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LagannImpact
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 574
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:42 am
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Well, that's pretty awesome! Too bad Fate/Zero probably never will get a dub unlike its older brother Fate/Stay Night.
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ArsenicSteel
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 am
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| I AM THE VAST UNIVERSE wrote: | | I'm not a fan of Aniplex whatsoever I strongly dislike how they handle their products they rarely ever release English dubs for their anime and the prices they set for them are far beyond what I can afford.
The solid sales that came Fate/Zero simply means that they will keep doing everything in their backwards way.I'm really thankful that Funimation is around if it wasn't for them rarely would I be able to afford buying good anime at reasonable prices. |
It's funny how some(the same) people will criticize a working business model as being backwards, stupid, non-functional, and/or dying just because it doesn't meet their personal needs.
F/Z as it is now, sold well. It made a large profit. What more should a business aspire to?
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bhl88
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 255
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:16 am
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| ArsenicSteel wrote: |
| I AM THE VAST UNIVERSE wrote: | | I'm not a fan of Aniplex whatsoever I strongly dislike how they handle their products they rarely ever release English dubs for their anime and the prices they set for them are far beyond what I can afford.
The solid sales that came Fate/Zero simply means that they will keep doing everything in their backwards way.I'm really thankful that Funimation is around if it wasn't for them rarely would I be able to afford buying good anime at reasonable prices. |
It's funny how some(the same) people will criticize a working business model as being backwards, stupid, non-functional, and/or dying just because it doesn't meet their personal needs.
F/Z as it is now, sold well. It made a large profit. What more should a business aspire to? |
That same 'backwards, stupid, non-functional, and/or dying' company just earned $20 million in profit and #9 in the US side.
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ikillchicken
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:21 am
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| ArsenicSteel wrote: | | F/Z as it is now, sold well. It made a large profit. What more should a business aspire to? |
Well, I for one am still of the mind that "make as much money as you possibly can" should not be the be all, end all rule for business. I still believe that there's something to be said for treating your customers right and selling a product at a fair price. Then again, I'm just a filthy, free market hating socialist. 
Of course, to be fair, they basically need to do this. I can't really deny that given Justin's recent articles. At least in the short term this is just the only way anime works. I'd like to think that in the past, and perhaps again at some point in the future, there will be a way to make money on anime without expecting people to pay these insane prices (and there certainly is in America even now). Unfortunately, in Japan, right now, there's just no real way to make money off people who aren't collectors, not with truly adult oriented animation, and there are only enough collectors out there to make money if you charge these prices.
So I don't know. I guess it's just a cluserfuck.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:45 am
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| ikillchicken wrote: | | Well, I for one am still of the mind that "make as much money as you possibly can" should not be the be all, end all rule for business. |
You would rather businesses used less efficient methods? Profit is how the market signals that an entrepreneur is fulfilling people's wants enough to cover his costs.
| Quote: | | I still believe that there's something to be said for treating your customers right and selling a product at a fair price. |
What's a "fair price"? Value is entirely subjective and several tens of thousands demonstrated that they felt the money was worth less to them than the box set and whatever non-"right" treatment they got. Every trade/purchase(that is, trading money/fiduciary media for goods or services) is made because both parties feel they'll be better off than if they didn't go through with it.
| Quote: | Then again, I'm just a filthy, free market hating socialist. |
You're making economic arguments with zero understanding of the subject. That's not a matter of politics.
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LordByron227
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 158
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:07 am
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Thats why he's a socialist. :thumbsup:
Sadly, I F/T college student with a P/T job can't really justify this purchase. Maybe if I was born earlier, and I would have graduated by now. But who knows, maybe even then, I can't justify dropping 740 on a 26 episode series. Maybe you have to be a true Nasu fan to like this stuff. I mean I played F/SN and Fate/Extra on the PSP, but I guess I never felt the addiction hit me. I mean the only thing this had for me was that it would be quite limited and run out so it would mean I would miss out owning what looks like to me a great series.
:sigh: Here's to hoping they'll use some of that 20mil for a cheaper R1 release eh.
Anyways, good for Aniplex for their nice return...(although do we know their production costs for this series though.)
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:08 am
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| LordByron227 wrote: | | Anyways, good for Aniplex for their nice return...(although do we know their production costs for this series though.) |
That information's almost never revealed, but I highly doubt the budget for both seasons combined was $20 million.
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V1046-R
Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 172
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:35 am
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| ikillchicken wrote: |
| ArsenicSteel wrote: | | F/Z as it is now, sold well. It made a large profit. What more should a business aspire to? |
Well, I for one am still of the mind that "make as much money as you possibly can" should not be the be all, end all rule for business. I still believe that there's something to be said for treating your customers right and selling a product at a fair price. Then again, I'm just a filthy, free market hating socialist.
Of course, to be fair, they basically need to do this. I can't really deny that given Justin's recent articles. At least in the short term this is just the only way anime works. I'd like to think that in the past, and perhaps again at some point in the future, there will be a way to make money on anime without expecting people to pay these insane prices (and there certainly is in America even now). Unfortunately, in Japan, right now, there's just no real way to make money off people who aren't collectors, not with truly adult oriented animation, and there are only enough collectors out there to make money if you charge these prices.
So I don't know. I guess it's just a cluserfuck. |
IMO the way people describe the business model here, it sounds rather sketchy to me. I would think it rather precarious to rely on a relatively small customer base's propensity to overspend as a good business model. I admit I do not know anything more about the biz than what I read on places like this, so just responding to what I see here. What it sounds like people are describing is a pricing bubble. We all know what happens to those bubbles. The moment someone comes up with a better idea that is adopeted by consumers or other economic shifts occur, all the old bubbles burst & businesses crumble.
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V1046-R
Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 172
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:47 am
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| Polycell wrote: | | You would rather businesses used less efficient methods? Profit is how the market signals that an entrepreneur is fulfilling people's wants enough to cover his costs. |
I am pro business & agree in the supply/demand model to determine price you sell your product (at least for non essential products like entertainment. Life essentials like food & water should not only be available to the highest bidders of course).
All this business discussion on selling anime is a rather curious thing to me though, because my American thoughts on entrepreneurship is you get as many customer as you possible can by making a product most people can afford. That is how you build a marginal business into an empire...make something most people can afford, and convince as many as possible they really need to buy this thing (whataver it is you are selling).
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Angel M Cazares
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 5437
Location: Iscandar
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:00 am
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This is a business model plan I hope makes lots of people buy anime in the United States.
For a 11-15 episode series, x company will release three premium volumes with tons of extras ($80 per volume), the three regular blu-ray editions will cost $35 each and the three regular DVD editions can cost $23 each. If 1,000 people buy all three premium volumes, 4,000 people buy all three BD volumes and 2,000 people buy all three DVD volumes, that will generate $800,000 on sales.
If the U.S. distributor uses $300,000 in dubbing, subbing, packaging and advertising, the anime creators could potentially receive $500,000. The same model could be used in 24-28 episodes series. If the same number of people buy 4 premium volumes at $100 each, 4 BD volumes at $45 each and 4 DVD volumes at $33 each, that would generate more than $1,300,000. If $400,000 go to the U.S. distributor, the anime makers could be left with $900,000
Last edited by Angel M Cazares on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Surrender Artist
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:03 am
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| Polycell wrote: |
| ikillchicken wrote: | | Well, I for one am still of the mind that "make as much money as you possibly can" should not be the be all, end all rule for business. |
You would rather businesses used less efficient methods? Profit is how the market signals that an entrepreneur is fulfilling people's wants enough to cover his costs. |
Well, money isn't the only thing to be greedy for. Most people don't think of it this way, but the status or social approval that can come from behavior typically thought of as 'virtuous' has utility too. It might be less versatile and straightforward than, "money money money, " but some people still crave it.
| Polycell wrote: |
| ikillchicken wrote: | | I still believe that there's something to be said for treating your customers right and selling a product at a fair price. |
What's a "fair price"? Value is entirely subjective and several tens of thousands demonstrated that they felt the money was worth less to them than the box set and whatever non-"right" treatment they got. Every trade/purchase(that is, trading money/fiduciary media for goods or services) is made because both parties feel they'll be better off than if they didn't go through with it. |
I wonder if things like this Fate/Zero set are Veblen Goods. It's hard to tell from a distance through language and cultural barriers, but I could imagine that things like this are part of status competition within the otaku subculture. They might be playing the allure of something being a 'premium item' too. For some people, the goods themselves aren't the only part of the package with value.
| Polycell wrote: |
| ikillchicken wrote: | Then again, I'm just a filthy, free market hating socialist. |
You're making economic arguments with zero understanding of the subject. That's not a matter of politics. |
I'm a not a socialist (totally was in high school and freshman year of college though... I was a communist before that), but I don't like the term, "free markets," because I think it misses or distracts from the features of markets that can make them effective and because the term seems to have become marketing for really daft policies.
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Mikeski
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:09 am
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| V1046-R wrote: | | What it sounds like people are describing is a pricing bubble. We all know what happens to those bubbles. The moment someone comes up with a better idea that is adopeted by consumers or other economic shifts occur, all the old bubbles burst & businesses crumble. |
"Bubbles" are an investment thing, not an end-product thing. There's bubbles in the stock market, or real estate, or gold. There's no bubbles in delivery pizza or designer shirts (or anime, unless you think Japanese otaku are buying up Fate/Zero sets to resell for a profit in a few years).
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14795
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:27 am
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| LordByron227 wrote: | |
Sadly, I F/T college student with a P/T job can't really justify this purchase. Maybe if I was born earlier, and I would have graduated by now. But who knows, maybe even then, I can't justify dropping 740 on a 26 episode series. Maybe you have to be a true Nasu fan to like this stuff. I mean I played F/SN and Fate/Extra on the PSP, but I guess I never felt the addiction hit me. |
And gamers complain about DLCs.
| LordByron227 wrote: | |
Anyways, good for Aniplex for their nice return...(although do we know their production costs for this series though.) |
Well, the most expensive anime series was Ghost in the Shell: SAC, and that was just $10 million.
| V1046-R wrote: | |
All this business discussion on selling anime is a rather curious thing to me though, because my American thoughts on entrepreneurship is you get as many customer as you possible can by making a product most people can afford. That is how you build a marginal business into an empire... |
And then, there's Apple.
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Mikeski
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:29 am
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| ikillchicken wrote: | | Well, I for one am still of the mind that "make as much money as you possibly can" should not be the be all, end all rule for business. |
And any businessman who thinks that way is probably not selling anime. Anyone need an iSomething?
| ikillchicken wrote: | | I still believe that there's something to be said for treating your customers right and selling a product at a fair price. |
Seems to me that having the consumer foot 100% of the bill for a thing's production is the most "fair" pricing imaginable. (Unlike, say, the USAan method of entertainment production, where everyone who drinks a coke or pays taxes in a metropolitan area pays millionaires to play professional football... but that method produces mass-appeal stuff so that the advertisers get their eyeballs. Lots of copycat police procedurals on broadcast and "watch my small business air its dirty laundry" on cable, not so much with the Madoka Magica or Fate/Zero every season, just a Firefly every couple of years. (Yes, IMHO.))
Unless we're going to find some way to predict sales volumes ahead of time, so Fate/Zero and K-On can sell for $100 a season and Princess Jellyfish for $3000, this is the "fair" way... the anime fans pay for it all, and the blockbusters help fund the niche shows.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:40 am
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| ShanaFan852 wrote: | | People like me who bought this are acting like elitists towards those who didn't feel it's worth the money? Where did that come from? |
Given how you guys have been up in everybody's face, waving the fact that you can buy this stuff, AND have been constantly acting snobbish to anyone who thinks the release is over-priced, I'd say you are.
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