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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:42 pm
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| Vaisaga wrote: | | Shu only did any major wallowing in episode 10 and that's because something traumatic happened. If the 2nd opening is any indication now he's going to stand up and further level up in badassitude. |
I agree with you partly, but I hope he doesn't change too much. I am somewhat irritated honestly with people who expect everyone to be totally unphased at death or killing. It's kind of scary if they actually are the same in real life...
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3904
Location: CO
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:38 pm
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| Dardre wrote: | About Lagrange:
| Quote: | | ...kidnapped and forced into fight after fight |
Can you kindly direct me to when she was kidnapped? I'm pretty sure she was asked to help by Lan. A request she accepted, which is something of her defining trait: she likes to help others. They just "neglected" to tell her it was a full-time commitment until after she activated the robot. And she later acknowledges that she's the type to "finish what she starts", even if she was tricked into it. |
I dunno, "Hey, come with us! By the way, you can't go home now" kind of sounds like kidnapping to me. I'm not sure why neglecting to tell her the full terms of the commitment is okay, as long as she originally went of her own volition.
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| Quote: | | ...but they should at least be upset with their change in circumstances, and least want to know if they're allowed to go home for dinner. |
She is upset. Quite upset. Does she freak out and run away into a movie theater to sulk? No, but she does make it very clear that she's not happy with being tricked into this. And she does what so many emo-pilots fail to do, she tells them straight out without sounding like she's whining. In fact, those involved actually look ashamed of themselves; except creepy-alien-guy with the closed eyes. And her "big sister" is even more displeased by it all. Hell, even the human commander is unhappy with it. |
She's a teenage girl being forced to pilot a robot full-time, to put her life on the line, without any prior training or full disclosure as to her terms of employment. Her level of upsetness, which quickly dissipated, really does not match the severity of the situation she's in.
I'm sorry, but I don't see why "whining" about being told to sacrifice your life and having to move away from home to fight aliens from dusk till dawn = emo. It's called being realistic. Think about every war in which soldiers were drafted, and the psychological impact it had on them. I'd like to see how you'd react in this situation.
As for Shu wallowing like a pig in the mud in his angst, he is reacting completely normally for a kid told that, "Hey, so you have this power where you can pull objects out of people's chests, and by the way, can you lay your life on the line and fight for us? Thanks!"
This is how NORMAL humans react in traumatizing, LIFE-CHANGING situations. Not just, "Welp, okay, gotta pilot this robot now!"
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3665
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:53 pm
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| SakechanBD wrote: | | This is how NORMAL humans react in traumatizing, LIFE-CHANGING situations. Not just, "Welp, okay, gotta pilot this robot now!" |
That's a lot of the draw for these series, though. It's become sort of a subsubversion of the genre, in backlash to those who insist that things need to be taken with seriousness and realism. Lagrange is not as good at it as a show like Gurren Lagann, or Aquarion, but it's essentially throwing down and saying "Yeah, we're just having fun here. Do you have something to say?" I'm someone who got into anime while shows like Evangelion, RahXephon, and even Fafner were the genre standard, and from my perspective, shows like Lagrange are the subversive genre deconstructions. Seeing someone treat riding a giant robot to save the world with the seriousness it deserves (i.e. not very much) is kind of refreshing.
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Dardre
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 166
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:19 pm
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| SakechanBD wrote: | | She's a teenage girl being forced to pilot a robot full-time, to put her life on the line, without any prior training or full disclosure as to her terms of employment. Her level of upsetness, which quickly dissipated, really does not match the severity of the situation she's in. |
Maybe because, I don't know, THEY WERE BEING ATTACKED? You think that might have been why she seems to have gotten over it too quickly? And "severity of the situation"? She says outright that she's pissed that they are shoving the responsibility of saving the world onto her shoulders. But she doesn't have time to dwell on that because the enemy are attacking. In other words, she acted like someone who's mature enough to recognize when it's NOT the time to express her anger toward her allies.
| Quote: | | This is how NORMAL humans react in traumatizing, LIFE-CHANGING situations. Not just, "Welp, okay, gotta pilot this robot now!" |
This is a Super-robot show, not Real Robot. It's a staple of the genre for the hero to be fairly accepting of being a pilot. You should know that. And "dusk to dawn"? Kind of early to call that, don't you think? Or are you drawing info from somewhere else? So far, it's been less than a day, actually probably only a few hours at most. She hasn't had time for the situation to set in and the audience hasn't had time to really see how she's dealing with things. We've had three episodes, one of which is a full episode battle that carries over from the previous episode. Also, the enemies are expressly not trying to kill her or destroy her Vox, but to capture them. This is also made clear by the third enemy using non-lethal attacks.
| Quote: | | As for Shu wallowing like a pig in the mud in his angst, he is reacting completely normally for a kid told that, "Hey, so you have this power where you can pull objects out of people's chests, and by the way, can you lay your life on the line and fight for us? Thanks!" |
Oh, then I stand corrected. He wallowed in his special snowflakiness, which led to angst. That was what I meant about "wallowing in angst". "No one thinks like me! No one feels like me! No one understands me! What? You're saying you have to work to understand others? Ha! That's stupid! Everyone knows it's instant! And even if it's true, everyone should be trying to understand me first!"
He ran from everything when it was made obvious that he would have to fight. But instead of staying gone, he kept coming back for the idol he was crushing on. And even then, he refused to take responsibility for his own actions and lack of action. He was told not to follow Inori. He ignored it. He was told to go home. He didn't. He made those choices, he placed himself in a situation that caused a lot of problems for people. He never goes beyond "why me" when asking questions, and resents it when told it's because of his own choices. Living with the consequences of your choices is what being an adult is about, and last time I checked teens were in the process of growing into adults.
The problem with Shu is that we get too much of the childishness and not enough of the emerging adult, especially when contrasted with every other teenage member of Undertaker.
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Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13235
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:05 pm
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| SakechanBD wrote: | | She's a teenage girl being forced to pilot a robot full-time, to put her life on the line, without any prior training or full disclosure as to her terms of employment. Her level of upsetness, which quickly dissipated, really does not match the severity of the situation she's in. |
While I understand your point, I think how she's reacted is perfectly within her character. At first she was cool with helping out a new friend, but when she was told she had to save the world the pressure of that got to her until her cousin gave her an earful. Now it's a matter of seeing it through to the end and stopping those pesky aliens from messing up her precious home town.
But if her reaction bothers you I have to point out how in Space Pirates Marika has a similar "not getting the severity of the situation" reaction. She's told her dad is dead, was a pirate, now she needs to become a pirate, now she's got a bunch of guys after her, pirates become teachers at her school, her school's ship comes under cyber attack, her mom shows her how to shoot guns, etc. Her reaction to all this is... extremely understated. Heck, she also dives head first into the cyber warfare despite saying she has never done it before and just wants to try it.
I have no problem with either heroines. While I don't blame characters like Shu for being angsty, it is nice to see leads that don't dwell on their problems and do what they can.
Last edited by Vaisaga on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ikillchicken
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:06 pm
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| SakechanBD wrote: | | As for Shu wallowing like a pig in the mud in his angst, he is reacting completely normally for a kid told that, "Hey, so you have this power where you can pull objects out of people's chests, and by the way, can you lay your life on the line and fight for us? Thanks!"
This is how NORMAL humans react in traumatizing, LIFE-CHANGING situations. Not just, "Welp, okay, gotta pilot this robot now!" |
That may be true but let's keep something important in mind: Shu was an insufferable, whiny little shit long before he learned about his powers or got mixed up in the fight.
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Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13235
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:10 pm
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| ikillchicken wrote: | | That may be true but let's keep something important in mind: Shu was an insufferable, whiny little shit long before he learned about his powers or got mixed up in the fight. |
No he wasn't. He was extremely apathetic and was just coasting through life. If he did any complaining it was in his head.
Considering what went on in his past why he was like that makes sense.
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Dardre
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 166
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:32 pm
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| ikillchicken wrote: | | That may be true but let's keep something important in mind: Shu was an insufferable, whiny little shit long before he learned about his powers or got mixed up in the fight. |
| Vaisaga wrote: | | No he wasn't. He was extremely apathetic and was just coasting through life. If he did any complaining it was in his head. |
Unfortunately, we the audience had the "privilege" of hearing those thoughts and lonely monologues.
| Quote: | | Considering what went on in his past why he was like that makes sense. |
And this revelation came about ten episodes too late for me to care, frankly. By that point he was just an anime version of an internet "speshul snowflake". That impression was just too strong for the later revelation of the extreme trauma to completely overcome. Or put another way, he was shown to the audience to be too whiny and self-pitying for way too long for me.
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poonk
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1490
Location: In the Library with Philip
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:22 pm
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| Bamboo wrote: | | Brave10 is little more than an excuse to parade around a collection of flamboyant character designs, and serve up some pointless action sequences. |
Aww, this & Natsume are the only shows I'm watching this season. Even so I can't offer up any sort of defense for the former. If I'm honest with myself I'm just half-hoping they come out with some nice figures (of the guys) a la Hakuouki so that I don't feel I've wasted my time.
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ikillchicken
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:05 am
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| Vaisaga wrote: |
| ikillchicken wrote: | | That may be true but let's keep something important in mind: Shu was an insufferable, whiny little shit long before he learned about his powers or got mixed up in the fight. |
No he wasn't. He was extremely apathetic and was just coasting through life. If he did any complaining it was in his head. |
Your point then? The fact that he whined "in his head" in no way makes him less whiny or insufferable.
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KentaMaeba
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:07 am
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Perhaps the biggest mistake Guilty Crown has done until now is just one word: Shuu. For a 17 year old, he's a bit of a wimp... or so I thought. Turns out he's the biggest, whiniest, most retarded douchebag in the entire series. We never get a good explanation on why he's doing what he does (other than some useless split-second flashbacks). Why was he chosen as the main focus of the story? Shuu is a weak character, not just in the way that he’s bland and dull but also because he simply has no charisma. He's just a poorly made plot-device. Not to mention it's his own damn fault that the city's in danger in the first place.
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