Forum

To ShadowTrader: Aye, I'm also curious how this bypassed the exclusivity period issue. I'm glad to see companies make a move to at least try out online distribution.

These articles also gave me a bigger drive to want to finalize and propose my Service. It's obvious now that companies are capable of and interested in trying such things. Guess I need to stop procrastinating and get something potentially useful done. Sad

I'd still like to know, from a fansubbers point of view, whether or not the integrated fansub-community would be something acceptable to fansubbers.

ShadowTrader wrote:

Shit now that I think about it, I should sue for intellectual property theft. Bastards...

Ha ha. Everyone who posted on this topic needs to get together, grab their lawyers, and strike! Wink

Did you read the interview with CR's founder? It looks like the industry is finally taking some actions into the direction I suggested and partnering with third party distributors.
Here's a quote I liked:

"In the future, in partnership with the Japanese companies, have you considered contracting fansubbers to subtitle the legal content you plan on hosting on the site through a legitimate agreement sanctioned by the Japanese companies?

This is a really interesting topic that I can't talk about much because it's uncertain, but we've been reaching out to embrace fansubbers, and we see them as fans who are just hoping to promote their work, but the problem is there's no structure to help them cooperate with the content providers. We think we're close to something, but what we're doing right now is trying to secure all the rights needed to allow the fansubbers to create their works. There's going to be some interesting things coming up, and we need feedback from fansub groups on the different ways we can reward them, whether it be monetary or otherwise. "

Nope. Haven't read that article. Would you be able to provide a link? I had no luck finding it on the site.

I'm really curious to see if their "working with fansubbers" thing is anything like what I've posted here.

animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2008-03-25/vu-nguyen

It was just an interview but it gives some hints that least something is happening.

Thank you kindly.

Aye, it gave some hints alright Sadly nothing very solid. Seems that it didn't change their reputation too much either. I have a good bit to say about this topic, but since I've been quite busy lately... I think I'll take a que from the interview and sum it all up with...

"I can't comment on this." Wink

So the point the topic creator trying to make is more cheaper + more titles for the Anime DVD.

Actually Anime DVD sold in deferent price LEGALLY in deferent country, they also divide the DVD into CD that can fit 2 episode of 350 Mb file each. I'm sure the legal price of 1 Anime CD in Indonesia are around Rp.27.000 [ around 3 usd ] with 2 episodes inside it. It is not much deferent than in Philippine [ based on information from my Philippina friend ]. If it is very expensive in your country then there are many reasons for it such as there are less DVD piracy in your country or your country economy are suited for that price even not suited for you.

Asian Guy wrote:

So the point the topic creator trying to make is more cheaper + more titles for the Anime DVD.

I'm sorry, but the point is not to make DVDs cheaper, but to make (invent, whatever) an effective model to sell Anime on the internet, without DVD or CD.

Quote:

Actually Anime DVD sold in deferent price LEGALLY in deferent country, they also divide the DVD into CD that can fit 2 episode of 350 Mb file each. I'm sure the legal price of 1 Anime CD in Indonesia are around Rp.27.000 [ around 3 usd ] with 2 episodes inside it. It is not much deferent than in Philippine [ based on information from my Philippina friend ]. If it is very expensive in your country then there are many reasons for it such as there are less DVD piracy in your country or your country economy are suited for that price even not suited for you.

I believe this to be similar with the PC game-situation in Russia. There, bootlegs are sold in normal stores, for far less money than in Europe. This is tolerated by the industry, but it is not legal.
2 episodes for 3$ - I think for such a price, it has to be a bootleg.

To both Asian Guy & Labbes: The intention of the topic is not to make DVD's cheaper or to simply sell Anime on the internet without a need for DVD's.

The intention was to try to solve some of the issues facing the industry by providing a more modern and accessible distribution service that could accomodate the needs of a greater variety of consumers.

Consumers would have the option to stream for free, purchase as an online "soft-copy" form, or even buy a DVD.

[quote="Labbes"]

Asian Guy wrote:

Quote:

Actually Anime DVD sold in deferent price LEGALLY in deferent country, they also divide the DVD into CD that can fit 2 episode of 350 Mb file each. I'm sure the legal price of 1 Anime CD in Indonesia are around Rp.27.000 [ around 3 usd ] with 2 episodes inside it. It is not much deferent than in Philippine [ based on information from my Philippina friend ]. If it is very expensive in your country then there are many reasons for it such as there are less DVD piracy in your country or your country economy are suited for that price even not suited for you.

I believe this to be similar with the PC game-situation in Russia. There, bootlegs are sold in normal stores, for far less money than in Europe. This is tolerated by the industry, but it is not legal.
2 episodes for 3$ - I think for such a price, it has to be a bootleg.

You may found this shocking but it is legal and not bootleg, the bootleg one are far more cheaper than that.

Master Lee wrote:

To both Asian Guy & Labbes: The intention of the topic is not to make DVD's cheaper or to simply sell Anime on the internet without a need for DVD's.

The intention was to try to solve some of the issues facing the industry by providing a more modern and accessible distribution service that could accomodate the needs of a greater variety of consumers.

Consumers would have the option to stream for free, purchase as an online "soft-copy" form, or even buy a DVD.

Downloable Anime will be more expensive and not accessible to most peoples since most peoples still have no internet connection and even if they have it the speed are mostly under average. The best solution is to provide cheap DVD or CD of Anime widely around the world.

More modern solution? just wait for 100 more years when anyone can access the internet or there will be less poor peoples in the world.

To Asian Guy: My last posting was a bit rushed and didn't really convey what I was trying to say propoerly. I apologize.

Aye, you are correct that not everyone has internet access and those that do aren't necessarily using high speed connections.

I support your idea of having cheap DVD's available around the world. That would definitely be of help to those with little to no internet access.

Unforunately, widely available and cheap DVD's would not address many of the problems created by the people who do have internet access and / or high speed connections. It is this group of people that the anime studios are having trouble profiting from. This group doesn't always see the need to find and purchase a DVD when they can simply download it for free off of a peer-to-peer service.

My proposal was primarily aimed at turning these lost profits into something profitable for the studios, while also being beneficial to the consumers.

In the end what I'm trying to say is that, anime studios are already able to use TV broadcasts and DVD's to profit off of people that have no internet. My proposal was for a way to profit off of the consumers who do have internet access.

(Don't get me wrong though, I would love to see cheaper DVD's widely available around the world.)

Asian Guy wrote:

Labbes wrote:

I believe this to be similar with the PC game-situation in Russia. There, bootlegs are sold in normal stores, for far less money than in Europe. This is tolerated by the industry, but it is not legal.
2 episodes for 3$ - I think for such a price, it has to be a bootleg.

You may found this shocking but it is legal and not bootleg, the bootleg one are far more cheaper than that.

If by buying it you are not supporting the Japanese companies and/or the licensors in your region, then they are bootlegs whether they are legal or not to be sold where you live.

Asian Guy wrote:

Downloable Anime will be more expensive and not accessible to most peoples since most peoples still have no internet connection and even if they have it the speed are mostly under average. The best solution is to provide cheap DVD or CD of Anime widely around the world.

More modern solution? just wait for 100 more years when anyone can access the internet or there will be less poor peoples in the world.

You can't tackle on the whole world right away. Initially you'll have to go for fans that can't/will not pay for anime in the US and other western/wealthy nations where broadband internet has reached a majority of their citizens. This would unfortunately leave the poorer countries in the dust until this future you say will happen 100 years from now, which I doubt could truly ever happen.

Master Lee wrote:

To Asian Guy: My last posting was a bit rushed and didn't really convey what I was trying to say propoerly. I apologize.

Aye, you are correct that not everyone has internet access and those that do aren't necessarily using high speed connections.

I support your idea of having cheap DVD's available around the world. That would definitely be of help to those with little to no internet access.

Unforunately, widely available and cheap DVD's would not address many of the problems created by the people who do have internet access and / or high speed connections. It is this group of people that the anime studios are having trouble profiting from. This group doesn't always see the need to find and purchase a DVD when they can simply download it for free off of a peer-to-peer service.

(Don't get me wrong though, I would love to see cheaper DVD's widely available around the world.)

That was why Japanese government releasing official warning to the U.S goverment to stop illegal Anime download on net within the American juridiction territory. It is one of the way to stop the Anime piracy in the net.

Quote:

My proposal was primarily aimed at turning these lost profits into something profitable for the studios, while also being beneficial to the consumers.

In the end what I'm trying to say is that, anime studios are already able to use TV broadcasts and DVD's to profit off of people that have no internet. My proposal was for a way to profit off of the consumers who do have internet access.

Even this world ended, piracy will never gone because since long ago thief already existed. The only way to fight piracy is to press it by making peoples have self awareness. Saying Anime thief as Anime loser widely will be one of the best way, because the Anime fan who really love Anime but have been downloading anime all this time will surely stop their action and try to hold into their title as Anime fan or Anime lover.

By the way, it seems you are trying to point out the best solution to do is by making Anime available for download, it is obvious to me.

fokkusuhaundo wrote:

If by buying it you are not supporting the Japanese companies and/or the licensors in your region, then they are bootlegs whether they are legal or not to be sold where you live.

Why it is not supporting the Anime company for buying a LEGAL Anime CD? I think you still not believe that Anime CD price in Indonesia with 2 episode in each CD are just around 3 usd, but only for few Anime available for purchase [ 4 - 9 ] titles so maybe you think all Anime are avilable for purchase for that price in Indonesia or other Asian countries that have cheap Anime CD.

Greetins!
The parent company of Geneon, and many of the other production studios is a Japanese conglomerate that holds sway over a vast portion of the Japanese international and domestic distribution (in Japan) media markets. Because Geneon 'went under' doesn't mean beans. You see if you stop and look at it from a Japanese business tactics sense, you realize that what will happen is that the folks that are one day working for Geneon are found later working in other studios or picked up in a new formation... it is amoebic in nature. They cut distribution to international markets for a bit due to "Piracy", maybe even a few years, they make up for it later by a new media product or new media players and tech. Then some time later 're-introduce' to the international market... They still make BILLIONS and those that work hard and love the media will pay their hard earned dollars to the Corporation. Always have, always will...
However, there is a model that may be taking form right here in the United States... South Park Studios, has set up a model where ALL the South Park episodes will be made available ONLINE. The new episodes will be shown on TV, made available for viewing until the next release, then embargoed (put away for a bit) and then added to the video archive online. You should read Trey Parkers letter on that site... it is more than interesting.
Fan Subbing will continue, and the Japanese market whether or not it allows new titles out of country for international distribution, will still allow international fans the opportunity to file share the episodes and series... unless we wind up with some kind of 'net nazis - or - net police state'!... which could happen under the guise of a number of excuses..(ahem, need I name one).
We all agree I am sure that Japan has created a world-wide phenomenon with anime and manga from the Japanese studios, it is an almost unique art to Japan. They have made a study of these arts and they are #@&% good at it!
But the problem goes beyond Japanese borders. It is a matter of creativity being swallowed up by corporate structures and investor boards.
I am still an advocate of independent studios to build 'guilds' and networks for distribution to the fans that will support independent studios and artists, and that will receive work of quality and at a reasonable price, and not find the work STILL costing an arm and a leg 5 or 10 years down the line when newer works are trying to break into the market and doing the same thing, and after the title has made hundreds of millions of dollars if not a billion dollars already!
There is a great deal of greed on the part of the networks of distribution from Japan, and that handle that product here in the States. All I can call it is greed. The cost should be going down, not up.
But consumers are now voting with their wallets, the American market isn't drying up because of fan-subbing... we are just tired of paying through the nose for works that are NOT quality, are totally mysogonistic, and that are repeats of the same flaky stories over and over again... very few of the abundance of anime recently released is really of the quality I am willing to pay $26.00 a disk for! But I think greed has determined that if they make it "we will buy it!", and they are soon to find out that if you lose the attention you lose the market. Burn me once...
But I ramble... I could go on, but in closing, I think South Park Studios has made an offer to the public that will either be the model or the industry will possibly disappear for a while from the radar.
I personally think we need to let it die, it will rise again like a Phoenix... and hopefully this time it will rise from independents and not corporations, and we will all be the better for it.
Respectfully yours,
Manuel Colunga-Hernandez (tacodunort)
'silverspiderforge.com & sunfightercomix.com'

I'm a bit short on time at the moment so these responses won't be proof-read properly. I hope they are at least comprehensible to a minor degree.

To Asian Guy: The Japanese Government releasing an official warning to the U.S. Government to stop illegal downloading is a good move on their part. Unfortunately, it's going to be rather hard to enforce. If people want to pirate these products, they will find a way to, regardless of any form of restriction. As they say... "where there's a will, there's a way."

Promoting self-awareness and calling people who steal anime "anime losers" will only go so far. The internet often makes people feel as though their actions are anoymous and untraceable, so they are more willing to perform actions (like stealing) that they would hesitate to do in the physical world.

I agree with you that piracy will never be defeated.

Although, in the case of fansubbing... I don't even feel it's necessary to "defeat them", only find a way to make what they do legal and beneficial. (which I've attempt to do in the latest incarnation of my proposal)

Asian Guy wrote:

"By the way, it seems you are trying to point out the best solution to do is by making Anime available for download, it is obvious to me."

It doesn't even need to be available for download necessarily . There just needs to be a legal alternative for the people who are currently using illegal means.

To tacodunort:

tacodunort wrote:

"Because Geneon 'went under' doesn't mean beans."

Ha ha. I've been told that numerous times. Geneon going under wasn't my reason for doing this. I have no official opinion on whether or not the anime industry is actually in trouble. This proposal was simply designed under the assumption that it was in trouble... this way if it turns out to actually be in trouble... I at least attempted to prepare in advance.

tacodunort wrote:

"However, there is a model that may be taking form right here in the United States... South Park Studios, has set up a model where ALL the South Park episodes will be made available ONLINE. The new episodes will be shown on TV, made available for viewing until the next release, then embargoed (put away for a bit) and then added to the video archive online."

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It does sound like an interesting way to do it. I'll have to read up on that.

tacodunort wrote:

"I personally think we need to let it die, it will rise again like a Phoenix... and hopefully this time it will rise from independents and not corporations, and we will all be the better for it. "

If this were to occur, I think I'd be alright with it. My proposal was for a third-party run system focused on consumer management and product distribution. So in essence, it should be feasible regardless of whether it's corporations or independent groups providing the products.

To both Asian Guy & tacodunort: Thank you to both of you for posting on this topic. Almost forgot my manners in these last few posts. Embarassed

Asian Guy wrote:

fokkusuhaundo wrote:

If by buying it you are not supporting the Japanese companies and/or the licensors in your region, then they are bootlegs whether they are legal or not to be sold where you live.

Why it is not supporting the Anime company for buying a LEGAL Anime CD? I think you still not believe that Anime CD price in Indonesia with 2 episode in each CD are just around 3 usd, but only for few Anime available for purchase [ 4 - 9 ] titles so maybe you think all Anime are avilable for purchase for that price in Indonesia or other Asian countries that have cheap Anime CD.

How is ripping dvds onto cds and selling them supporting the anime companies when these are not sold officially anywhere else in the world? And like I said, just because it is legal to be sold where you live does not mean it cannot be bootleg: http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html#legalorigin
There are a lot of countries in the world that have a hard time adopting international copyright laws and their governments allow or do little to prohibit the sale of pirated goods.

Forum - View topic
The Proposal of Master Lee - A System For Anime Distribution

Cupid Parasite: Sweet & Spicy Darling Video Game Review

This Week in Anime - Are Some Manga Truly "Unadaptable"?

Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? Astrea Record Novel One Review

6 Interesting Things I Learned About Anime From the Legendary Producer Maruyama Masao Documentary

Sakamoto Days TV Anime Confirmed for January 2025 Starring Tomokazu Sugita

Fairy Princess Minky Momo Episodes 31-46 Anime Series Review

Ghost in The Shell Gets New TV Anime Series in 2026 by Science Saru

Dead Dead Demon's Dededede Destruction Part 2 Anime Film Review

TOHO to Acquire Anime Studio Science SARU as Its Subsidiary

Forum - View topicThe Proposal of Master Lee - A System For Anime Distribution

Forum

Forum - View topic
The Proposal of Master Lee - A System For Anime Distribution