Forum

Mod Edit- removed some references/quotes of a now deleted troll post

The particular one that's got you in such a tizzy wasn't pointed out in the blurb, which merely mentioned there were some things that might make some viewers uncomfortable. I don't think Rebecca chooses those anyway.

Rebecca wrote:

although no one really treats her as unattractive

I don't know, "look in a damn mirror, you toad" and calling her a monster seem like treating her as unattractive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gina Szanboti wrote:

I don't think Rebecca chooses those anyway.

I don't.

Quote:

I don't know, "look in a damn mirror, you toad" and calling her a monster seem like treating her as unattractive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fair enough! I got lost in the fact that "phryne" means "toad" there, and honestly I took it more as girl-on-girl sniping (also not a good thing, I realize) than a literal comment.

Last edited by Hobbie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mod edit: removed inflammatory quote that also referenced a deleted post

He didn't mince his words, but I think Carnack is right.
When rewieving art, you should talk about art, not politics (especially with a work like DanMachi, which is a pure entertainement production).
Otherwise, for every 'bad' thing I can easely found a good one.
'Hey, look at Phryne ! She's the ultimate proof, that you don't need to be overly feminine to have self-confidence !' or 'Oh wow ! There's a great number of dark-skined characters, isn't it quite progressive/inclusive/watheverive ?'
It sound stupid ? Damn right it is ! Anime hyper

I really liked the 7th tome of the series because it was disturbing. It's meant to be !
It shows that in the DanMachi universe, outside of the dungeon, everything is not fun and game. There's also a dark side to this city and the book explain in a very plausible an non-manichean way how this district work. It's not just an excuse for fan-service.
I think this arc is really interesting, it bring a bit of maturity in the series.

Of course if we're talking about a young audience, caution is obviously advised !

Mod edit - removed insult

But in seriousness to take such a thoughtless stance on the power of words is unfortunate, since people have literally died just for expressing the wrong sentiments at the wrong time. Words evoke responses of all kinds from everyone, and to make a blanket statement like this comes across very uninformed.

This was the part of the story from novels 6 and 7 that I was most interested in seeing how it would be adapted and what the reception to it would be, as it's a dramatic shake-up from what's come before in the franchise. The Amazons that the series has introduced so far, Tiona and Tione, are actually not very typical for their race in terms of behavior; Tiona in particular is a radical personality departure. (As a side note for those who aren't following the novels, Tione's obsession with Finn is played for laughs but actually is more in line with Amazon racial mindset, as a second season of Sword Oratoria should reveal if it ever gets more animation.) This episode, and the arc which it leads off, displays a whole different take on them, especially in the sense of how their sexual aggressiveness aligns with their reproductive practices. That and the whole nature of the Pleasure Quarter are also a major shake-up for Bell, especially Haruhime's words about how she doesn't feel worthy of even dreaming about being a rescued princess. For a boy indoctrinated in heroic stories, her words and attitude are so irreconcilable that he can't handle it at first. That part I thought was handle very, very well.

As for the Amazon prostitutes, let's keep in mind that they aren't just prostitutes; speaking strictly in an anime sense, Bell's observation that he couldn't free himself from Aisha's grasp suggests that she's a higher level than him, which means that they're also adventurers, and not necessary just lower-tier ones. That only furthers an impression that I felt original writer Fujino Omori was aiming for in the novel: they are empowered prostitutes in both literal and figurative senses, ones who are both physically strong and in control of both their situation and sexuality, with Phryne being the ultimate, monstrous extreme. The non-Amazon Haruhime, OTOH, represents the more typical expectation of a prostitute's situation. You also see the former in Ishtar, who thinks nothing of using actual sex (instead of just sex appeal) to get what she wants. As to what kind of message their portrayal sends, I'm inclined to think that the intent was to make them look monstrous to Bell because he's totally out of his depth here, but I can easily see how other interpretations could be drawn from that.

Frankly, I love that the franchise opted to explore this angle. With its two main stars being innocents, sexuality in the franchise has largely been passed off as a joke if present at all, and that's all-too-common an attitude in most fantasy titles which get anime adaptations. (One of the rare exceptions? The otherwise-very-tame The Story of Saiunkoku.)

Anyway, I liked this arc more than the Apollo one, so I am looking forward to seeing what reactions by anime-only viewers will be to some scenes which I'm estimating will come up in episode 8 based on current pacing.

I definitely see where the reviewer is coming from in saying this episode may make some people uncomfortable. I've read all the LNs, and while I really enjoyed volume 7, which this episode starts into, the story took a surprisingly dark/uncomfortable turn in this volume when compared to the first 6 volumes. At the same time, this darker turn really helped flesh out the setting in new and interesting ways and provides some character development that helps set the stage for things to come.

I hadn't thought much of the name Aisha, but I think the reviewer makes a good point about it. Given how much research the author seems to have done on various mythologies and religions, I can see why that name choice may seem tactless. Sure the author does tend to adjust their depiction of the gods, heroes, etc. that the work references in order to fit the setting, but if anything I'd argue that makes the name choice seem even more tactless.

I'm also looking forward to how people will react to later developments in the story arc, probably 2-3 episodes from now.

Key wrote:

snip.

I get the idea that sexuality should be open to be used but I find the execution to be a bit muddied with the whole "empowered prostitute" thing being a bit of a mixed signal and the idea that the intent of the sexuality was to make them monstrous seems muddy as well

Regardless, my main issue with this is less the ideas presented and more the execution.

Hobbie wrote:

He didn't mince his words, but I think Carnack is right.

"Didn't mince words" is one way of saying "went on a trolling mini-rant with the usual BS complaints about social justice run amok, hence why his post is now gone."

But some other folks may also notice some different posts have been edited or deleted as well. Let's ALL calm down now and knock off with the insults, the mocking of people for being "triggered", the suggestions they need to seek professional help, etc. When someone goes on a trolling rant, the proper response is to report the post, not call them mentally ill.

not that I personally got offended by this episode's cheap sexual assault antics (aside from the facts of the series relying on cheap uninspired tropes to begin with), but the fact is that the Amazons did try to rape bell, no cartoonish escape sequence is going to change that. that been said I can't see how anyone who likes the series so far could see a problem with that, first season aside, just in the previous arc we got several instances of kidnap, aggravated assault and attempted murder, if anyone think those are any less heinous than sexual assault, either they have lived a very shelter life or has something really wrong with their values .

regarding the people triggered by Rebecca's review. why? did you really read it? she didn't condemn the episode. I am guessing this might somewhat seem like it

Quote:

That may make this episode one of the more uncomfortable for some people as well. Bell running to escape unwanted sexual advances is framed to be at least a little funny, but just because the genders are flipped, that doesn't mean that it's not just as bad as if he were Belle fleeing a group of men. The Amazons don't even pretend to care that he's frightened and not interested and in fact tell him that they're used to capturing men to propagate their people, which is how they plan to use Bell. It's not a bad thing to show women in charge of their own sex lives, but a lot of what's going on here is far from good. Phryne is another facet of that, with her design feeling like an unpleasant stereotype of a larger woman, although no one really treats her as unattractive, so I may be reading too much into that.

and yes, she clearly went out of her way to disavow the contentious content in order to cover her own back from people fishing for a flame war. but if you take a breath and read it calmly you would realize that she isn't criticizing the series

that been said, I do find it disheartening that this is the state of affairs for PC culture in which writers have to go out of their way to spell out for their readers that rape is bad just to protect themselves, but oh well.

if my opinion can reach and is worth something to the editor, I wish you would let the writers know how condescending it looks when they walk us through a whole paragraph worth of explanations as to why rape, body shaming etc is wrong. come on, don't just asume by default that your readers need a morality lesson and that you are the one most qualified to give it to them, it really feels patronizing, james does this a lot too. I know you don't mean anything bad but might as well let you know how I perceive it

My comment was deleted because people were offended. funny.
People can not seem to handle criticism these days.

Was I critical; yes.
Was I offensive; no.

But I guess speaking my mind is considered trolling these days. So much for freedom of speech, huh?

Simply put, my biggest issue with reviews on this site, is how biased they are. Reviewers seem to think that it is a requirement to inject their own personal standards and beliefs into everything they write. Either due to poor writing or blatant agenda pushing, there is always that constant feed of subjective rhetoric that has no place in an objective review.

Again, reviews are supposed to be impartial and objective, like the following:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being a member of the LN community, I do not know the story going forward, so I can not comment. The story at this point is beginning to take a turn towards the darker aspects of mythology. Not everything is laughter and heroics anymore.

The episode did an excellent job portraying the mythology of the Amazons quite accurately and appropriately. Showing them as aggressive, powerful, confident warriors who do not answer to anyone else, be it socially, or morally.

The animation for the episode, while not being the most stunning thing to ever grace my retinas, was still quite pleasing and accentuated the scenes nicely. The lighting and colors instilled the necessary mood and increased the tension during critical moments.

The jokes and tropes used in this episode were amusing, if not over the top hilarious. Continuing with some of the series lightheartedness, all the while, the darker atmosphere slowly encroaches.

The story intrigued me without letting too much be revealed, leaving me wanting to know more in the next episode. New characters have been introduced, with deep stories and dark pasts.

I believe this new direction the story is taking will be sure to raise the show out of its current 'rom-com action' feel and drive more towards an actual 'action adventure.' We will see how the story progresses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this is only a short review I did on the fly to prove my point. I simply do not have the time right now to write up a full length review, going into every minute aspect of the episode. Also, I do no get paid to do it.

Only the final sentences have the slightest bit of personal input. Everything else is objective to the material that has been presented.

Quote:

The episode did an excellent job portraying the mythology of the Amazons

Subjective statement. That's your opinion, not something that can be measured.

Quote:

The animation for the episode, while not being the most stunning thing to ever grace my retinas, was still quite pleasing and accentuated the scenes nicely

Subjective statement (you even included a bit about how it's based on it not being the most stunning thing to grace your retinas!

Quote:

The jokes and tropes used in this episode were amusing, if not over the top hilarious

Subjective statement. I, for one, thought they were awful.

Quote:

The story intrigued me without letting too much be revealed, leaving me wanting to know more in the next episode

Do I need to

Carnack wrote:

My comment was deleted because people were offended. funny.
People can not seem to handle criticism these days.

Was I critical; yes.
Was I offensive; no.

But I guess speaking my mind is considered trolling these days. So much for freedom of speech, huh?

Simply put, my biggest issue with reviews on this site, is how biased they are. Reviewers seem to think that it is a requirement to inject their own personal standards and beliefs into everything they write. Either due to poor writing or blatant agenda pushing, there is always that constant feed of subjective rhetoric that has no place in an objective review.

Again, reviews are supposed to be impartial and objective, like the following:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being a member of the LN community, I do not know the story going forward, so I can not comment. The story at this point is beginning to take a turn towards the darker aspects of mythology. Not everything is laughter and heroics anymore.

The episode did an excellent job portraying the mythology of the Amazons quite accurately and appropriately. Showing them as aggressive, powerful, confident warriors who do not answer to anyone else, be it socially, or morally.

The animation for the episode, while not being the most stunning thing to ever grace my retinas, was still quite pleasing and accentuated the scenes nicely. The lighting and colors instilled the necessary mood and increased the tension during critical moments.

The jokes and tropes used in this episode were amusing, if not over the top hilarious. Continuing with some of the series lightheartedness, all the while, the darker atmosphere slowly encroaches.

The story intrigued me without letting too much be revealed, leaving me wanting to know more in the next episode. New characters have been introduced, with deep stories and dark pasts.

I believe this new direction the story is taking will be sure to raise the show out of its current 'rom-com action' feel and drive more towards an actual 'action adventure.' We will see how the story progresses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this is only a short review I did on the fly to prove my point. I simply do not have the time right now to write up a full length review, going into every minute aspect of the episode. Also, I do no get paid to do it.

Only the final sentences have the slightest bit of personal input. Everything else is objective to the material that has been presented.

Enough Carnack

I personally disagree with you as your so called "objective review" still has personal subjective stuff: the fact that the story interested you is inherently subjective as is the opinion that the Amazon mythology was implemented well.

Objective Reviews don't truly exist as, no matter how many filters you have, there is still your neurology at play and not someone else's or the the community's full opinion.

As for your past post, I will be blunt, it sounded like you just wanted reviews to go the way you want and ignore stuff that you dislike. hell, the fact that you stated that the world of Danmachi is a different world is already a fallacy as the world of Danmachi is still made by human hand, with human ideologies and cultures still in the back of the mind of the author. As such, it still is applicable to apply cultural critique to Danmachi.

In addition, the fact of the matter is that a bunch of confluent circumstances that are in the text can be combined in such a way to form a subtext that is not great. You might not see it but others do. the actual way to deal with it is discussion and debate, not to simply call it a buzzword and shove it aside

Addendum: Yes, I admit i might have crossed a line. the whole "objective review" thing just ticks me off

Carnack wrote:

Either due to poor writing or blatant agenda pushing, there is always that constant feed of subjective rhetoric that has no place in an objective review.

Again, reviews are supposed to be impartial and objective, like the following:

We see this kind of claim a lot, and it's almost always as a disagreement with a position a reviewer takes. Your claim is simply not a true statement, and as others have pointed out, your own example shows how difficult it is to be purely objective about artistic and literary efforts that are, by nature, subjective. (Short version? Very little of what you said in your sample view qualifies as purely objective.)You'd be better off just saying that you disagree with Rebecca's take on the content and interpret it all a different way, and then explain why. That's perfectly fine; I don't expect people to always agree with my viewpoints when I write my reviews, and discussion threads would be boring to read if everyone agreed anyway.

Also, to be clear, I'm pretty sure your previous post got deleted because of you tossing out a certain pejorative reference that got auto-replaced and the comments about triggering. That kind of language commonly provokes vitriolic arguments, and that won't fly here.

People have already raked Carnack's "objective" review over the coals plenty, but just for fun, I decided to go in and red out any subjective statements in it to see what was left (in bold). I even threw him a bone on statements that were even remotely on the fence between "objective" and subjective, so if I was being more draconian, I could have just crossed out the whole thing save for like a couple words that boil down to "this episode existed". But here's what's left if you take out anything that's indisputably subjective. Yes, it no longer makes sense grammatically, but it barely made sense grammatically to begin with, so that's not a big loss.

Carnack wrote:

Not being a member of the LN community, I do not know the story going forward, so I can not comment. The story at this point is beginning to take a turn towards the darker aspects of mythology. Not everything is laughter and heroics anymore.

The episode did an excellent job portraying the mythology of the Amazons quite accurately and appropriately. Showing them as aggressive, powerful, confident warriors who do not answer to anyone else, be it socially, or morally.

The animation for the episode, while not being the most stunning thing to ever grace my retinas, was still quite pleasing and accentuated the scenes nicely. The lighting and colors instilled the necessary mood and increased the tension during critical moments.

The jokes and tropes used in this episode were amusing, if not over the top hilarious. Continuing with some of the series lightheartedness, all the while, the darker atmosphere slowly encroaches.

The story intrigued me without letting too much be revealed, leaving me wanting to know more in the next episode. New characters have been introduced, with deep stories and dark pasts.

I believe* this new direction the story is taking will be sure to raise the show out of its current 'rom-com action' feel and drive more towards an actual 'action adventure.' We will see how the story progresses.

* (While it may be objectively true that you believe this, it follows that any statement on the show after the phrase "I believe" is automatically subjective, if you have to "believe" it as opposed to stating it as fact.)

Anyway, you don't know what you're talking about, Carnack, and subjective or objective, your review blows. You really have no leg to stand on criticizing anyone else's writing.

Hobbie wrote:

When rewieving art, you should talk about art, not politics (especially with a work like DanMachi, which is a pure entertainement production).

All art is by its nature political. Reference: George Orwell
https://twitter.com/laura_hudson/status/1161857748696358912

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? II

Dahlia in Bloom Staff, Ekachi Epilka Studio Respond to Report Claiming N. Korean Animators Worked on Anime

The Grimm Variations Anime Series Review

Anime to Watch if You Liked Shogun

The Quintessential Quintuplets Manga Gets New Honeymoon Anime

BLUELOCK THE MOVIE -EPISODE NAGI- Anime Film Review

Interview: Author Akihiro Nishino on Bottle George, His New Stop-Motion Animated Film

The Spring 2024 Light Novel Guide

SAND LAND Video Game Review

This Week in Games - Atlus With the Old, In With the New

The Story of Suikoden

Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? II

Forum

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? II