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NEWS: ADV Files 3rd-Party Claim in Funimation's Lawsuit


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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:32 pm Reply with quote
In my criticism of Funimation I've generally kept out of the realm of leaning into which company consistently produces a higher quality product. This isn't about who's better or not, and feel no need to fault Funimation for their specific level of quality. But I may have weighed in on it in the past.

So let me posit one hypothetical situation: Suppose Funimation were to simply go *poof*, inexplicably erased from existence (no one dying of course though). After a bit of confusion and after the dust settles, just think of the substantial chasm of opportunity that would result. You still have this deluge of titles crossing the pacific but new companies popping up and existing ones feeling less of the burden of the former monolith. Would the anime industry be better or worse? Well I've already heard more R1 companies is better, in Funi's absence more would pop up.
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:

people anime is niche no matter how much you want it to be mainstream or want your parents/friends to accept you for watching it is still a niche product.


Amen!
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3187
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:08 am Reply with quote
Crazy stuff. Haven't bought a FUNimation or Sentai title in ages as they don't license very many things I'm interested in. Our market is kinda dead anyway (especially for collectors like myself) Been buying most of my shows in Japanese yen the for the past two years or so. Just figured I'd go right to the source to get my favorites. Subtitled or not.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:10 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Shitty dubs


Oh, you're just another stuck-up weeaboo, I nearly thought you made have had an opinion that mattered.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:13 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:
Shitty dubs


Oh, you're just another stuck-up weeaboo, I nearly thought you made have had an opinion that mattered.


Yes, anyone who doesn't share your opinions is obviously a "weeaboo". Rolling Eyes
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:24 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
angelmcazares wrote:
I support companies like Aniplex USA because they want to charge more for anime to sustain the industry.


I'm not sure how charging a premium for niche shows which will not go into the pockets of the animators themselves is sustaining the industry.


Could you explain that to me? I am confused here.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15348
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:30 am Reply with quote
angel:
Quote:
Could you explain that to me? I am confused here.


The $900 you paid for the Garden of Sinners LE will not save any of the animators from near-poverty, as Aniplex will just pocket the money. That is the current state of the Japanese anime industry at large. It's the equivalent of buying Nikes for $300, even though you know the money will just be funding bigger sweatshops, and even though you know the shoes cannot cost more than $50-$100 max to produce.
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:35 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
In my criticism of Funimation I've generally kept out of the realm of leaning into which company consistently produces a higher quality product. This isn't about who's better or not, and feel no need to fault Funimation for their specific level of quality. But I may have weighed in on it in the past.

So let me posit one hypothetical situation: Suppose Funimation were to simply go *poof*, inexplicably erased from existence (no one dying of course though). After a bit of confusion and after the dust settles, just think of the substantial chasm of opportunity that would result. You still have this deluge of titles crossing the pacific but new companies popping up and existing ones feeling less of the burden of the former monolith. Would the anime industry be better or worse? Well I've already heard more R1 companies is better, in Funi's absence more would pop up.


You make it sound as if creating an anime distributor company can be done in two or three days. If FUNi goes under (like you wish), I will create my own company. It will be called Chanocmation. My motto would be: "no dumb boobie comedies, just great stuff"
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1232
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:05 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I disagree. I think their high prices are hurting them. They still got overstock on a lot of titles. In fact, as I've said before, I think they're even underperforming in Japan, too, or they wouldn't be charging their prices for us. Hell, you're already seeing JP companies sell budget anime DVDs in Japan, even for Sket Dance, which actually does seem to have a following. The old model is no longer working.
It's a good con which will fall apart soon enough.
They aren't hurting them. If anything, nothing is happening. They're still the distributor to most of the best-selling anime of the 2000's (They've had 32 anime sell at least 10,000 copies per volume on average, more than double second place Geneon. Link). Check this thread, if it's distributed by Aniplex, it's most likely doing well.
http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?p=1972139

As for cheap re-releases, here's the real kicker, most of those bomb hard in sales. There have been tons of Emotion the Best releases this year, and I've seen only ONE make it at all on the weekly Oricon charts, and it did about 1000 or so copies. Anyone following Japanese sales a lot can tell you cheap re-releases usually bomb, and it's a wonder why they keep doing them if at times less than 200 people are buying them.

As for why they charge similar prices here, they know they can make money off of us (Remember this thing that sold out from nearly 2 months of pre-order?). I wonder how rich they got off Madoka. They knew from the start this release strategy would do well. The Madoka LE's had been in the Rightstuf best-seller list since they were solicited, and it took until a few weeks ago for the first and second LE to completely fall out of the old system (The new one goes farther).
Quote:
Maybe because they want non-moe and ecchi titles which would justify supporting the industry?
Yes, but these people refuse to support their non-moe shows, mainly even their all-time favorites. "Torrent Trigun or buy Trigun?" If asked that, they'd go with torrenting as even if they were paid to buy Trigun, they still wouldn't do it. I know plenty of these kind of people.
Quote:
You should read the Twitter posts about how sales went up after Toonami aired Casshern '08. People do watch and buy. It's just a shitty economy, so they can't watch and buy everything. So if it looks like crap, of course they're not going to blow money on it.
I read them yes as I'm on Twitter every day, especially during Toonami Saturday where my timeline is flooded with Tweets. I even posted myself about the increase in sales.

The issue for Casshern Sins was before it aired on Toonami, it was obscure. Lots of people had no idea it even existed. Look at this before and after.
http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=Casshern%20Sins&geo=US&cmpt=q
Let's also put Deadman Wonderland in there too.
http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=Deadman%20Wonderland&geo=US&cmpt=q

Sales went up as more people became aware of the show. Your average Toonami fan did not know it even came out here years ago.

As for people wanting to watch and buy, the people I'm referring to again you could pay them to buy anime, and they still wouldn't do it. I know just far too many people like this, and many of these people have laughed at me for buying anime. "BUYING ANIME? LOLOLOL" People who are willing to buy anime along with buyers are becoming a rare breed.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:08 am Reply with quote
Oh boo-hoo, ADV, you didn't properly read the contract with Sojitz and you paid for it in blood. No sympathy at all, I'd back out of the deal if you sat on a slew of shows I had bought for you.
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Prede



Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:54 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
After a bit of confusion and after the dust settles, just think of the substantial chasm of opportunity that would result. You still have this deluge of titles crossing the pacific but new companies popping up and existing ones feeling less of the burden of the former monolith. Would the anime industry be better or worse? Well I've already heard more R1 companies is better, in Funi's absence more would pop up.


As much as I hate Funimation for what they're doing here with this lawsuit, I don't wish them out of business (although it would be a bit of cosmic justice seeing what they're trying to do to Sentai ). And just because in your hypothetical situation where there antitrust lawsuit makes Funimation disappear, it does not mean that new companies would spawn overnight. Hell they might never spawn! These things take a long time to develop, and a lot of money to get off the ground. Who wants to invest in anything in this economy, let alone a dwindling industry where the biggest player just magically disappeared. Sure without Funimation there would be a giant vacuum. But without CPM and Geneon there was a vacuum (I admit a smaller one) and it took years for other players to get into the game, and they don't even come close to filling the void Geneon and CPM left. And who has come up to the plate to replace Bandai since their graceful exit?

I remember John O'Donnell of CPM on some podcast once saying when he tried to start his company in the late 80's no one really wanted to invest in anime, and that was during a good economy! Imagine now in this crappy economy. In 1990 he finally gave up trying to find investors, and took a mortgage out against his house to start the company (if i remember correctly).

So OK maybe (big maybe) without Funimation there it leaves room for a few more companies to take the place. But I don't see them spawning over night, nor ever being able to fill the funi void you created in your hypothetical suggestion. Yes more companies are good for the entire market, and yes anti-trust laws are good. But without Funimation there would be less companies, at least at first. And no guarantee any others would spawn and take it's place.

GATSU wrote:
.

doctor:
Quote:
If you wish for a company's death simply because you find its business practices inconvenient to you, YOU ARE BEING A JERK, no way around it.


Well, if they're corporate scumbags out to sabotage a company built up from the ground-as was the case with Sojitz-then good riddance.



Yes Evil Zaibatsu scum is evil scum. We could do with less companies that invest in companies and then destroy them from the inside in order to make a quick buck or two. I hate to see people lose their jobs though. But in Sojitz case I might make an exception. At the very least less people like Mizushima, Hada, and Ueda having important jobs in companies like this the better . Wink

But seriously though I would like to see this end in with both Funimation and Sentai where they are right now. No one paying anyone anything. Just having the case dismissed or something would be great. Razz
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:39 am Reply with quote
Shana:
Quote:
They're still the distributor to most of the best-selling anime of the 2000's (They've had 32 anime sell at least 10,000 copies per volume on average, more than double second place Geneon. Link).


That was the 2000s. The economy's changed a lot since then.

Quote:
As for cheap re-releases, here's the real kicker, most of those bomb hard in sales. There have been tons of Emotion the Best releases this year, and I've seen only ONE make it at all on the weekly Oricon charts, and it did about 1000 or so copies.


But the fact that there are so many obviously indicates that the market share is declining.

Quote:
and it's a wonder why they keep doing them if at times less than 200 people are buying them.


Quote:
As for why they charge similar prices here, they know they can make money off of us (Remember this thing that sold out from nearly 2 months of pre-order?).


Perhaps, but it was a limited quantity, so it's not really indicative of a hit. If they had excess copies, I'd imagine GoS would be doing worse here.

Quote:
I wonder how rich they got off Madoka.


Evidently not very rich at all, as there are still plenty of R1 copies of Madoka still available.

Quote:
"Torrent Trigun or buy Trigun?" If asked that, they'd go with torrenting as even if they were paid to buy Trigun, they still wouldn't do it. I know plenty of these kind of people.


Well, there's always going to be those types of people. That's why JP companies need to stop being so greedy about licensing costs. 'Cus otherwise, they'll just encourage more people to torrent for free.

Conan:
Quote:
Oh boo-hoo, ADV, you didn't properly read the contract with Sojitz and you paid for it in blood.


Actually, they did read the contract. It's Sojitz which refused to honor it, and tried to price-gouge them.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3187
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:03 am Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
As for why they charge similar prices here, they know they can make money off of us (Remember this thing that sold out from nearly 2 months of pre-order?). I wonder how rich they got off Madoka. They knew from the start this release strategy would do well. The Madoka LE's had been in the Rightstuf best-seller list since they were solicited, and it took until a few weeks ago for the first and second LE to completely fall out of the old system (The new one goes farther).


Actually the people at Aniplex of America were shocked when the Rakkyo box sold out here. I sat down and talked with Henry Goto about it last year. Not even he expected it to sell that many. He asked me how to make money and I told him to keep aiming at that hardcore market. That's the best way to attain the most profit for niche stuffs.
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E-Master



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:10 am Reply with quote
This is one Lawsuit, I hope comes out alright for Funimation itself, but that's asking for too much. Considering I do buy a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays from their catagories, which makes me a fan of the company if that's a crime to say out loud.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4097
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:45 am Reply with quote
The funniest thing I see here are people confusing Sentai and Funimation.

The one with the same casts: Sentai.
The one with severe localization issues: Sentai. {Loups-Garou, Guin Saga and others must not exist for some people}
The one with the boobs: Sentai {Damn it, wait. They don't have those kind of shows... Except they do.}
The one with actions shows: Yadaa, yadda, yadda mindless fan dithering. It's anime, it's mostly action and boobs.

Anyway, most of my collection is either Funimation {complete sets at great prices} or ADV {remaindered bargains galore}; Sentai pisses me off with those spindle packs of theirs but I have a couple. To be honest, I have more recent Media Blaster titles than Sentai. So if Sentai goes down, the only thing I'll miss is Jessica Boone on their dubs, infrequently as she appears. Maybe Hillary Haag as well but whatever, it's not as if she has a range.

If Funimation goes down, Sentai goes down as well. Sure, Sentai's trying to keep their dub casts as simple as possible but without Funimation keeping work around for their anchors, I don't see Sentai's "second stringers" keeping a dub afloat. And if they want to go backward to the "hardcore collector" market {I don't have to explain why I put that in quotes, right?} then they would lose whatever exposure they have now and they'd hit the point where every title has to be a production rather than a product.

There are no winners here, only losers. But we all knew that already, right?
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