Forum - View topicNEWS: Google: Unauthorized Manga Site Is Among Top 1,000 Sites
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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I largely agree with you, I was just arguing against the idea that merchandising should be the sole source of revenue or primary focus.
I think piracy is a problem, but not the problem a lot of people think it is. In this news article's case, it's interesting that some companies are encouraging behaviour that, to a consumer, seems identical to that of manga piracy on OneManga or wherever. That is, Viz with Rin-ne (which appears to be available in my region now. Wow). I'm still having trouble coming to terms with all the free streaming that's going on, too -- sometimes without advertising support. Wasn't exactly this practice, on YouTube etc., destroying the industry a few years ago? I'm guessing that in a generation or so, distribution and sales models will have changed immensely. It won't destroy the industry, just as the advent of gramophones and radios didn't destroy the music industry... but things will never be the same again. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Well for me personally it's support official chanels in your area as normally businesses don't want to move into areas where they will think that they will loose money. Certainly it is slower to go that way, but it is also more supportive and stable in some sense. I will note in that this idea/concept doesn't necessarily undermine digital distribution or streaming, it's more of you should support what you have now so that it will grow, big thing though is like The Dark Lord of Anime I can't see it viable in the concept of free streaming forever, we've got to move on at some point, right? As you grow a story may not speak to you the same way and sometimes the times change when the story is no longer relevant, certainly we can recognize that a cool-Aid Man comic exist but seeings as few people actually remember it speaks to it's importance.
Dissemination of culture will also happen when it wants to, speeding it up really doesn't help any, more it helps to seperate (For example it is kind of a good thing that some people think that Astro Boy is a U.S or your part of the world, it means they see it as their own as opposed to foreign idea or character) As to the "We're poor so it's okay" concept my philosophy doesn't like making exceptions, think of it summed up by the quote "Regardless of whether you are rich or poor it's always a crime to steal bread"-(Voltaire) So for me it doesn't really matter as if you really like the stuff you'll find a way, what I ask is do so legally and morally as in the long run that is the better path to take. Children have been able to do so (Fusion Fall when it was a subscription service.) and there are ways (Visa Gift cards, negotiating responsibly with one's parents, taking the drive of your wants to get the money you need in work.) As to the idea of poor in other nations it seems odd to me, as wouldn't they need a computer (expensive) and an internet connection (monthly fee, usually) or at least the ones anime fans claim to get (HD downloads, really cheap computers by Microsoft to get computers into peoples hands amazing devices they are not when it comes to things like watching a show or playing a game, intent is clear, they are educational tools) So already one can assume at least a large initial investment by someones (Hey doesn't necessarily be their computer, right?) and an investment for service. If it is their own then that means they certainly must have some money as a means, and after the initial "dip" in their computer investment, surely they could then afford other luxury goods. If it is not their own it depends on whose computer it is, a library could certainly play videos and certain games, but downloads are out of the question unless you have a place to put them (i.e. a DVD/CD or something similar in which you go back to your VCR/TV and can play, games maybe out of the question), Business computers normally have restrictions/you could be fired from your job type thing going on with them, last would be a friend's or parent's computer (meaning again you have a friend or in a family of enough means to afford some luxuries) than almost comes as a betrayal of trust in that certainly the computer was purchased with the intent to help one educate or aid in studies than as a way to get free entertainment, surely than it's almost a missed opportunity as while your spending time watching something and for me this personally egregious not learning anything (or going out of your way not learning anything) as opposed to finding a solution to the "I don't have enough money to get what I want." as your just sitting there, quite willing for someone else to take on the risk and responsibilities of your (this is a universal you....) "awesome" this will save the industry ideas as opposed to solving the lack of money problem (perhaps by taking on the risk and responsibility of your "awesome" idea to save the industry, as you know fate favors the bold.) So in short I find something spacious about that little line of thinking, as I sit here now with less than $300 in my personal checking.. I am a well educated but broke college grad, still doesn't change my position though in thinking that it would be okay for me to partake in illegal methods to get what I want, if I want it, I'll either wait or find a way now to make the money to get it. |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Isn't digital distribution more in line with how manga and anime are consumed in Japan? The manga weeklies are pretty much products that are meant to be discarded when you're done reading them. Anime is shown on television. DVDs are very expensive and are only bought by collectors. I could see digital manga distribution working very well in Japan, especially now that publishers are complaining cellphones and the like are taking over the trains.
You can still go out to a concert or see a band perform at a festival. It's the type of experience that can't be replaced. Recordings and live music can coexist just fine. It's the same with movies. Many people have excellent video and sound systems at home, but they still go to the movie theater. I think it'll be the same with manga and anime. Books and disc will still be available, but people will no longer be required to buy those if they just want to see/read something. |
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G00st543
Posts: 9 |
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I had a bunch of long, rambling things to say in response to what you said, but really, nobody really wants to read my personal history. I'll just sum it up like this, "I wouldn't be here if I did everything legally, but I try to pay for everything I consume at some point, somehow." At the same time, I don't believe that digital piracy has the same direct, economic ramifications as theft. A simple, fun little meme sums up why I believe as such. It's overly simple, yes. But stealing bread and experiencing an illegal copy have different ramifications. People would have a hard time going after stealing bread if, after the bread was lifted, the seller could still continue to sell bread as normal. And that's one of the things I feel the entertainment industry as a whole seems to miss. There's always going to be piracy, and it's not something they should feel they have to ignore, but the ramifications are amplified by their reactions. I'm running out of things to say, so this will likely be my last post. Thank's for the time, LordRedhand, good luck to you in the future. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Bread can mean more than just it's physical incarnation, doing something by force to change something is just as devastating (and by Taoism very fleeting, remember if you try to conquer what is under heaven then surely you shall loose it.) Seizing a power or right that was never yours to begin with can be the same as stealing bread. Anther way to read it would be "It doesn't matter who you are, a crime is a crime, so it doesn't make it right, regardless of of who you are or your personal circumstances."
Think about what life changing experience did you have that your a better person where you are now by doing what you did, as I look at my collection (it's posted here twice actually easiest is in the members section, I'll put a link to the other one...) and can proudly state that I did not use fansubs to achieve it, that my being poor doesn't give me something different from everyone else, that would lead to other exceptions, if doing this is okay what other rights of the individual are okay to trample? ?The first step to making a just world, is be just yourself and act accordingly, makes it hard to bring harm to another person when you support something that they are now competing against that which by all rights shouldn't exist, imagine competing against a version of yourself that is willing to cheat and not play by the rules, claiming that they are doing a good thing or "Helping". Confronting yourself then is something that the fandom should try to practice sometime, can maybe see what you are. Last edited by LordRedhand on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14763 |
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Is that the same Nina Paley as Sita Sings the Blues? 
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G00st543
Posts: 9 |
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Why, yes it is! I'm looking at amazon right now attempting to buy the DVD, but it seems the Canadian store is out of stock. @LordRedhand: once again, I'm not really going to go there. I'm under no delusions that I'm helping anyone. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14763 |
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She's like Makoto Shinkai.
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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You're placing the sense of entitlement on the wrong crowd, LRH. We've been over this, but you've yet to understand why your position is incorrect. Think about this entitlement when it comes to content, not products, LRH. Onemanga.com thrives while businesses fail. Here's another example of entitlement issues. |
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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Theatres and live concerts still exist, but nonetheless, music and film business models and distribution have changed dramatically. (As opposed to being destroyed, as many in the industries claimed they would be). I didn't mean change as in something new will entirely replace all current systems. Not so sure about discs, though. We'll see if we live that long. With portable electronic viewers improving, even books have the possibility of becoming something of a novelty (not saying that's a good thing). It's hard to imagine, but then, you don't see many scrolls nowadays. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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People always go to concerts, and I support it whole heartedly because usually the band/musician is getting the majority of the money versus the label they're signed with. Since the RIAA began suing fans for downloads, there's been a serious Anti-Music Industry sentiment against the companies, not the musicians, and all the companies are still struggling and I don't think many will recover. More and more musicians and bands, with technology and distribution the way it is now in the digital era are taking out the middle man, aka Virgin Records, Capital Records, Island, Warner, Epic, etc. They're a dying breed. Bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead have already released albums successfully on their own, while smaller acts such as Amanda Palmer/The Dresden Dolls are finally thriving without companies after being let out of their contracts with whatever company they were with. Fans have no problem supporting the musician by seeing the live acts, and I personally can't recall the last album I bought in a store since I've just gotten in the habit of buying all the CDs at the merch table at shows from the artist directly. The only thing keeping the recording industry afloat at the moment is that they have all the music video channels/radio stations in their pockets, meaning they control what is exposed to the masses which translates as they'll continue to rake in the sales with the few artist still signed under them. A law was passed some years ago with the FCC to demand independent artist get a certain amount of air time on such channels, but somehow that law was pushed under the carpet, and none of the main channels and radio stations are following it. If they are, it's in the dead of night when no one is listening. This stuff won't last long at this rate. A lot of the big time musicians are just waiting for their contracts to expire if they're not already releasing under their own label. MTV-USA is already dead in terms of the control it had of what's big in music. With people discovering music for themselves online, they'll start thinking and developing taste. We're about to hit an independent music revolution in my opinion, if we're not already seeing it. All the music industry now is a stepping stone to get airplay and music video money on. Manga however is different. Unless the Japanese publishers decide to publish their titles here directly, you won't be seeing anything of the sort with the "taking out the middle man." The best format to distribute manga is still book form, and it's too pricey to start your own publishing company here in America. Instead we see them making partnerships with already established publishing houses, like Del Rey/Random House. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I don't know if implying that those who listen to the radio has having not developed tastes in music, as I'm pretty sure they have, unless you want to imply that it somehow is inferior to other independent artists....
Add in that independent labels are struggling with piracy (this anti-industry thing is hitting the smaller ones too, see Underoath's label in struggling with piracy and getting album sales and that constant touring is draining the label's coffers such that they struggle to sign other bands to their label, I think currently there is a grand total of 3 bands on that label, so big music company it is not.) Also when I tend to mention independent artist's I get more head scratching than a hey I recognize them, even with a band that got one of their songs playing on Adult Swim as the opening and instrumental version closing for an Adult Swim original, Sealab 2021. The band's website http://www.calamine.com/home.html made it they have not. Also add the big ace that MTV has, which is the Rock Band and Rock Band Network platforms, with every song being released giving an album's information and is seen as boosting album sales, as if I limited myself to just seeing bands live I'd say I'm limiting myself. (Actually finding "foreign" bands from Canada and the U.K. (and Germany, yeah my German is weak...) through an MTV platform, gasp discovering indie music through a big label, is possible yes?) |
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