Forum - View topicNEWS: When Piracy Becomes Promotion
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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besides most of the raws the bootleggers are getting are not coming from hardsubbed fansubs. there getting em from the same source the fansubbers are someone in japan ripping it off there DVR and putting it out on the net via winny or someother jp p2p prog.
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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As cyrax put it... the bootleggers are DL the raws, not the fansub versions. This is why his argument is flawed. |
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Fenrir
 Posts: 369 |
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The problem is the anime industry itself. The industry has been created in such a way that bootleggers are easily able the massively undercut the prices of there legitimate counterparts and turn hefty profits by selling sheer volume.
Are fansubbers hurting the anime industry. They are a bane and a boost to the industry. Why is that well numerouns anime fans that get fansubs simply don't have the money to go purchase the titles. Frankly without anime fansubs my collection would be incredibly small and I would not be that hardcore of an anime fan. These companies are going out there and saying look at how all these fansubs are killing out profit because x amount of people are getting them for free. The real hole in this argument is that the x amount of people that get them for free will never the x amount of people that buy them in stores due to the price. Most anime fans will support the industry by buying the dvds. I just spent 200 dollars on anime in one of my must buy anime because the prices are good mode. Fansubs also do make instant fans. I would never have touched full metal alchemist or even be considering buying Funimations 16 disc realease of my favorie series. Which is just ludicrous Bandai goes and does Gundam Seed in 10 when they are the same episode length. So there is another problem right there. Also all you have to do is look at the manga market. Ever since the whole 10-15 dollar manga boon has started everyone wants to buy manga now. Why the price is right. Manga cost 6 dollars U.S in it's uncut Japanese form. So your paying $4 dollars for license, translation and shipping. That's totally fair and fans are will to pay that price. Hell shonen jump graphic novels are only 8 dollars. You'll notice how many manga translators will stop doing there fan translations these days and get people to support the official release a lot more because of hwo the companies are now treating the consumers. Also fansubs are impossible to kill. Why there will always be tons of anime series that will not get timely licensing or timely release in the U.S. Look at amazing series like Legend of Galactic Heroes, Gear Fighter Dendoh, The original Cutey Honey and Getter Robo series. Fansubs will always be with us. Fansubs are what built this industry. Streamline started localizing anime because they saw a market forming for the stuff thanks to fansubs. if streamline had never started anime would never have gotten that big. It would have remained as something we saw on tv every so often, Like voltron, starblazers, Robotech etc. The best way to combat fansubbers is to become more competitive in your pricing. Hell yesterday in best buy I saw Evangelion platinum vol 1 with box for 25.99 thats a great price. New Cutey honey and Saber Marionette R for 12.99 which I bought instantly. Gundam Seed vol 1 with 5 eps for 20 dollars. Initial d for 15.99. Now these are great prices unfortunately you can only get prices like this at best buy or offline. If anime dvds were always this cheap at all stores people would buy a lot more of them and fansubs and bottleggers would become less of a problem. |
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Pandemonium
 Posts: 102 Location: Canada, NS |
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I agree with that, anywhere else you shop, anime dvds will be at least double the price of regular dvd movies. Not to mention that a collectors box will raise the price significantly even if it only contains one dvd. And without it (depending where you live and where you shop) the dvd is still $40-$50 in some cases.
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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I could easily rip and bootleg other R1 DVDs from MPAA affiliated studios. Hell, most people could with the software out there. The only reason they are able to 'massively uncut the prices' is because: 1) Lots of new anime fans don't know they are buying bootlegs 2) They don't have the resources of RIAA or MPAA to go after bootleggers/copyright infringers.
All industries do that. Software, RIAA, MPAA, etc. They all say: 1) x people downloaded this 2) this costs $y in stores 3) we have lost "x times y" dollars due to piracy It's because there is no way to distinguish they people that would have bought the item from the people that couldn't afford it or wouldn't buy it if it wasn't free. They have to calculate SOME number and it would cost money to do some sort of statistical research to develop a formula to account for that.
Gundam Seed DVDs are $29.95 per volume, and Full Metal Alchemist DVDs will be $24.95 per volume. I'm sure they see that as a way to account for that. Though it'll be $299.50 for all of GSeed and $399.20 for all of FMA. But that's the price you pay for not waiting for: 1) Prices to come down on the single DVDs. or 2) A Boxed Set When you buy a DVD as soon as it comes out, you're just like the early adopters for computer hardware. When the latest and greatest video card comes out there's a huge pricetag on it, but if you wait until the next generation or two comes out then the price greatly decreases. Even at discounted internet prices, the boxed sets usually end up cheaper than all of the singles DVDs. Though they just don't come out right away. The companies would rather milk the fans that can't wait first, and then through out the boxed set to get the fans that wouldn't pay the premium to get the DVDs right away.
But then other groups just pick up where they left off. It's the same as with fansubs. Some groups stop when something is licensed and others don't and yet other come out of the woodwork only when there is no group doing something licensed.
Let's take Flame of Recca for example. I don't see many groups hopping on board to fansub that one. It's also not licensed. Many groups won't take over a series if it isn't popular enough. If the series IS popular enough most anime companies won't sit on it. It's true that the anime industry on America started in the grey area of the law with fansubs, but there has to be a point where you cut your ties to your not-so-lawful past if you want to be legit.
Yea. You can only get prices like that at Best Buy or offline, but if you want BETTER prices than that you'll go online. Case in point: Initial D for $15.99 in your example. DeepDiscountDVD.com has Volumes 1-6 of Initial D for $12.00 each with free shipping. It's only a couple dollars but if you're a big anime fan and get lots of anime that can add up after a while. That's $3.99 saved. You can get Crest of the Stars Complete for $30. Just save that $3.99 on 7 or 8 purchases and you have enough for another DVD. |
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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Complaining about the prices of the collector's box is a moot point. It's a 'collector' box. It's extra. You don't need it. Complaining that they charge extra for it is stupid. If you want (or feel that you need) it then you pay the extra money for it. If you can't afford it, then make your own piece of cardboard to hold the DVDs. The DVDs are still coming in cases. It's not like you're getting the discs by themselves with nothing else. Sorry, I just hate it when people complain about the price of extras. It's *extra* for a reason. THAT is why it costs more.
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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So explain how anyone can compete with a licensing fee of "free", and virtually zero production cost. They can't.
More like "lots of new anime fans don't know they're buying bootlegs"
You think the MPAA has a lot of resources? *snort* *snigger* I don't know about the RIAA, but I know EXACTLY what the MPAA has to work with and it's hardly anything. They have maybe a dozen employees between the east and west coast offices working on anti-piracy with very little budget. They have reps around the world, but it's really really small time.
That's not true at all. Almost all new DVDs have SRP of $29.95, and if you shop online you can find similar discounts to Hollywood movies. The only difference is that Hollywood has a ton of titles that have long since entered the black and that they own 100% that they can afford to put out at $14.95 and still make money. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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The only problem with this argument is that you would have to presume that there will, in fact, be a box set of that anime series you are wating for. Most of the time (not all) if a series comes out with a limited edition collector's box with the first volume, there will not be a box set later. I'm sure they haven't finalized everything yet for an FMA release, but I'm also not holding my breath about Funimation getting any box sets out for it either. If their current strategies in marketing box sets work out well enough, then I'll be a little more optomistic. But then other groups just pick up where they left off. It's the same as with fansubs. Some groups stop when something is licensed and others don't and yet other come out of the woodwork only when there is no group doing something licensed.
Just for clarification, Flame of Recca has been licensed for some time now... both the manga and anime are coming out from Viz.
While I'd like to agree that competitive pricing can help to combat the fansubbers, the problem remains that there are those who will always either want, or expect, something for free. It's those people that you probably won't turn, no matter what marketing tatics you make. As far as getting the best prices? Best bet is to go online... DDD is a perfect example... unless you live in the state where they are shipping from, you can get it tax free, and at a good 30-40% discount off of MSRP. And if you have the patience for it, you can also get free shipping. Can't really beat that. Last edited by Godaistudios on Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:06 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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I was referring towards the members more than the organization. The studios themselves have larger pocketbooks than ADV and friends. Not that this completely stops pirated DVDs, it just makes the market more secretive and not as wide spread. It's a little harder to convince yourself that a DVD is legit when you're buying it in a dark alley (so to speak) than if you're buying it from an online store or off ebay or in the open at an anime convention. |
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pyr3sayz
Posts: 20 |
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I agree. There will always be those that don't want to work for something. But that's been a problem since the beginning of time. |
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Pandemonium
Posts: 102 Location: Canada, NS |
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Well since I wasn't complaining, your post is totally irrelavant, I was merely stating a fact that anime costs alot of money, nothing more. But if YOU feel like complaining some more, feel free to manipulate my words to satisfy your insignicant point. |
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ex_mutants
Posts: 54 |
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Yes, some people do watch fansubs and then buy the DVDs because they like the show, but I’ve met and talked to plenty of people that just download copious amounts of free fansubs from the internet with no intention of ever buying the DVDs. If you took away the fansubs would that guarantee that these people would buy the DVDs, No it wouldn’t, but at least it would make some of them buy the DVDs. A lot of them have a very simple viewpoint that since it’s there, why not take it.
I am curious about the Fansub argument that it develops an audience for a show. You don’t need to show the whole series to give people a taste. You could just fansub 5 or even 10 episodes and then say “If you like the show, e-mail the anime companies and let them know”. Why not do that. |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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ADV has the greatest weapon to fight fansubbers is they'd use it right:
A network What are the most popular anime series? Those that are airing on TV. Why are they popular? Because people can see them for 'free' (cost of cable not withstanding). We all know that ADV and other companies get licenses to some shows before they are finished airing, hell, even before they make it to Japanese TV. So, if they want to defeat the fansubbers, they need to start airing this stuff as soon as they can. Not selling it, mind you. I realize that the Japanese companies fear reverse imports. But putting it on-air in America would be a little different. Why not create a "Straight for Japan" late-night timeblock on The Anime Network and show quick-&-dirty subbed anime that may only be a few weeks old in Japan? - It will satisfy the hardcores who want the newest stuff. - It will allow fans to preview series before they are released without having to pay for it. - It will make fansubbers think twice about about putting effort into a series that they themselves can watch subbed in a couple weeks. Now, no network is going to be able to keep up with ALL of the anime that comes out in Japan, especially one owned by only one of the distribution companies. But if they(the American studios) work together on this, they can eliminate most fansubbing and get word of their product out at the same time... Then all they have to worry about it people ripping their TIVO recordings and placing them online.... 
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I'm trying to resist the urge to post about this, I wonder how long that will last.
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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[quote="Pandemonium"anywhere else you shop, anime dvds will be at least double the price of regular dvd movies.[/quote] For about the umptteeth time. a hollywood movie is going to sell A BUNCH MORE COPYS then a anime hence why they can charge less they can make it up in volume.
ANIME IS STILL A VERY NICHE MARKET! edit for some typo's |
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