Forum - View topicNEWS: Anime Expo to Require Proof of COVID-19 Vaccination or Negative Test
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510
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Who thinks that?! 
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enurtsol
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And so far, with the vaccination and mask mandate, AnimeNYC hasn't turned out to be a super-spreader In the GMA interview, the Minnesota guy said he thinks he caught Omicron outside the convention while hanging with friends 
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Actually, I think his point is that the PCR test should be required for all attendees, not just the unvaccinated. His suggestion is that, at this points it's egoistic (not egotistic) to not test vaccinated individuals as they can still be carriers and are still just as contagious when they are. Have to admit, that hadn't occurred to me before. |
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Vanadise
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Covidiots will often post things like "Vaccines don't work, I know somebody who was vaccinated and still caught it!!", which is very frustrating because we all know that no safety precaution is 100% effective. That's why it's important to stack multiple precautions, because every extra measure you add increases the effectiveness of the whole system.
If a large event like this was serious about being as safe as possible, the very least they should do is require proof of vaccination, require a negative PCR test, and require 100% mask usage (with an approved list of mask styles) from every attendee. They should also put a cap on attendance, design room layouts to make distancing easy, and it would really be a good idea to install a CO2 meter in every room in the venue to verify that it has sufficient ventilation. Alas, they're not, so I'm still not going back to anime cons any time soon... Here's a useful thread on prevention measures: https://twitter.com/jljcolorado/status/1463201894864621569 |
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Greed1914
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I'm not opposed to that. One of the things that seems pretty clear with the variants is that the vaccine does continue to mitigate the severity of symptoms, but transmission is still a big concern. It makes it pretty easy to unknowingly spread it if you feel fine going into it. We're at a point where things have to be balanced in a way that takes Covid into consideration. Obviously, various businesses and events cannot continue if they don't do anything in-person at all, but that also doesn't mean that they happen without significant mitigation measures in place. I don't think the convention scene has much of a future if it's constant spreader events. It's a hassle for everyone involved to deal with it, but we're beyond where things will be "normal" when it comes to big public events. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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WTF ?
Apparently we "refuse to put CDC notes on our forums." https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/animenewsnetwork.com#14 No one ever requested that AFAIK, and we never removed anyone's post related to CDC guidelines. |
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taster of pork
 Posts: 594 Location: My House |
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NeverConvex
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I kind of wonder about this last (italics-added) bit. From what I can tell, it seems to be how a number of official-ish communications have interpreted this study, but finding that transmission occurred at a significant enough rate to and from vaccinated persons in large, crowded public events to lead to a large number of infections in vaccinated persons doesn't imply that a vaccinated person who has experienced a break-through infection is equally likely to further transmit it to vaccinated or unvaccinated persons, and this contact-tracing study of intra-household transmission from infected-but-vaccinated to unvaccinated and vaccinated persons seems instead to estimate that infected-but-vaccinated persons are significantly less likely to further transmit ("Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to fully vaccinated household contacts was 40%...against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts was 63%"; side note, this measure is lower for transmission to other vaccinated people because they are already less likely to be infected, so the rate of new infections in them is already lower and harder to further reduce). I am not medically trained, certainly not a virologist nor epidemiologist, and don't spend enough time reading papers in this literature to be confident about the overall state of it, so maybe I'm missing something important, but I think the evidence suggests vaccination does guard against further transmission even when break-through infections occur (maybe because these break-through infections tend to be more symptomatically mild, thinking also of work that showed vaccinated persons tend to see much faster reductions in overall viral load?), even while current vaccine protection against infection, and current vaccine reduction of transmissibility, aren't sufficient in large, crowded settings to avoid major outbreaks, including among vaccinated persons (i.e., we don't have the tools right now to achieve herd immunity purely on the basis of vaccination). |
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Cutiebunny
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I don't know if it's really feasible to expect both a negative PCR test and immunization proof.
Assuming AX is going to operate at full, in person capacity in 2022, you're looking at an attendance of well over 100K individuals. Will they need to have a PCR test done on a daily basis? Can you imagine the staffing needed in order to verify this on a daily basis for every attendee and dealer? Additionally, a good chunk of AX's attendees are coming in from out of state and some are coming from out of country. What happens to those attendees who might test positive despite having received the full immunization and booster shot(s)? Canceling travel plans at the last minute means that they will likely not be refunded for hotel, flight and AX attendance fees. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I imagine it would be a single PCR test done within a week of the convention itself. There is no way to have people tested daily. Even if they had the staff and timing for it there is no way they would even be able to get that many tests to have them administered just once to every attendee. While I do feel for travelers the simple fact is when you travel like that to go somewhere there are always some sort of inherent risks involved. Cancelations, delays, etc. Traveling across country or internationally for a convention during a time when there is a global pandemic is even more risky. Anyone doing so should be aware of that risk. At that point it becomes their choice to take that risk regarding cancelations, delays, being turned away, etc. Especially for a convention that is in no way a necessity of any sort. It's why I still abstained from cons this year even when they were open. Otakon is right in my back yard as it where no less. This is all assuming they switch to requiring both the vaccine and negative test. As of now it's either or. Personally I think that's a huge mistake in regards to allowing people in simply based on a negative PCR test as opposed to the vaccine. But that's just me. I also think right now assuming they're operating at full capacity next year is a big speculation. They may plan to, but I would not be so sure with how things might play out. I simply wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket at this point. |
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Cutiebunny
Posts: 1748 |
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The problem with opening up a con as large as AX, assuming it'll be at full capacity, and not testing daily means that someone could easily get infected and then spread that to everyone in attendance. Unless they're planning on keeping everyone on site for the entirety of the event, there's no way to prevent anyone from coming in, getting exposed to something while grabbing a bite to eat, and then spreading that to everyone in the dealer hall. The most recent research from the UK is saying that even with a booster shot, you have a 25% chance of catching the Omicron and Delta variants. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59615005 Ideally, I would like to see cons operate with limited capacity in 2022. I am fine with paying more for admission with the understanding that this will be due to recouping costs incurred due to limiting attendance to safe levels. However, as most attendees tend to be under 25, higher ticket prices will not be popular among the bulk of the attendees. Perhaps cons can find some way of offsetting this. Perhaps AX can return to the days when the Premier Pass actually meant something (like back in 2014) instead of being just bragging rights. |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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As the saying goes "that's not how any of this works". |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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If everyone was vaccinated, and boostered, then it would not be "easy" to spread it to everyone in attendance. If that were the case then everyone at the recent NY con would have the new Omicron variant as we speak. I'm not going to personally debate the ease of spreading it, efficacy of the vaccines, or anything related to that line of thought as we could all be hear for days debating that. I want to focus on more easily focused logistical aspects. So once again, how would you expect that to even be feasible? It's not. People would be have to be in line for hours longer than normal just to get tested, just to even enter the building. You would need the multitude of extra staff needed to administer all the tests and keep things moving in some sort of reasonable time span. Those people would have to be QUALIFIED to even do it. Plus then you have the issue of congoers bribing them to look the other way. Those giving the tests might also simply not care. Are they even being paid? That's coming out of the con's budget then which is a financial disaster. Even if those 2 things were somehow by a miracle of God feasible, there is once again no way a convention like this would ever be allocated that many tests to do this for 3-4 days in a row. This is not some government building. This is not some actual large professional corporation having it's people tested. This is an anime con. It simply would not happen. Having that many people waiting outside the building forming huge lines that interrupt traffic, and everything else that would come with that, is also a hazard in of itself. The city itself might get involved and say "move out" to the people as they became a safety risk. There are just too many logistical reasons why the idea of testing there at the con could never happen in any reasonable manner. I would add to this saying that if you're at a convention of that size (or any size really) during this period of time with this virus, and it's variants, then you're accepting the risk. That's on you. Yes, we should all get vaccinated in my mind to help limit spreading this. Yes, cons should require proof of this vaccination. We should all do our part to be responsible and smart bout this. Let's not even get into the traveling aspect and the hordes of people you might encounter who are not vaccinated before you ever get to your hotel or the con itself. Who knows if the hotel you're at has any sort of vaccine mandate. At the end of the day you are still taking a risk being in an enclosed area with that many people, vaccine or no. YOU, the person, has to accept that risk and that is on you. |
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