aberration on the high side, Toy Story 3 (which was the #2 US DVD for comparing to Glee) was #4 BD in Japan selling 152k copies, which means the anime vol. 4 BD sold around 38% of the tent pole movie disc. Or, if you prefer: The #18 anime Blu-Ray (and a 4th volume disc at that) sold 10.9% of what the combined DVD & BDs for Avatar (#6 overall DVD, #3 BD) did in Japan. (58k vs. 527,901) A single volume DVD (higher sales format) of the highest selling American TV series (and a vol. 1 at that) did 9.6% of what the DVDs (only, no BD included) for Avatar did in the US (977k vs. 10,173,099) I only give those to imply, that either most people (beyond hardcore otaku/fans) in Japan don't buy discs (DVDs or BDs) too often, or some shows represent more than just the otaku market even if it doesn't appear that way outside of Japan. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Maybe you're not understanding what "summer season" means. It's the shows that started in summer season. PMMM was winter. AnoHana was spring. It does not mean "sales at Summer Comiket".
Going by this chart for summer anime I would say: Usagi Drop, Dantalian no Shoka, Blade, Nuraryihon no Mago, and Ikoku Meiro no Croisee mainly. Maybe Blood C, Sacred Seven, Kamisama Dolls, and Kami-sama no Memochou as well, but I never watched them. This is assuming that when you say "otaku" (in quotes like that) you mean otaku/fujoshi, as Natsume, Uta no Pri and No. 6 are heavily fujoshi-targeted. Mawaru Penguindrum is a tough call. It has character designs from a prominent BL artist and features a good bit of fanservice. I'm not sure whether it's an otaku or fujoshi show personally. Ikuhara is just a genre all by himself in my opinion. If I had to make a choice though... I'd probably put it outside the otaku/fujoshi umbrella. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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To be honest, I forgot which shows were in summer season. I was only using summer comiket as a metric for what is popular. Having JUST looked at the summer slate, I honestly wouldn't expect ANY of the summer shows (except maybe Uta) to be in the top 10 for anime on the year. I would expect at LEAST 4 shows from the spring to beat out Idolmaster. (Tiger & Bunny, Ao no Exorcist, The World God Only Knows, Toriko; plus: Hana Saku Iroha, Denpa Onna and others might give it a run) That's not even counting the winter or upcoming autumn. Honestly I think this past summer slate was pretty weak, and I say that as someone that was waiting for Ikoku Meiro. (which I don't expect to sell well, but I also don't think it has "mass appeal" whether it was live action or animated)
Again, I thought the summer was pretty weak and I wouldn't expect ANY of those to do big sales numbers. Memochou is probably an otaku show in the same way "Akihabara @ DEEP" kind of was (ie. main characters that otaku can self-identify with). And I haven't heard either Blood-C or Sacred7 catching on (the two that'd seem to have the best shot). I'm slightly curious what drives the selection of those particular titles. I get that Blade is not a typical "otaku/fujoshi" title, but that's a US translation like "X-Men" and all the other adaptations Japan is doing from Marvel comics lately. Usagi Drop is also pretty clearly a different sort, but the rest are certainly debatable. Unless we're just saying: otaku=moe shows and fujoshi=BL. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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It's more along the lines of otaku=moe + harem/fanservice shows and fujoshi=BL + reverse harem.
It's a very blunt way of putting it, but when you look at the charts, it becomes apparent that at least it's a very close approximation. Also, KamiNomi II only did around 2k per vol. It was not successful in video sales (but maybe a lot more people picked up the manga which would then make it a success). Toriko DVDs sold less than 500 I think, which is pretty standard for long-running shounen adaptations which care more about TV ratings. |
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TJR
Posts: 223 |
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Definite fujoshi flavoring (and it's certainly aimed at female viewers), at least for the initial impression. Not only did they hire Lily Hoshino, but for the initial episodes, they consistently placed Kanba and Shouma very close together (and frequently in contact with each other). The way it was shot actually put off some friends of mine, who were afraid that there might be some heavy BL overtones. It was kind of a bait and switch though. While the producers added a BL/incest vibe for the initial impression, they eliminated much of it once the Ringo story took off. Last edited by TJR on Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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According to this (which, I grant is not official) http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=314531&show=0 Toriko vol. 1 sold 1,127 DVDs in the first week of August. Good for 12th place for the week. Vols. 5 & 6 of the 13th season of One Piece did about double that. The BluRay of Madoka Magica vol. 4LE was at about 54k on the year as of Aug. 8. Volume 2LE of AnoHana BluRay was about 25.5k as of Aug. 8. I'd say again that Bakemonogatari was the high point of TV series last year, and a random volume of that capped out at 58k. I'll be shocked if IdolMaster moves more than 20-25k on a single volume. (collectively maybe, but not on a single volume) But looking at sales, you're probably right on Toriko, that's likely not gonna move TV series DVD units, altho a movie might have a chance. (I'm using these titles and projecting because summer titles haven't started selling on DVD yet, AFAIK) EDIT: Addendum, Vol 1 of IdolM@ster (being released 10/27) MAY have a shot to sell lots of units, and I say that ONLY because they're doing a big promotion where they're gonna have a set that packages it with a new PS3 game. I stand by my opinion that it wouldn't sell that many units on its own. |
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