Forum - View topicMs. Answerman: The Great Online Petition
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Leprosy doesn't progress that fast - the passage from initial onset to terminal case can be excruciatingly long. And you're right, it's an unlovely disease. In any case, the situation described, with Kenshin dying of the disease while still relatively physically intact (although some sort of ecchymosis or pigmentation of the skin apparently took place - I still haven't seen a picture), doesn't fit any of these diseases. It's bears more resemblance to a hemorrhagic virus, with bleeding under the skin and deterioration of the lung tissue. However, such diseases have a very brief duration. Plague (the actual mediaeval disease, not the current enterobacterial pathogen of that name) lasted about 3-5 weeks from infection to terminal case, with symptoms only appearing in the final week. I gather that Kenshin's case had a rather longer duration than that. Besides, the absence of bloody spittle seems to disqualify the hemorrhagic vira.
I believe I did mention that psoriasis was congenital, not acquired. TB is unlikely, since discolouration of the skin is not a trait of the disease. Typhus, like hemorrhagic vira, is an unlikely diagnosis, since the disease runs its course too fast. - abunai |
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emory
Posts: 615 |
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The person who created that ban anime petition is truly a king among men.
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Glory Questor
 Posts: 456 |
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I tried looking for a screenshot for you, abunai, but no such luck.
Basically, spoiler[very dark blood-red or black patches cover all over his body, but centralized in the chest region and spreading from there. By the end of the film, it covers almost all of his body except for the head and the furthest extremities. Most likely it's a form of cancer that just starts at the center and spreads outward, discoloring skin while also most likely affecting his organs. However, it seems that the discoloration is the first sign, but the cancer probably doesn't really affect him until he is rescued later in the movie and his reflexes are found to be dulled completely.] |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Hmmm... how long does the progression of the disease take? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? How large are these patches? Are they the size of a small coin (petechiae) or large blotches (ecchymoses)? I gather they cover the entire body and do not remain localised throughout? But the initial spots appear on his abdomen/chest? Are there symptoms of abdominal pain, constipation, and/or extreme fatigue? Headache? Joint pain? Yes, I'm thinking of the disease that made Mary Mallon a household name... - abunai |
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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"Dulled reflexes"... doesn't that sound like nerve damage, or the "extreme fatigue" you mentioned? Though I haven't seen the OVA, so I wouldn't know if it could also be joint pain as well... sounds like fatigue or nerve damage, though. Hmm... torso's where most if not all of the nerves HAVE to pass through, right? Something that causes nerve damage in the torso could probably mess up your bodily coordination pretty bad, I'm guessing.
If the patches are under the skin, then it can't be leprosy, though. Leprosy creates sores, if I recall correctly, not... bruises or whatever. Crusty sores. -Andromeda |
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Glory Questor
Posts: 456 |
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spoiler[He had shown signs of the disease before he left Japan to take command of Japanese forces in Hong Kong. So, it would depend how long it takes to get to Hong Kong, then rescued after being dumped into the sea on the shore of Hong Kong, then returning to Japan... um, I'd say at least 7 or 8 months at the very least, but 2-3 years at the most (since I can't place if he is going to Japan at the beginning, or going to Hong Kong).]
Large blotches.
Yes.
Fatigue and dullness of the senses and body seem to be the long-term signs. spoiler[He seems fine at the beginning, but his symptoms appear after he is rescued and brought to shore. It's probably another 4-8 months before he returns to Japan--and dies.] |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Not so - in fact, leprosy usually initially presents as bruises that don't go away normally. The crusty sores that you speak of are characteristic of later stages of the disease. Glory Questor gave some good info, which boils down to: Symptomatic stage duration: 4-8 months plus Symptoms: - Large ecchymoses all over the body, initially manifesting on the chest/abdomen - Fatigue - Sensory inhibition I would say that my first guess, typhoid fever, is ruled out by the long symptomatic period. The incubation period for typhoid fever is about 15 days, with a symptomatic period of 21 days. If the victim progresses to the asymptomatic carrier stage, then the disease can be present indefinitely - but no symptoms would present. A second guess, hemorrhagic virus (e.g. non-modern plague) might suit the symptoms better. The eccymoses would be typical - but the lack of bloody expectoration is atypical. Leprosy is ruled out by the fact that Kenshin's symptoms apparently never progress beyond what would be the initial stage of leprosy (bruised appearance, fatigue, sensory dullness) before becoming terminal. Psoriasis is not contagious, and in any case, doesn't match the symptoms. Net result... I don't know. On the other hand, there is a certain futility inherent in trying to diagnose a fictional character suffering from a fictional disease. Fictional diseases are seldom based on the writers' having done any genuine research on the subject. If I had a penny for every time I've seen a female anime character brought to the infirmary only to be diagnosed as "suffering from mild anemia, it's nothing serious", I'd be a rich man. As an aside, has anyone noticed that Japanese consider common colds and influenza to be much more serious than, say, a Western audience would? There is a reason for this - Japan (and Asia in general) is a much more contagion-rich environment than Europe or North America, insofar as pulmonic pathogens are concerned. - abunai |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Why didn't anyone ask Tony K. for screenshots?
 Anyway, I've got several for you, abunai.
Picture 1. Kenshin with the disease, after spoiler[traveling around Japan]. Picture 2. Close-up of the chest area. Picture 3. Kaoru's forearm, after spoiler[seeing Kenshin off to Hong Kong]. Picture 4. Kaoru's disease worsened. spoiler[Near the end, being inspected by Megumi]. Pictures were enhanced and brightened; the originals were very dark. After rewatch this, a special disease which shouldn't exist in Kenshin's universe came into my mind: Kaposi's sarcoma. It's chronic, sexually transmittable (indirectly, via HIV), and fatal (well, more due to AIDS than the sarcoma itself). However, it starts with small patches, yet Kenshin's has large blotches. 
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Thanks for the pictures, dormcat. They're certainly interesting.
My initial thinking was that this might have been typhoid fever, but the ecchymotic discolourations that Kenshin presents are atypical - and besides, the long symptomatic period of the disease makes typhoid fever unlikely. I can say with certainty that Kaposi's sarcoma is out of the question. As you mention, it is a disease associated with AIDS, and that is precisely because it is a very rare disease - normally affecting only certain genetically-susceptible population groups and patients with severely depressed immune systems. Although it is transmissible, any normal immune system can handle it with little difficulty, so it only shows up in cases where the immune responses of the subject are depressed. Besides, the markings on Kenshin are decidedly atypical - Kaposi's looks more like a number of small and large keloid-like scars. In essence, someone with Kaposi's looks like he's been tortured with burning cigarettes, then left to heal (and scar). Furthermore, Kaposi's is not normally fatal. See this picture. So that leaves us with an unknown disease of long duration and probably high lethality, which causes subcutaneous hemorrhaging of some kind, in the chest, abdomen and arms. It doesn't really fit with anything I know, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be some obscure disease that manifests itself in this way. Still, I think they made up the disease. If we (ANN, that is) ever get the chance to interview any of the writers of that story, I'd love to get their version. - abunai |
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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Here's an idea: it could be more than one contagious disease. After all, nothing says that they couldn't contract more than one...
My stab at it, from the info given here? Leprosy (beginning stages), accompanied by something like Influenza or a lung infection of some kind (some lung infections can be quite contagious, right? Not all, actually - I've had a history of bronchiatis, for instance, which I've never transmitted to others before, it just messed me up for a couple of weeks -but still. Kenshin's coughing, yes? So hence, if his disease is contagious and infecting his lungs, it's potentially airborne, an he's contaminating those around him). Or, it's psychosomatic, or partially stress-induced. Stress can cause illness... and hey, if a woman's body can (in rare cases) convince itself that it's pregnant without any baby there and without taking birth control or hormones of any kind? I wouldn't be surprised if it screwed up his immune system majorly. Or, as one poster suggested, it could have been the result of the Hitenmitsurugi martial arts style, which is very physically demanding (quite literally impossibly demanding He can slice a huge tree in half with a reversed blade!). Over time, it could very well have resulted in nerve damage (as for Kaoru, again... psychosomatic?)...
Oh, and on my earlier leprosy comment: I guess this goes to show that one should not take medical information from an episode of the Simpsons (no joke; I just realized that that's where I first heard about the crusty sores). Then again, as you said, for anyone to die of it alone, it'd have to be in the late stages, which would probably mean sores, right?
-Andromeda |
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xiaopingguo
Posts: 11 |
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Bush wants to ban anime petition, eh? Interesting...
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