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Responding to DClark in the original ADV topic:

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Or they just have too much office equipment and nowhere to put it. They could've either rented a storage space and paid someone to move it there, paid someone to haul it to the dump and get rid of it, or had an auction and sell the stuff. Two of the options would take money away from them while one put money in their pocket, so they went with the one that would get them some cash.

I don't see how this makes sense. They were able to find a use for all of their equipment in the past. Selling off things like this now indicates to me that they're really desperate. They're certainly not expanding their operations.

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When it gets dire enough that ADV asks for donations to help save them, that's when I'll start worrying (and I'll probably send them some money). That might actually be an innovative way to raise some cash in the short term; ADV could sell "Anime Futures" which would be redeemable for an ADV anime series a year or two down the line. They collect the money first, then use that money to aquire a series and create a complete deluxe box set for those people who pitched in. They would then sell the series normally (singles and box set/thinpack), getting revenue the normal way as well.

That might work, although if they did go bust and became unable to honour those commitments, the follow-on effect would destroy trust in the anime industry.

ADV needs a long-term focus - they should only license shows that will (or are almost certain to) generate a profit. And as many people have said elsewhere on ANN, the US market is oversaturated right now, which contributed at least in part to Geneon's demise.

Perhaps ADV could diversify into Western cartoons (Disney etc) the same way that Tokyopop is now releasing manga by US artists. In the end, though, that strategy is unlikely to work. The market is still being saturated, and median household income is unlikely to increase in the foreseeable future (IMO). Consumers are limited by their budgets more than anything else. I don't think too many people take out a loan to purchase anime or manga.

HyugaHinata wrote:

Perhaps ADV could diversify into Western cartoons (Disney etc) the same way that Tokyopop is now releasing manga by US artists.

ADV already did that several years ago, though it didn't go anywhere. One release (I believe it was called Lady Death or something like that) and then it quietly died. Right now, ADV looks to be cutting excess fat. They don't seem to be in a position to experiment and diversify at the moment.

On another note... you are aware of Tokyopop's situation, right? They aren't exactly a shining example of a healthy company right now. And their OEL stuff is taking a pretty big hit from it.

HitokiriShadow wrote:

HyugaHinata wrote:

Perhaps ADV could diversify into Western cartoons (Disney etc) the same way that Tokyopop is now releasing manga by US artists.

ADV already did that several years ago, though it didn't go anywhere. One release (I believe it was called Lady Death or something like that) and then it quietly died. Right now, ADV looks to be cutting excess fat. They don't seem to be in a position to experiment and diversify at the moment.

Mutineer's Moon! Laughing

HyugaHinata wrote:

Quote:

ADV could sell "Anime Futures" which would be redeemable for an ADV anime series a year or two down the line. They collect the money first, then use that money to aquire a series and create a complete deluxe box set for those people who pitched in. They would then sell the series normally (singles and box set/thinpack), getting revenue the normal way as well.

That might work, although if they did go bust and became unable to honour those commitments, the follow-on effect would destroy trust in the anime industry.

I think after the whole NTUSA-Piq-whoops fiasco, it will be quite mandatory to use an escrow account (ADV can even keep the interest) for this. Nothing saying one of the bigger local distributors couldn't just come out and say "pay us $100 and we will try to get you Title-Q" (as they would have more public trust than some random new company setup just to do this.)

AnimeCornerStore wrote:

Greboruri wrote:

I shouldn't have to worry about their business plan or if they've made a profit. If they sell it at a loss, whatever. The consumer didn't make that decision, the company did.

Anime Fans ultimately will decide the fate of the industry, not the companies that create or distribute the products. Anime fans have all the power, hold all the cards, and vote every day with their wallets either by buying or not buying, or when they only want to buy products and services that are unprofitable or impossible to deliver. All we can do is put our products and/or services out there and try to find a happy medium that will allow Anime fans to enjoy the genre while supporting a business model that is at least modestly profitable. Once enough Anime fans turn away for the businesses that support the industry (via downloading, waiting only for closeouts, taking up knitting, whatever) there will no longer be any industry. Anime Fans, as a collective, will make that decision.

Bob (aka Robert)

As the less vitriol version, it is closer to my take on this sub-topic. Market 100: producer imperative is for high prices and consumer imperative is for lower prices and/or higher value. Accord = sale. No accord means we both go on with our lives (or get whisked away in the middle of the night by our wayward parent.) Besides, if this were a cheap hobby, then think how many fewer people would know how to spell the word "niche."

Still, wish I had known about it sooner, as there did seem to be quite a few lots to be interested in doing some damage with (aka get slaughtered by local companies who could bid without fear of cross-country shipping.)

bglassbrook wrote:

Besides, if this were a cheap hobby, then think how many fewer people would know how to spell the word "niche."

Bandai Visual failed in large part because all the "major players" (Viz, Geneon, ADV, FUNi) in the anime industry have never wanted to think of anime fandom as a "niche", and thus they've marketed to it as "entertainment for everyone". When questioned as to why they don't do certain things they explain that they can't because they don't have the money because anime IS a niche, but the larger goal has always been to ignore those "niche" fans and sell to the pokemon buying kids. BV wanted to sell to the "niche" fans, but by then most of those people were gone or just buying direct if need be.

When ADV started they were selling a small money title to fanboys for a premium. (an OAV 30 mins per casette at like $20-30 per tape) Recently they've been trying to make a Hollywood Eva movie... a Hollywood Eva movie, WTF?!? (Yes, Eva is/was their cash cow, but it's Gainax's baby, and that is NOT your core market nor is it a reasonable project to throw money at) As for the money, they're shooting themselves in the foot on that one. I'll leave it to others to expand on "first hand" but I've spoken to many vendors who say the companies are killing them by undercutting them on cost at cons. Vendors don't even want to carry the stuff anymore in some cases because they can't move it after that.

HyugaHinata wrote:

Responding to DClark in the original ADV topic:

Quote:

Or they just have too much office equipment and nowhere to put it. They could've either rented a storage space and paid someone to move it there, paid someone to haul it to the dump and get rid of it, or had an auction and sell the stuff. Two of the options would take money away from them while one put money in their pocket, so they went with the one that would get them some cash.

I don't see how this makes sense. They were able to find a use for all of their equipment in the past. Selling off things like this now indicates to me that they're really desperate. They're certainly not expanding their operations..

But they didn't have a use for it at the moment.
It's simply not worth the costs of transporting and storing low value, large/bulky items.

To put things in perspective, say a chair cost them $100 dollars new (some of the ones in the auction look like the type i can get for £50-100 new in the UK), it's a couple of years old already, a bit battered and needing replacement within a year or two anyway.
Thus it's simply not worth them spending out say $10 to pay for it to be moved into storage, then a couple of dollars a month storage (you might find that after 6-12 months you've paid more than the cost of a new one, all to save an asset that is decreasing in value every day).

Same with large CRT's*, they've got next to no value now in many cases, and if they are older ones they may well have been due for replacement soon anyway (or may already have been replaced.

It all comes down to the point at which it's going to cost you more to keep something that isn't needed now, than it is to throw them away (if you can sell them for a few dollars even better).

It's even possible that ADV have cherry picked the best stuff from the closed offices to replace older stuff in their main offices, and they've taken this chance to dispose of some stuff that hasn't been in use for a while (the CRT monitors could have been sat unused for a while after being replaced with LCD's fort example**)

*I ended up hanging onto a pair of 17" CRT's in our loft, thinking they would be handy if my new monitor died - I dumped them when I realised the cost of a new larger LCD was only the price I'd paid for them when they were new (5 years before) - £120ish for a 20" widescreen LCD.

**Some companies I know of have pallets of working CRT's sat around, awaiting disposal after they have been replaced..

Shiroi Hane wrote:

To be fair, you can get the whole series now for less that the RRP of the outstanding volumes, and if you can then palm off the extras on someone who doesn't know any better (e.g. CEX, whose shelves were flooded with those Boulevard discs when they were going for a £5 a pack in booksale) then you gain even more.

I agree that it's a good deal, but not to those who have already purchased the singles, and to be frank, how many of them can be arsed? For me, I rent it so am not affected, but this is one of the reasons I do. I learned from others who have been stuffed like this in the past, and will only purchase a series when I know I can get the whole series from start to finish.

Mohawk52 wrote:

I agree that it's a good deal, but not to those who have already purchased the singles

How is it not a good deal for those who have already purchased the first few singles if they can buy the complete boxset for less than it would have cost to buy the remaining singles?

The ability to sell on the duplicate volumes is just icing on the cake.

Moomintroll wrote:

Mohawk52 wrote:

I agree that it's a good deal, but not to those who have already purchased the singles

How is it not a good deal for those who have already purchased the first few singles if they can buy the complete boxset for less than it would have cost to buy the remaining singles?

The ability to sell on the duplicate volumes is just icing on the cake.

True, but who would buy them?

Mohawk52 wrote:

Moomintroll wrote:

Mohawk52 wrote:

I agree that it's a good deal, but not to those who have already purchased the singles

How is it not a good deal for those who have already purchased the first few singles if they can buy the complete boxset for less than it would have cost to buy the remaining singles?

The ability to sell on the duplicate volumes is just icing on the cake.

True, but who would buy them?

Believe it or not, but there are some people who would prefer to buy the singles instead of the thinpaks, whether it be for the nicer cover art, the extras, or because they're nuts who like to take up more space on their shelves. If they can get them in good condition second hand, for a nice price, all the better.
Myself personally, I collect both singles and thinpaks, and I know this is stupid, but sometimes the difference comes down to which box art I like better, rather than price. For example, I bought the Ah! My Goddess singles box set, rather than the economy box set because the singles set had gorgeous box art, whereas the economy one did not. The difference in price between the two was quite a bit, too. The crazy things collectors will do.
I totally get the feeling of being ripped off when you've bought the first few singles, then the much cheaper thinpak comes out. I think in that case, since one already has the first singles, the best thing to do would be to scout out for a good sale on singles, and finish their collection that way. It might cost a bit more, but at least you don't have the problem of figuring out what to do with the duplicates. Duplicates in ones collection are a horrible thing.

Quark wrote:

I totally get the feeling of being ripped off when you've bought the first few singles, then the much cheaper thinpak comes out. I think in that case, since one already has the first singles, the best thing to do would be to scout out for a good sale on singles, and finish their collection that way. It might cost a bit more, but at least you don't have the problem of figuring out what to do with the duplicates. Duplicates in ones collection are a horrible thing.

The only way they can do that now is if they import it R1., unless of course ADV has done the same thing there In the US, then they are double stuffed.

Mohawk52 wrote:

Quark wrote:

I totally get the feeling of being ripped off when you've bought the first few singles, then the much cheaper thinpak comes out. I think in that case, since one already has the first singles, the best thing to do would be to scout out for a good sale on singles, and finish their collection that way. It might cost a bit more, but at least you don't have the problem of figuring out what to do with the duplicates. Duplicates in ones collection are a horrible thing.

The only way they can do that now is if they import it R1., unless of course ADV has done the same thing there In the US, then they are double stuffed.

They may very well be contractually obligated to release singles first for the US. I'd say it's likely, in fact.

This maybe a little pragmatic, but I would suggest that ADV cut its titles down to one genre. Stop looking for the next Bleach or Naruto, for universal appeal, but, instead, offer a genre specialization and release 3-4 titles/year. This specialization would benefit ADV and the industry in 2 key ways.

1)It would blaze the trail for other distributors and production companies to do the same for other genres, opening the door for an increase in smaller companies offering a wider variety of product. At the same time, it would minimize the size of ADV's operations and allow the company to grow organically within its specific market segment.

2)Without an excess of titles flooding the market, it will create a scarcity of R1 releases, which, like in VHS days of old, can command a higher rack-rate and higher profit margin. Its not that I want anime prices to go up, but I am in the paying minority, and I would rather pay 10 dollars more to keep titles coming, than pay a deflated low-margin rate.

I know that Bandaii Visual failed in a similar attempt earlier, but I think they OVER niched, their niche market. Profitability is directly linked to production. Therefore, if you are going to offer a niche product, as I am suggesting above, then you must also limit your production and distribution to cater to the size of your customer base. Bandai didn't do this very well. (I saw at least 10 copies of Demon Prince Enma at every Best Buy I visited in the Chicagoland area)

I also think that to a certain extent, Viz has been successful in a similar strategy by relying upon the Shonen Jump genre to push their sales.

All in all, I think the answer for ADV and the industry in general, is to focus. Make business decisions based upon a sound financial model, not hype generated by anime forums and lack-luster market research carried out mostly by inserting reply-card in R1 releases. Specialize and control one area of the market in a very controlled and focused way.--you don't see Volkswagen making pickup trucks, or McDonald's selling tacos.

melmoth wrote:

This maybe a little pragmatic, but I would suggest that ADV cut its titles down to one genre. Stop looking for the next Bleach or Naruto, for universal appeal, but, instead, offer a genre specialization and release 3-4 titles/year.

The problem with that is that genres rise and fall in popularity over the years and if you don't time jumping off one genre's wagon and onto the next correctly, you're out of business.

Quote:

you don't see Volkswagen making pickup trucks

Actually, they do make pickup trucks.

Excellent point. The R1 Physical Media market is a challenged market to begin with, and I would speculate is more vulnerable to competing media and i-net piracy than genre popularity. But, to your point, if there were to be a drop in sales/interest in a specific genre ADV (or whatever company) would decrease distribution based upon demand.

You may or may not remember when Orion was releasing as Streamline Pictures...Fist of the Northstar (movie) Vampire Hunter D, Lensman, they had a very small catalogue all from within similar genres. They didn't go under until they faced competition that went ahead and licensed everything under the sun....(Also Orion usually dealt with OVAs rather than series, and that contributed to their demise as well)

It was all that was available to us pepaws, but we bought ALL of it due to scarcity which kept Orion running for about 8 years. I think the answer is to adjust your business model to be more nimble and well equipped for market volitility. This is much easier to do when you are focused on a few different products than a whole portfolio.

I am not saying that this is THE ABSOLUTE GENIUS ANSWER, its just that in the past 2-3 years I've noticed how many poor titles that are out there; for every one or two series I buy, there are at least 4 or 5 from the same company that I don't. I see titles like Yugo, Area 88, Cromartie HS, and Kanon just sitting on shelves at retailers collecting dust. While I don't have anything against these titles, it seems as though they are over-produced for a market that just wasn't /isn't there.

When you control the market by only releasing a handful of titles, the buyers (like me) will be happy with what they can get. Its a pragmatic solution, but I would rather see SOME anime make it to R1 DVD than watching a majority of the companies fold and go back to the old days of searching for "tape swaps" on IRC.

Also: VW was a bad example, they DO make trucks! Sorry VW!

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