Forum - View topicHey, Answerman: DOOMSDAY EDITION!
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||||
|
OK, as I said before, I am a full supporter of fansubs, but...
That is the stupidest thing I ever read, and a serious issue with today's society. Look, if you have money and buy bread to eat, no one will judge you (because you are doing what you're "supposed" to do). If you have money and you steal bread, everyone will judge you (because you're doing something wrong). If you have no money and you steal bread everyone will judge you, but some will judge you as "in the right" and others will judge you as "in the wrong". Here's the deal, I personally have no issue with people who watch fansubs, but to pretend you are above reproach because of how you (or someone else) CHOOSE to operate is just @$$inine. That's like saying "you can't judge me for not raising my kids just because you put the effort into raising yours". |
||||||
|
||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
|
Okay, I don't even see the point in arguing with someone who can't communicate his dissagreement without resorting to such childish means. Your response is basically an insult followed by a flawed comparison, followed by another insult and finally another flawed comparison. The closest thing to a valid point you have is when you talk about the way most people will act. Unfortunately, that is not an arguement for how people will act.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Cowboy Cadenza
Posts: 243 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY |
|
|||||
Um, if you've been reading CCSYueh's posts, you'd probably know that she doesn't exactly seem super-wealthy - she just takes a step down in lifestyle to be able to afford anime. If that means waiting for a few series to come out as box sets, so be it. I don't think she ever said that waiting for a box set was "doing without," though. On a completely unrelated note, I'm not sure I would personally recommend getting Disgaea. Or Fate/Stay Night. Red Garden is better than both shows combined. Not my choice, of course. |
||||||
|
||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||
So you change the rules again. First, I don't know squat about doing without. When I point out I do because I did as a teen, you find fault with that Maybe the fact I was willing to work up to 6 hours a week to earn movie tickets shows I was willing to work hard for whatever. Obviously not. My clients tell me how hard it is to find work as convicted felons, but then last week one of them said the same thing another one said 2 yrs ago--that she doesn't see what they mean since she's never had a hard time finding work. (My guy 2 yrs ago said anyone who says there's no jobs is lying. Considering I was paid a whopping six cents per pound to pick cherries & still made $60-$120 per week while the other teens I worked with who took breaks every hour on the hour struggled to get to $50. My teen applied for a job just after she turned 16 & was hired within a month. One application. A friend used her as a ref & was hired on within 2 months. & her best friend was hired 2 weeks after she applied. Since my teen started working some 9 months ago, lots of teens have quit saying it't easier to flip burgers than gather shopping carts, but she's hanging in there. But go ahead & find another excuse to excuse your downloading. And go ahead & disount my doing without various shows for a year or 2 until it drops to a price I'm willing to pay How about I'd love to get my hands on every title Takehito Koyasu's been in, but I still don't download them. There, An example of a large number of anime I'd love to get, but they aren't licensed, so I'm doing without Meine Liebe, Angelique, Gintama, etc. How about I'm being abandoned 2 dvds in on Siunkoku & Shonen Onmyoji. Oh, don't forget I've subscribed to Newtype USA from day 1 & have every issue so I usually eyeball stuff there first (Shonen Onmyoji, 12 Kingdoms), so again, I do wait, but obviously my waiting isn't waiting or doing without because your desire is obviously greater than mine. Cowboy--Yeah, if it weren't for the Geneon situation, I'd still be waiting on Faye/Stay. I loved Lunar Legend Tsukehime & several Fate/Stay viewers(yeah, probably downloaders-can't remember) said I should try it also, so it's been on my radar (though low). I loved Ayakashi & was hoping to see the 2nd title from Geneon, but now that looks as though it's out of the question. Hell Girl & Red Garden are boh titles I'm waiting for a box on since both Funi & ADV seem stable enough to be around long enough to issue them. Disgaea was also a title I thought I'd wait for a box or maybe a sale on, but Geneon isn't going to be around for that. Saiunkoku & SHonen Onmyoju were my titles I was buying as they were released, but that's shaky now, so I could wind up splurging & going for Red Garden or Hell Girl although NHK is more the type I duck out on waiting for a box & buy earlier than I planned, but ADV has promised us frogs for soooo long...god, I want my frogs....I can probably hold out for frogs...(meaning I can wait to order frogs as it's released & not break down & get NHK) I did hold out until SHadow Skill's boxed, but I ordered the Jing OVA since I've been waiting....however long it's been since Newtype USA told us about it 3 or 4 yrs ago(seems like forever) Anticipation....I love Jing. Last edited by CCSYueh on Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
|
You've not awnsered my question though. You may have worked hard and all that as a kid, but thats because you had no choice. You literally had to choose between doing what it took to pay and doing without. Talking about that really has no bearing here because its really not "choosing" to either pay or do without when theres no choice at all. Theres no other option in that situation.
In your case, you werent willing to do without those things so you had to do what was neccissary to pay for them. But what if there was a third option that made you able to get the things you wanted for free? Would you still have been out there picking berries at 6 cents a pound? With downloads today, kids don't have to choose between paying and doing without, hence the problem. They now have to choose between paying, doing without, and illegally downloading. I'll say again, I do think people should pay, but I cant really fault them for taking the downloading option when its available. |
||||||
|
||||||
britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||||
I'll keep in mind that 2000 anime dvds and 2000 mangas doesn't equal wealthy. Also when you're around and see the number of posts about figures that cost over $60. And to CCSYueh I find fault with it because: What the hell does telling us about you work for free have to do with squat? It seems like something just tossed up there to make you look good because it has nothing to do with you earning any money. No one cares about your willingness to work. And even the 6 cents and hr- you just said it was to buy clothes. I highly doubt you were buying dvds and tapes with that money but I do say I could be wrong. On my side of the States jobs aren't so plenty. Even in a college town. Unless I decide to sell drugs or something. When I get the chance to snap my fingers and create more jobs i'll do so. I'm sure not just I need one here. As for me excusing my downloading if the shows ever make it overseas then i'll do something about it. Or even if they don't I might go out and buy a $5 plushie. I'm sure the company would be gald for the pennies of profit they just made. I've got lots of dvds and manga- I just don't brag. Or look down on others who can't. As for you waiting two years and calling that doing without when you're sitting here saying you're buying $300+ worth of merch in the mean time- thats not doing without at all. You'd think someone who apparently had nothing and now has everything would be able to understand people who are in the same shoes you were in x number of years ago. Looking at an anime subscription that costs $90 a year and calling that doing without? Don't give me that crap- those two dvds aren't coming out at all- don't act like you wouldn't have snacthed them up if you could had. How glorious it must be to have your concerns lie on: Oh they're not going to put these out anymore boo hoo lets buy something else! There seems to be a difference between the defintion of "going without" you apply to yourself and the defintion of"going without" you apply to others. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||
|
True--my sister didn't mind the nasty snide comments about wearing Thrift Store Clothes so she settled for that. She didn't really like picking fruit, so she didn't do it as heavily as I did. While the clothers was a motivation, I certainly bought lps (we didn't have videotapes in the 1970's). Bought my first guitar for $80 with my own money. Once I found I could make that kind of money, I did buy what I wanted like attending science fiction conventions in LA back in 1979 & 1980. Books, magazines, going to movies that didn't play at the community theater I worked at that only played family (G & VERY FEW PG) films like Young Frankenstein they'd never, ever play. Bought my own little mono tape players (we had so little back then) & paid my share of gas when I started driving. Yeah, mostly because I didn't want to be a burden to my folks & my money was my money--I didn't have to be approved to spend it, ask permission for money for this or that book. Bought a lot of material & sewed my own clothes, in fact.
Would I do without if I didn't have to? My teen does because I've trained her-she's already taken out a loan to buy herself a laptop so she's established credit for herself. The closest comparisons nowadays to then would all really have been theft--sneaking into theaters, etc. so no. My husband commented when he worked at ToysRUs briefly that it was so tempting all that money in the cash register--no. I worked drive-thru at Jack-in-the-Box & took in loads of cash I was never tempted to take. So I think the basic dif is a lot of my generation had different a different morality which is why this "It ain't a crime if you don't get caught" attitude is sio alien to many of the older generation, same as wasting food. So many of my teen's friends think nothing of throwing away half their food because their parents didn't' teach them otherwise. My parents are children of the Depression (1930 & 1932) so I grew up with stories of Aunt So-&-So working at a restaurant & bringing home the fat drippings & the family picking out the meat bits or how all the kids my mom grew up with in Florida were dirt poor so they didn't really see how poor they were. My dad was 30 when I was born & I was 30 when I had my teen so I'm probably from a different place as far as rearing goes from a lot of the downloading teens. I was trained in the "if they give you too much change, return it" mentality so I don't think I would have downloaded even had it been available |
||||||
|
||||||
|
britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||||
|
Yeah my parents are from the Depression time too. They were kids though- but still.
If someone drops some money I turn it in. If I get too much change I give it back. (unless the waiter is rude) I guess it just boils down to age difference and time. I feel if you were a teen today and not just watching yours you might feel differently towards others. But whateva- to each his own. And none of you all answered other question: Did you see yourself as theives before the anime market grew and started american distribution? When tapes were mailed to a fro, fansubbed, did you calls yourself theives? Did you think anything was wrong with what you did? And please be honest. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||
|
I've also been very much I want to pay my favs for being my favs. I want my fav band to do well because if they don't, I don't get any more music so on that level my anti-downloading is purely selfish because I did follow some local bands that never managed to make it big & they had some good songs.
Am I perfect? Hell no. My speedometer creeps up from time to time, but if I were pulled over I hope I can keep enough presence of mind to remember this is once out of god knows how many times I've done it. I was trailed a couple weeks ago by a very persistant cop thinking he was going to give me a ticket. (he took 2 off-ramps & came back on, held back, then speeded up thinking I'd forgotten him...Didn't catch me) My husband did his share of stuff that I couldn't believe in the name of "bored teen/youthful hijinks" including the mandatory shoplifting. I couldn't believe it because I wasn't trained that way. (he commented they wouldn't let him buy C02 any longer because he bought so much to make bombs to do such fun things as make a dummy & have it explode when a friend's mom opened the back door to investigate some stranger in her back yard) One of my teen's friends who DOESN'T get to borrow from me apparently shoplifts all her manga. Another smokes, though she's underage. We had a big case here where dad thought he was smart buying beer for the son & friends to drink at home on grad night, but for some reason the kids left anyway & wrapped around a tree, killing his son & even though he was the one providing the beer, I seem to recall he was very angry the driving teen "got off easy" community svc(go to schools proclaiming the evils of underage drinking). I never met my father-in-law, but he apparently shoplifted regularly (wasn't going to pay that for that) & even told the grandkids the store owed them a free candy from the bulk candy bin because their parents shopped there regularly. I didn't even know it has a name (grazing) until my husband worked for a grocery store in the '80's & yeah, it pisses me off because that box of cookies you feed to your kid to shut him/her up while you're shopping/shoplifting forces stores to raise what I'm paying for stuff. I pissed off a co-worker who was all "you're late again" (yeah, if I'm 10 minutes late, I make it up & you steal just as much balancing your checkbook on company time. She was very angry over that because she didn't see herself as a thief. Also liar because we lied daily on our jobs when we told callers we didn't have inside numbers when we did because we weren't supposed to give them out) It's very hard for people to accept some of those things. Am I a hypocrite? Sure. Aren't we all? Isn't the big parent line "Do as I say, not as I do?" I got pissed at ADV & bought the bootleg to Tactics when they dropped the license. I am buying it (if Manga ever releases the last dvd) Momentary insanity. My little rebellion. (ADV was a swear word in my house at that time & I'm still shakey on them) So do I expect people to stop downloading? It'd be nice but it is really like shoplifting. As long as you believe they can't catch you, you'll do it. As my grandmother used to say about sex outside of marriage, if he can get the milk for free, he's not going to buy the cow. Do I think it's harming the industry? Hell, yes, but I don't see a way to curtail it anytime soon though I wish they could because yeah, I want the titles I want to see to be licensed. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||
Hmm. I think people should pay too, but when you say should pay, do you mean pay for every individual copy? Or do you mean pay as they can? Also, I respect your desire not to judge anyone, that's not at all a bad thing, but I'm not sure you can fault others for wanting to judge people at the very least by the same standards they use to judge themselves. I have a problem with people who say that what I'm doing is wrong, who then turn around and do the same thing I'm doing they say is wrong. This is what makes no sense to me. That is simple hypocrisy, because they are breaking their own standards. To me that mentality simply makes no sense (others here apparently prefer this...). By the same token, I am not too happy with people who download everything and buy nothing (when they have the ability to at least buy something). I don't feel I'm a hypocrite on this because I judge myself by this standard, I am supporting what I value. Unless they hate everything they download (which I actually understand, strangely enough, when I started I was downloading crappy terrible software.. like windows ME, not anime. I can't really explain why I did this, except that I could. I think this is probably one of your major themes, if I recall.) I think the only thing odd about your statement is a slight tinge of internal contradiction. On the one hand you say that you don't "fault" because of availability, but you do go so far as to say "should." To me, even saying "should" is to say that they are in fact doing something that in your opinion is wrong. So it almost takes away the meaning of you saying "can't fault them" to say this. The reason I say "almost" is because perhaps by fault you are saying that you don't expect or demand from others what you demand of yourself. I can completely understand and respect that, since you are admitting that you have done things wrong as well. I don't think this is any less true of others here, so I suppose my problem is not understanding why so many are so adamant that people get jail time, have their lives screwed up, etc. by copyright infractions. The only reason many people are at the point they are is because they didn't get caught. I don't think we should hope for these huge fall guys who get hit hard simply because they happened to get noticed for what almost everyone else is doing. And that'd be another reason why I'm against the system itself. There is no way to enforce the law across the amount of people doing it (IMO) and tough enforcement against "little guys" who happen to get caught is generally far too harsh in an effort to cause intimidation. Since I'm not a fan of police states punishment as intimidation bothers me. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
|
Well, let me try and ellaborate.
I do think people should ideally pay for everything. There are alot of things in life that you should do though. I suppose you could say that by not doing this you are doing something wrong. I wouldn't really put it that way, because I don't like to paint things so black and white. Generally, I would say that just by not doing something you should you are not inherently doing something wrong. This all is rather subjective anyway. The point of all this is much like you said. People should not expect or demand from others that they pay (though they should) even if this is what you may demand of yourself. I suppose it is very natural to judge others by the standard you judge yourself. However I think people may be setting the line of good vs bad on par with themselves which is unfair. If you buy stuff, then you're sort of going above and beyond what is fair to expect from people. For that I have a ton of respect for those who buy. However, just because these people go this far doesn't mean its reasonable to expect others to. Its just alot to ask when you can so easilly get it for free. As for wether this applies to buying everything, or buying some things. I'm primarilly refering to asking people to buy everything. I'm tempted to say that it is reasonable to expect people to buy at least something, although I feel a little hypocritical saying that. One thing I am completely intollerant of is people who somehow feel that they're better than those who buy. Ability to afford it plays a huge role to me too. I definitely think its unreasonable to expect people to pay for more than they can afford. (and when I say afford, I mean buy without having to take extreme measures.) Also, I could not agree more on the issue of punishing downloaders. Since I don't fault downloaders for downloading, I think it really really sucks when they get really screwed over because they happen to be the one in a million to get caught. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16939 |
|
|||||
Now you're just trying to split hairs and make excuses as to how her example is invalid. Plus you saying you think people should pay but you don't fault them for stealing is no different then saying you don't fault the guy for stealing a dvd player because the clerk walked away. The way you say it seems to suggest you feel it's almost entitled to them simply because the option is there.
You should also keep in mind that this is probably over a very long period of time. So I'd hardly call that being well off or wealthy. So maybe before assuming how wealthy or well off she, or someone else, is you might want to consider how long they've been buying anime. While not that many I've acquired probably 70-75% of that amount myself over the span of 12 pushing 13 years. You also aren't even accounting that many might be gifts or gotten on sale. Retail price and paid price could be 2 very different things.
Get off the high horse really. Going without doesn't have to apply to just anime. She's personally listed examples of going without in other areas to afford anime. Let's also look at some actual figures for a second. You say don't give you that crap about a $90 magazine subscription as if that's some huge financial purchase. That's less then $10 bucks a month. You also mention the $300 bucks of merchandise she bought. So do you know what she didn't get to afford that? What other corners in her life she cut to be able to get whatever she bought? As for jobs, there's always a job to be had. I don't buy that bs from anyone. You might just not like what jobs there are but there's always something somewhere. Even hobunk little hick towns like mine always have something. It may not pay much or be glorious but it's a job none the less. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||||
Can't afford a high horse. If I could ever find one on discount... In short:
As for the job debate- wheter you believe me or not there aren't any jobs available here. I've applied at fast food joints willing to flip burgers and they're either over run with people, too dangerous (several mcdonalds in my area are known as Murdermacs), or they aren't hiring. (i suppouse I can say there technically are jobs- but if i'm going to die on the job or have a high chance of getting raped I don't count them in the equation) Your Q:You also mention the $300 bucks of merchandise she bought. So do you know what she didn't get to afford that? My answer: Um? More anime? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
If it appears to be splitting hairs to you then clearly you have missed the point of what I'm saying. I don't think that because its available you're entitled to it. I think that because its available, you can, should you choose, get it for free. When you tell someone to either pay or do without when it is also available free, you are telling them to choose to do this. When you are telling someone to do without or pay when there is no other option, theres really no choice about it. Its a monumentally different situation. Sorry but I don't see how what I'm talking about is like your comparision in the slightest. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16939 |
|
|||||
In other words no you don't know so you just want to make assumptions and say how she's not doing without. You also just proved there are jobs by you but you're unwilling to work at them. You want to label them as too dangerous due to the area or say how you're going to get raped working there because they've got bad raps it seems. As I said earlier there are jobs but for whatever reason you want to list they don't fit you're criteria so that equates into no jobs being there. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group