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NEWS: New Survey: Reactions to Geneon

Easy it is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Your hacking to get around Region Protection. If the Protection is Set on Zero by default your not getting around it and using the player as it was intended

So, It may not be illegal to buy the R2 DVD

I don't believe this is true. You can't charge a person buying a personal supply of drugs, for example, with "distribution", merely with "possession", and if they have enough, "possession with the intent to distribute". I'd actually like to see a drug dealer defend himself by saying that he offered an ala carte plate of drugs, and that he was not actually distributing anything, as his cutomers were merely "assigning themselves" his product.

Thanks for the clairification Keonyn. I still don't get what he's on about, "anime industry v DVD industry".

I have several friends who work in the industry in Japan and the studios in Japan are suffering, because while their shows may have good ratings no one's buying DVDs so they're losing a ton of money. It's pretty dire, some people project that in a few years there won't be very much anime produced in Japan. So to all you bootleggers out there. I hope it was worth it. You helped kill an industry.

The only point I was making was that independent of the actual ability to prove anything that, yes, it is illegal in the US to merely download copyrighted material without authorization. If it rose to the level of a criminal offense (which requires financial thresholds), then yes, federal charges would allege both copying and distributing. That's just how they hedge their bets to ensure convictions.

If they did that then they shouldn't get any convictions, because there is no distribution going on.

I remember a time when nobody bought anime DVDs, because there were no such thing. It tended to work out.

Per minute, anime is always at least more expensive than US shows, usually twice as expensive. How can they hope to compete?

Generally speaking federal prosecutors get @ a 95% conviction rate, and about 98% of those are from guilty pleas, precisely because of such tactics.

Yes it's true anime is probably the most expensive genre of entertainment that is available on DVD. But if you really think about it there's no need to compete at all. Fans of shows like Lost and Family Guy aren't excluded from being customers of anime DVDs and anime fans are already customers of anime DVDs.

Plus it goes without saying why anime is so much more expensive: Licensing alone is extremely costly not to mention also additional production involved to adapt the program for English speaking consumers.

It's industry BS to even insunuate that people who download anime are people would would be buying DVDs if they couldn't DL fansubs.

Plus it goes without saying why anime is so much more expensive: Licensing alone is extremely costly not to mention also additional production involved to adapt the program for English speaking consumers.

Allow me to add a little spice to this debate. A story about a bit torrent hero on the run

So my guess is this case will go all the way to the EU supreme court, which from estimates I've heard, could take upwards of five years from now to reach a final verdict.

Already thirteen members of their leading political party in office have made a public statement that they support legalizing downloads.

Yes, but if the European Court of Justice (there is no "supreme" court in Europe - unless we've been absorbed into the USA and nobody bothered to tell me) decides against them, it will become European law and that will apply across the European Union - including Sweden - whether Swedish legislators like it or not.

Without knowing how many Swedish MPs take the opposite view, that's not very useful information. Besides which, if they support legalising downloads, said downloads can't currently be legal and the outcome of the trial should be a foregone conclusion.

CCSYueh wrote:

Yadda, yadda...condescending tone...I paid so much money...blah blah blah...I've watched anime longer than you therefore I am better...depressing images and tone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is difficult to consider your opinions/argument when the entire structure of your response takes the tone of "the almighty" teaching an ignorant child.

Personally, I'd say a small portion of the blame lies with fan support...but that portion is very small. I don't really like talking about fansubs because, frankly, I download them, and that isn't going to change. I watch them and and then purchase the R1 DVDs if I like the show. Is it legal? As far as I know...nope, but it's how I watch/purchase anime.

PS: Whoever compared anime to the American music/movie industry...umm, OK.

I mean how you can buy a season box set of an American original series for much less than an anime of the same running time. For example, Lost season 3: $39, runtime 991 minutes (24 eps, 40 minutes each). Family Guy Season 4: $48, runtime 606 minutes. Full Metal Alchemist $77, runtime 700 minutes (51 eps, 20 minutes each). Naruto vol 5 box set $25, runtime 325 (14 eps, 20 minutes each).

Per minute, anime is always at least more expensive than US shows, usually twice as expensive. How can they hope to compete?

They aren't suffering a bit from people who download anime for free. They might be considered to be suffering for people who don't buy their DVDs, who would otherwise, but the two groups aren't one and the same. It's industry BS to even insunuate that people who download anime are people would would be buying DVDs if they couldn't DL fansubs.

That's funny because Dattebayo has what like 36,3180 downloads per episode? Much more than I see from say "Black Lagoon" Torrents, or Kanon torrents.. much more. So going by your logic or fan subers shut down Geneon, (when really you have no idea why they shut down you just want to blame somebody) when their anime is not being downloaded as much as say these others. And sure you can say "Well little kids are bought X" but in all actuality you are tyign to find some way to verify your already shaky logic.

2. You don't need to educate me about manga,

I also know what it feels like to build a collection and how badly you want to complete it, I who have collected American comics since I was 10, who always saved my money to buy two issues of the comic one to read and then another to put in a plactic sleeve.

Once again I say to you, I don't download what is licenced but you better believe that if Spider man all of a sudden went Japanese and there were no more American comics made of him, I would download those in an instant, and can you say you would not do the same with the shows left unfinished by Geneon?

Fan subbing has it's place now, sure you can download Black blood borhters from ADV, BUT, you can only play those on WMP, what about those with linux, and Macs? They are made to suffer where as fan subbers encode their anime in such a way it will play on Zoom, VCLAN, Quicktime, WPM, ect. When I watch my anime I want to watch it the way I want to watch it, why should it be regulated as to where I can watch it and what device I can watch it on?

Also fansubbers give us anime that has not been or will not be licenced, can you say if you say a Japanese trailer of Black Lagoon you would not want to download it if you knew it was never going to get licenced? Can you honestly say that?

I say the same thing to you, you lost "your" shows, "your" company failed so you all go on this glorified witch hunt for fansubbers and downloaders when you don't know why they failed in the first place.
You really do remind me of the old witch hunters accusing people of things that they may not have had a part in but because you want some one to blame you just toss it at the nearest group you feel like hating.

Did you not say pretty much the same thing to me with Onegai Teacher? How there are not enough strong women character anime being licenced and how shows like Onegai were insipid? Pot calling kettle black much?

Bottom line (and then I wash my hands of your bigoted way of going after people who you don't know if they had anything to do with why Geneon failed. Or that don't believe the same thing you do.)

You don't know why Geneon failed so stop pretending that you do.
Most of the people here have said they download and then buy so what is wrong with that? I mean honestly if I download a series and then go out and buy it how does that make me a bad person? Can you honestly answer that?
You are no better of a person than me, you have different moral views but that does not make you better or more knowledgeable, and I wish you damn "downloader hunters" would stop acting as such.
Have a good day, a good life, and enjoy your anime your way and I will enjoy mine my way. Live and let live, what is so wrong with that?
Joshua-Sensei
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