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The Mike Toole Show - Unfinished Business


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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 618
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Personally, I prefer to use cours because it's usually a reliable measure of episode count for most anime. For a real long-runner (like 100+ episodes), I count the way "Gintama" counted it's seasons: each "season" was whatever had aired the first week of April to the last week of March.

As for endings, I tend to like the more open-ended endings. I just don't like how those endings are often lumped in with "unfinished"/"sequel-bait" endings (not that there's anything wrong with those endings, it's just annoying). Of course there's value in the "no loose ends" type of endings, too.
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pachy_boy



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprised you made no mention of His and Her Circumstances, which I thought would've been a prime example.

The first time I watched this beautifully artsy series, I was very much let down by its conclusion, or rather lack of one, where it leaves things awkwardly hanging in the air. At the time, I didn't understand why they didn't try giving it its own special wrap-up (like the Fruits Basket anime). So I collected the manga to continue the story where the anime left off and--most ironically, I was let down all over again, albeit everything fell apart in a worse way. The rest of the Kare Kano story involved rape (automatic dealbreaker if between romantic interests), guns (felt very out of place), and a guy finding his future dream girlfriend in a newborn girl. After being alienated by the manga, I took another look at the anime, and discovered a whole new appreciation and perspective on it. Episode 24 was really the anime's ending, where Yukino more or less wraps things up with a "anything can happen in the future" speech, and it really felt like the story came thematically full circle. Episode 25 was a mere bonus side-story, and the dreadfully bleak Episode 26 that nearly turned me off was meant to be more of a lead-in for the manga, but one can easily ignore that episode. I know I will, and still appreciate His and Her Circumstances as a great series regardless up to its open-ended conclusion, Episode 24.

Another series I love that never had a real conclusion was the Irresponsible Captain Tylor OVA. Despite its non-ending, I love this show especially right after watching the TV series. The TV series had mostly been comedy, but the OVA does a complete turn with mostly drama, to the point of being bleak and depressing. This may turn off some people, but it hooked/gripped me in a way I didn't see coming, and I found myself caring and feeling for the characters in a way I never expected before. It really was a beautiful series in its own way, and since the Right Stuf discs contain summaries of what happens later in the novel series, I'm able to forgvie its non-ending ending.

Then there's Burst Angel. Technically it did have a conclusion, but the kind of which that would've left itself open to a sequel series, and I'm simply a fanboy who feels it demands one, especially after that Ugetsu Hakua short animation piece.

My only real argument is, whether it be open-ended or definitive, the ending should feel like an ending in some way. There's more Princess Jellyfish story not covered in the anime, but the anime still felt like it had its own self-contained conclusion, even if there could've been more. As long as the feeling is there, then it's probably successful, although it also depends on how good the series itself was.

See you and your show at Otakon, Mike!
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:03 pm Reply with quote
I consider stuff like the Berserk tv series to be finished works because there is a narrative to it. You meet a guy who wants revenge and fights demons and we find out why he does it. It would be like calling Giant Robo unfinished because we never got The Tower of Babel, it works fine as a story.

Compare that with something like Bleach where the anime just ends after a short arc found in the manga. The ending point was simply random.

Of course sometimes your better off with no ending than the added ending you got in the case of stuff like Big O where the things people liked about it (Super Robot action combined with Noir) was replaced by guys screaming about tomatoes, and a confusing plot. The same with Rurouni Kenshin whose anime got one of the worst endings of all times which goes completely against the theme of the manga.
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wandering-dreamer



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1733
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:18 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Fate/Zero, which just wrapped, divided its two cours up between fall of 2011 and spring of 2012 - two discrete seasons.


I'm guessing you meant distinct seasons?
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1761
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Honestly with anime I think its better to have the reverse viewpoint, and try to count the anime that ended well. I have seen hundreds and have less then double digits in anime that I would say ended satisfying. Maybe another 1/3 are open end, which I will take over the rest, which are endings I think are unsatisfying.

And I for one thought FMA, FMA Movie, and FMA brotherhood all had terrible endings, because Ed losses his ability in all 3, with the movie being somehow managing to make it even less of an appealing ending. Brotherhood at least doest have the "oh were trapped in an alternative world" and has Ed and Winry resolved but it was still only eh.
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rapjul



Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:01 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
Honestly with anime I think its better to have the reverse viewpoint, and try to count the anime that ended well. I have seen hundreds and have less then double digits in anime that I would say ended satisfying. Maybe another 1/3 are open end, which I will take over the rest, which are endings I think are unsatisfying.

And I for one thought FMA, FMA Movie, and FMA brotherhood all had terrible endings, because Ed losses his ability in all 3, with the movie being somehow managing to make it even less of an appealing ending. Brotherhood at least doest have the "oh were trapped in an alternative world" and has Ed and Winry resolved but it was still only eh.


FMA Brotherhood's ending was the real manga's ending. There is a chapter that is set a few years later, but that is not in the anime. Read Volume 27 to see more.
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Saphiro01



Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 71
Location: California
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote
We can't have a thread about anime sudden / anime exclusive endings without mentioning Claymore now can we? Cool

The anime ending is okay to great if you have never read the manga; but terribly disappointing if you knew/ know what came next after the Rigaldo fight. Even the fight itself does not end the same way as the manga but is pretty obvious it was a close guess by the staff. To be completely fair, the resolution to the Priscilla arc in the manga STILL has yet to come to a good long term resolution even several years after the anime finished (5 and counting Shocked ... egads!)

I am happy that the rumors of the manga's death were quite exagerated (I want to see how it really ends dagnabbit!) Confused


Last edited by Saphiro01 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 709
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:23 pm Reply with quote
pachy_boy wrote:
I'm surprised you made no mention of His and Her Circumstances, which I thought would've been a prime example.


I wish the recap episodes didn't exist, because then there would have been enough time to complete the school play arc, which ends the Yukino part of the manga.
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invalidname
Contributor



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2271
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for the sensible skepticism towards the use of "cours", which if I may summarize, seems to be "only use jargon if it brings some new, specific understanding, and not just because it makes you sound informed." If only you could have held off the "it's supposed to be spelled 'Aerith'" types a decade or so ago.

Oh well, at least there's still time to put a stop to this "Puella Magi" posing (the show consistently uses the term "mahou shoujo"… literally "magical girl"… why make this more difficult?!)
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:58 pm Reply with quote
It makes sense for OVAs to end abruptly when they're funded on a per-episode basis. But there's less harm done when it's an adaption, then it just becomes and advertisement for a manga or novel, like Please Save My Earth or Seven Cities Story.

There's tons of anime that still need sequels, but are they necessarily unfinished business if they end a story/character arc? I'd love to see more Spice and Wolf, but if you really need more there's always the light novels.


Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:01 pm Reply with quote
Cour is a very useful term, much more so than "season"
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:40 pm Reply with quote
I have never heard anyone use the term 'cour' except when the speaker is a pretentious jack-ass that uses it to lord over others on how much they know about the anime industry. The problem with the word 'season' is that we use it to describe two separate things. A season is a continuous run of a show, and it is a 13-week block, but these aren't always the same. Hayate's first season ran for four seasons, and it's second season ran for two seasons. Besides, cour is not specific. If you say Moretsu Pirates is a two cour show, I don't know how long it runs, it could be 24, or 26, or even 25. But if you say it's a 26-episode show, everyone knows exactly how long it is.

As for endings, I understand the position the companies are in, and I don't expect to always see the main conflict resolved. But I do want to see a sub-conflict resolved. Maybe the hero can't kill the big baddie, but he can take out a sub-boss. Maybe the hero can't get the girl, but they can at least kiss at the end. That sort of thing. But if you look at all the really good anime, you'll notice that they are all complete stories that resolve the main conflict.
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dandelion_rose



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:54 pm Reply with quote
As someone who doesn't watch anime straight as it broadcasts, I find the term cour quite useless and sometimes confusing. The only usefulness it has is that it may indicate a show that can be broadcasted in the same year but spans more than one season, but if your primary mode of consuming anime is by home video or fansubs (once completed) the 'cour' term isn't very useful. I'd rather know the exact episode count.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:09 pm Reply with quote
Melanchthon wrote:
Besides, cour is not specific. If you say Moretsu Pirates is a two cour show, I don't know how long it runs, it could be 24, or 26, or even 25. But if you say it's a 26-episode show, everyone knows exactly how long it is.


Its more than specific enough. The precise episode count is irrelevant, and not something worth remembering for every single show ever, if you are really curious it can be looked up.

Its much more useful to know how many cour a show ran, and how those cour were distributed, than to be anal about the precise episode count.

Also, saying a "season" is a continuous run of a show is also pretty useless information. There are four "Seasons" in anime. Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall. If you know the season a show aired in and how many cour it is, you know 95% of the important information about when it aired.

Mouretsu Pirates is a 2 cour Winter show, Nazo no Kanojo X is a 1 cour Spring show. Rinne no Lagrange is a split-cour show, one cour airing in Winter, the other in Summer.
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AnimeMaine



Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 123
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:12 pm Reply with quote
I was always surprised that "Dragon Half" didn't continue. It's a great What-the-heck anime, and the ending theme is priceless.
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