Forum - View topicIs Re:Zero a hit? Why?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I think it's a hit, from the closest thing to an objective view I can come up with. The reason I say that is because it entertains with a broad appeal of interests but doesn't spread itself to thin by going all over the place with themes. Also shows of this genre tend to have trouble attaining hit status, so I think it really has broken barriers when it comes particularly to the fantasy and romance genres. This is all despite not being particularly action-packed or filled with flashy visuals, technical aspects or fight scenes.
Some of the qualities I'd like to mention about this show that is winning harts with fans is as follows: Character development is very closely linked with a lot of the mysteries and thrills that are presented with the fantasy world. We literally go into each episode with "what is this person about? What makes him or her tick? Why did they do that?" The most compelling examples of this being both Rem and Ram. Proof of this is when viewers discover they are spoiler[demons], yet it fails to put a dent in their moe archetype status. Moreover, the popularity of this show has fed off of the desire fans had for more "MMO player stuck in video game world" such as Sword Art Online, yet it's not actually another "one of those shows." It's qualifies more along the lines of Is it Wrong to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? which implies the world is real and the main character is physically there. Yet I've noticed how Re:Zero has been an entertaining outlet to remind us about popular VG and JRPG tropes. I myself am only halfway through the season, but I can tell the 2nd half will attest to the lasting and impressive popularity of this show. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24122 |
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It certainly sounds like it is popular. I dropped it around episode 10, I think. The second arc really exhausted my patience for the show. I didn't like the MC and the sound of his seiyuu's voice annoyed me. I would read some of the comments in the discussion thread after that and nothing convinced me that I had made a mistake in dropping it. I am usually part of the crowd when it comes to the big hits: Bakamonogatari, SOA, Attack on Titan, etc, but I just couldn't get behind this one.
Oops, just occured to me I guess my post is a little off-topic since I really have no idea why this show is a hit. Not being a fan, it's really hard for me to determine the source of its appeal. I guess maybe the mystery of the looping deaths intrigued folks? Also, some of the humour was pretty decent. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Yeah the Return by Death is an interesting twist because unless this show actually was the within-a-video-game type, Subaru is just a respawning player and that serves no purpose. But he's actually dying and the viewer must speculate what's causing that and who or what is responsible for that phenomenon. The show really sells itself on its various mysteries and WTF moments, as many successful series do. Perhaps the difference occurs for the fans and the viewers who decide to drop in terms of whether they'll become emotionally and intellectually invested into those various mysteries. I personally find them quite intriguing.
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10000 Location: Virginia |
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I couldn't get past the basic concept. First that to change he had to die. They are taking death too easy. It is usually painful and should have emotional consequences that would derail the concept. Second he is stated to wake up in a different world every time. To me that says that no matter how much you were invested in the people around him they are abandoned. It doesn't matter if he sees a duplicate of each of the people in the new world, somewhere in the old world the characters are trying to cope with the way things were when the main character (and our view of them) died.
I can't imagine how you could make a show like that enjoyable, at any rate not to me. Pass. |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5143 |
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I haven't finished this yet, but I just loved Suburu's monologue at the end of episode 18. The graphics weren't half bad, either!
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louis6578
 Posts: 1875 |
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Why is it a hit? What does it do right? Well...
A self-insert character with a full personality. This may sound odd, but we are supposed to see ourselves in Subaru. Despite the fact that self-insert characters are usually attributed with bland POV characters like Keitaro or Kirito, all it really means is that the character is supposed to be a sort of proxy for the audience. Despite this, Subaru doesn't come across as a bland laboratory test subject in an attempt to create the perfect "average joe." He's an eccentric Otaku. A pop-culture loving nobody like us, but with a few positive traits that don't come across as silly and forced. He's physically fit and capable of holding his own in a fight, but he's not a top-tier fighter (heck, he even gets scared when they guys pull a weapon on him). He's kindhearted and will do what is necessary to help his loved ones, yet he isn't some sort of unrealistic messiah. He has fears and the stress of saving everyone gets to him, but he pushes through with the help of his friends. He won't just act depressed to be edgy for a few episodes. This is the sort of psychological trauma that's easy to understand. He can be driven by anger, revenge, and selfishness at times, but will always do the right thing in the end. Basically, Subaru is the perfect mix of wish-fulfillment and genuine relatability. His accomplishments are earned, not given to him. He succeeds in the end just barely, and never becomes more than an ordinary person. The girls aren't just there in service of harem bait either. They're all incredibly three-dimensional and well-written. Never are they merely Subaru's waifus. Heck, only two of them are romantically interested in him anyway. I admit that the number of females in the cast is a little tough to justify (come on... all the candidates to rule the kingdom are girls?) but when you get around that, they're not really pandering too much. In a lesser show, this would be about Subaru getting girls, but if anything, he is defined by the effect they have on his life, not the other way around. The respawn also fills a niche that, while understated, has a lot of fans. Timeloops are very popular to a lot of people. In particular, the kind where you reset voluntarily to stop tragedy, rather than the time loop that just happens because of reasons. Higurashi doesn't work because the one who remembers these time loops doesn't reveal herself until later on, and she's barely the focus until season 2. Haruhi's loop was just a trolling on the creator's part. Madoka and Steins;Gate did this well, but didn't truly focus the show on it. Madoka focused an episode on the concept while Steins;Gate doesn't really do it until the second half. People love psychological trauma that they can understand. Not a psychic mind attack, but actual trauma caused by stress. A lot of the time, these sorts of stories are done poorly in an attempt to be super edgy (like Future Diary), but here, the creator knows what he's doing. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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To second Louis6578 comment, Re Zero has an entire package of features.
Subaru himself can feel overly annoying and dense if not ignorant to social etiquette, which falls in line with his character as before the events was easily painted as a shut in few, if any, friended loser. An intriguing villain is in the form Betelgeuse, his demeanor at times can be taken as an exaggerated form of what Subaru could appear like to those unfamiliar with him spoiler[and as a twist Subaru is apparently a top of the line vessel to possess for Betelgeuse] Betelgeuse obsession for his "Witch waifu Satella" can be interpreted in how some of the creepier fandom can be when it comes to fictional characters or media personalities. Re Zero has a dense amount of concepts aside from the surface level of "reviving from death" and "fantasy setting", Re Zero is also the exception to the over used "transported to another world" scenario that has plagued LNs and subsequent anime adaptation work. |
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Iemander
 Posts: 443 |
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I think you guys think too much.
The reason why the show is very popular is because it's creative and well written. Many dialogues are very well done and the series is creative enough that people are genuinely surprised by what happens. And Subaru is also pretty well done, he's deeply flawed and the series makes no expense to display that. But it also makes it possible for him to actually grow. He's not as predefined as most anime characters usually are. |
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Morry
Posts: 756 |
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What show are you watching? One of the biggest positives I see fans talk about for this show is how it does examine the emotional, psychological, and physical toll of dying. Especially with how much Subaru himself dies.
What? No where is it stated that that is what happens. The series has stuck to the idea of it being him reloading to a previous save point in the presumably same world, ie travelling back in time. I've seen fan theories about parallel worlds being in play, but the show never confirms this to be the case. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's a hit because, whether or not they particularly like Subaru himself, a lot of fans like what's done with him. Combined with its general mystery/thriller aspects and it makes for a very engaging series for a lot of people. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10000 Location: Virginia |
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@Morry
I'm not watching it, that is the whole point. The emotional and psychological trauma of repeatedly dying and coming back, remembering what happened makes the show a no go for me. What ever put him in this position is essentially torturing him. I should point out that unless he comes back with physical disability due to the death, there is no physical toll only the emotional reaction. Regarding the second point, I suspect I was misled by some of the early discussion. Coming back to a "save point" is a bit ridiculous. You can do that in a game because you don't actually experience the physical agony of dying and your emotional reaction is based on having failed at the game. If someone were really put in such a situation I expect that after the first few deaths he would be a very paranoid emotional basket case. While I can accept that some people (apparently a lot of people) enjoy something like this I find the concept distasteful. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Which is amusing you mention that, as such a condition becomes a crux for one of his revival cycles.
The nature of the show is that is only one aspect with numerous other ideas and characters which make sure that Re Zero isn't simply a "torture simulation". During the halfway point of the series, there is a summit between five principle female characters who are presenting there case to be the new high priestess (interpreted as Ruler of the lands) each one presents a distinct philosophy of ruling which each vary enough that one could find a real life counterpart example. That is just a tidbit on where the show is putting effort beyond "lets see how we can make our Lead die this episode" |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10000 Location: Virginia |
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@FenixFiesta
The bit with the five female characters sound like an interesting concept worthy of a different show. I'm not trying to say that this is a bad show or that the people who enjoy it are bad people. I'm saying that this is a show I cannot and will not watch, with an explanation of why. All the interesting bits in the show cannot get me past the idea that the poor bastard of a main character dies repeatedly. I assume that since he is young that few if any of the deaths happen quietly in his sleep. I accept that people like this show, it is just that on an emotional level I can't understand why. In response to the original post I was trying to point out that the show's popularity was not universal. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11577 |
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Well, spoiler[one of them does.  Another is a suicide, which I assure you he doesn't decide on frivolously.]
Just out of curiosity, did you also abandon Log Horizon when it became clear early on that they could respawn at the Church? It's ok with me if you don't watch either one of those, but it's interesting that your objection is exactly the opposite of meiam's (who also hadn't seen the series) that such a protagonist could find all sorts of easy, painless ways to die to get out of trouble and it would become boring if it were played realistically, and stupid if it wasn't. ("For example the fight with the knight, he could have just trained a bit, then killed himself to train some more, rinse and repeat a few hundreds time and boom, he's the best fighter in the entire world just like that."  )
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louis6578
Posts: 1875 |
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No offense, but if you're dedicated to not watching the show, you don't really have the sort of right to speak about it due to not knowing a lot of the finer details. ^^;; I recommend you see it even if it's just to say "I saw it and it greatly discomforted me."
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15571 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I think that this is a very important post, because it kind of perfectly explains the worries I had with going into the series. That it was making death cheap, it was cheapening on growing character interaction growth, and in general the genre has kind of got some problems with the insert character thing. But how it defied all of those points is in my opinion what makes it such a hit. Who here plays video games and has before purposely got themselves killed so they could load back an earlier save? I am pretty sure a number of us younger viewers might have done so, or maybe to a lesser extent we are familiar with dying in a game and telling ourselves that we will do better next time. I think what kind of hits with the going to a fantasy world is that it is kind of a familiar feeling to picking up a video game and us trying to be a hero in the role we found ourselves in. In a way the merging of these anime with the video game elements are a way to kind of engage the audience. Recent trends like SAO made it a literal game. But ReZero kind of chose make the setting mostly just a fantasy setting, some elements may seem familiar to games, but are mild to the actual media and most references come from Subaru himself, and most specifically is the power private to Subaru of loading back a save point after a death. The loading back after death is really the only elements taken, and it instead seems to have been retrofitted from its usual medium and into that of anime (or novels for the original), it kind of essentially takes one part of one medium and making it a part of another, making an interesting combination. Now the combination of the two is in a way just by itself fanservice, there is not much deeper to it unless ReZero decides that it will choose to actually explore it in a way it might not otherwise. Next I want to talk about a particular game that took the internet by storm, Undertale. Undertale does a lot of things right, among those was that it turned the usual act of battling monsters into a way of defying the violence and instead allowing actual pacifism, that conflicts could be avoided. Another interesting thing that Undertale did was that rather than saving and loading only being a mechanic to play the game, it was actually used with a way to interact with the player, options or dialogue would open up if actually loaded back and loading back was actually integral to the plot. Re Zero kind of did the exact same thing, except it used it in anime to do so. Subaru was not always the type that could do the right thing first time, whether it was the correct path to confront an assassin or gaining the trust of those around him which would be key to survival. A different path in one line could lead him to see a totally different side, and this is what I want to say saved it with character interaction. Most characters would seem cliché and would react to him in how you might expect them to, except something happened when he went back, for some reason they acted differently. People would act differently to him because he acted differently to them, and that is something that is a bit hard to normally show, but it was because these characters are kind of three dimensional. Emilia would be really nice in one meeting, while in another would get angry over how she was greeted. Rem would kind of blend and seem to put Subaru down by comparison in one, but another showed that she has low self esteem and had no idea how to react from attention, and in yet another she acted quite strongly. Ram could seem hot headed in one, before seen as thoughtful and caring in another. Sure all of these could be shown with how characters acted over time, but the true tasty side of it was that it showed these characters had their own thoughts. Of course interaction was not always easy when he would find his relationship with them had reset, but the show did not skimp on this. It was highlighted that Subaru could feel pretty hurt that he lost his progress with the other characters, and I think focus was put on how in some respect it made their relationships a bit one sided. But as Subaru grew to understand the other characters, he actually only had stronger feelings about them. It kind of is a bit similar to say the anime fanboy who cares about characters because they have been on an adventure with those characters, but in the end those adventures are reset and it kind of means nothing to them. Some focus really is put on a kind of worship of the a character one would call a waifu, on how it unhealthy, not on the side that they are fictional, but that it is not treating that character like a person. Characters are treated as trophy like ideals and it is disrespectful. Facing the hero complex idea that a hero saves the day and thus deserves the girl because they earned it, was a kind of tough thing to face for Subaru, and really it is a step in acknowledging the possessive idea of that frame of mind. Some pretty harsh thing happen and it is shown quite strongly the damage on the psyche that the usually thought harmless reloading by death could have on someone, that the experience would not be something wish fulfilling at all. And it is all used to kind of come to a healthy message of self worth and being productive, that talk can be cheap, acting out of impulse can be the easy method of handling something, but sitting down to think things over and then carrying out a plan can be truly rewarding, and it is often not too late to try and start things over if you put the energy into it. And if you feel like you are worthless, there might be something right in front of you that at first does not seem like a big deal, but maybe to someone else it was. If a character can actually grow in a timely and believable fashion to go from kind of annoying yet maybe a little relatable, to actually being able to apply himself and have attractive traits like a healthy amount of modesty, it is a good character. Did I answer the question? The show is also well made, it sounds and looks good, and plays out well. Maybe I should have gone back and added that a bunch of characters tend to be found to be more than they first appear, that is more than their stereotype. And the crazy over the top villain kind of had some relevance as a nasty side of the main character and on otaku culture, as well as being kind of funny. Actually, I was wonder how I would fit it in, but Re Zero has also reminded me of the video game series, Dark Souls. Dark Souls is known for a number of things a kind of vague perhaps morally ambiguous fantasy setting, and rather than feeling like it is holding the hands of the player/viewer, it feels like it trusts them to put things together. Many consider Dark Souls a kind of torture, , a super hard game that will feel like a punishment, how Subaru can apparently mercilessly die against crushing defeat was not lost on some viewers. But to a number of people who click with Dark Souls, they feel that the game is not unfair, no it is punishing, but it is kind of fair in how it actually gives warning if you keep your eyes out. To me ReZero is kind of the same way, some really bad things happen, but if you keep focus it can be a learning experience and there can be some actual growth involved. |
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