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I graduated from Parkside. I didn't know we had manga at our library. I probably would have spent a lot more time there had I known. Then again, I've been out of high school for a few years now.

Wicomico County is dramatic. I think it's funny they pulled it out of high schools since Parkside is one of those schools where everyone plays a sport. And the few that would read manga there probably have come in contact with manga with more "intense" content then Dragonball.

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

black.rose.revolution wrote:

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

This will probably get me flamed.

I believe that manga does not belong in school libraries. American comics don't either. School libraries should be more resource centers, with solid literature sections, not sources of entertainment.

Right. We wouldn't want kids to accidently discover the joy of reading. If they did that, they might want to read all sorts of things!

Yes, because literature cannot teach kids the joy of reading without resorting to pulp and comic books.

I don't understand all the fuss. If I hadn't read comic books as a child, I probably would not have grown up to be the vivacious reader I am today.

You really believe a 9-year-old is going to voluntarily pull "War and Peace" off the shelf and just devour it?

That's certainly the kind of elitist attitude we don't need here...

I'm surprised there isn't more of this reaction from schools. You would never have found anything resembling a comic in my old high school in the 70's, much less anything with the primary themes and the sexual innuendo in manga. This seems like a very isolated incident, and yes, seems like one of those situations where it's just more trouble than it's worth to make an argument out of it. Kids who want to read manga will find out about it and get it somewhere. The school doesn't need to provide it.

That concept of impressionability is what drives ratings, not just parental attitudes, though any specific age cut-off is a best-guess based on averages. Mimicry is certainly a factor, though much more for the very young. While the distinction between reality and fiction is obvious (or should be) to older kids and adults, it isn't to someone too young to fully understand the difference, or what is considered acceptable in fiction and not in their particular corner of real life. I do know a 4 year old who tied a towel around his neck and "flew" from the kitchen table head first onto the ceramic tile floor... fortunately no permanent damage. But certainly an improved understanding of reality vs. fiction.

Wrial Huden wrote:

If I hadn't read comic books as a child, I probably would not have grown up to be the vivacious reader I am today.

I'm sorry, but this is just too ironic to let pass. Your comic book education is showing... that is, you need to look that word up in a real dictionary and find the right one.

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

Yes, because literature cannot teach kids the joy of reading without resorting to pulp and comic books.

So any non-"quality" literature is out? Just because it's not "quality" literature does not mean it has no place. What if the school library is the only resource a child has for any type of reading material outside of ordering something and buying it from a bookstore? I grew up reading all sorts of books: any sort of fiction or resource materials, stemming from usage of both the school library and the library near my school. The only reason I went to the library not in my school was because it had a more extensive collection. I moved on to buying books because after awhile the required reading didn't allow me to simply just check out a book.

But I can't believe the school, knowing how "protective" they can be, allowed a 9 year old check something out that is rated 13+. They should have realized that with children under that age it wouldn't be considered appropriate.

I question the reasons this isn't allowed in a High School library. I think, while not the greatest of reading material, they should be fine to have access to it. If I could read about violence and fighting (Animorphs ha) when I was less than 10 years of age, 13+ is not a big jump for *gasp* something sexual. This may be just the differences in cultures, where most people in the US shy away from anything dealing with sexual relations and whatnot. If it has to deal with the body or intimacy of that nature, it is practically condemned by older people.

Of course maybe the labeling of content would be more "assuring" to parents... but how many parents actually look at what kids bring home until the kid tells their parents about what they've read? I mean, kids read Twilight and all the parents said were that at least the were reading. I could argue the quality of the book but that's beside the point. I think that most present-day parents only care about what a child is reading until a child tells their parents about what they've read, not paying any type of concern until it is brought to their notice by thinking that so long as they're reading it's ok. I stand by that while labeling the content in manga would be good, I don't think it'd work well.

Wrial Huden wrote:

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

black.rose.revolution wrote:

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

This will probably get me flamed.

I believe that manga does not belong in school libraries. American comics don't either. School libraries should be more resource centers, with solid literature sections, not sources of entertainment.

Right. We wouldn't want kids to accidently discover the joy of reading. If they did that, they might want to read all sorts of things!

Yes, because literature cannot teach kids the joy of reading without resorting to pulp and comic books.

I don't understand all the fuss. If I hadn't read comic books as a child, I probably would not have grown up to be the vivacious reader I am today.

You really believe a 9-year-old is going to voluntarily pull "War and Peace" off the shelf and just devour it?

That's certainly the kind of elitist attitude we don't need here...

I don't really want to get involved, but he has a point. I myself sucked up comics as a kid, yet I rarely had the will to read something as involved as an actual novel, so neither of us can really use personal experience as a way to prove that the statement is right or wrong. I don't think comics are any more help at getting kids involved with reading as actual childrens books. They offer great entertainment value, like most books, but very little of anything else. Libraries have been trying to recently bring more kids back by offering manga and comics, but it's also a problem as they have yet to find a proper way of filtering the material. They offer very little educational value. I agree about not offering manga in "school" libraries, as that place should be meant for a more educational literary use and not so much recreational. Public libraries are a different story, since it encompasses more than a school demographic.

The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:

Talk about being overprotective.

It's just manga! Totally fake. Not real. Made up.

There's no place for censorship in a free society, kiddies!

How does this apply to the current situation at all? (Hint. It doesn't.)

Please just save us your cliched, irrelevant rants about the evils of censorship. Nobody wants to listen to you if you approach this with all the though of a parrot.

The argument that manga should not be allowed into a library on the sole basis that it is not quality literature is so far from what a library should be it angers me. It should not just be a place for research, or for reading classical literature. A library, within a school or not, should allow access to all forms of literature, all forms of media. In fact a school library should have the same variety of books as a town library if not more. The most important thing is that a child finds something that they are interested in reading, it is the schools and the parents responsibility to decide if the material is not too mature for the audience. But beyond that there should be no censorship of the type of literature allowed in a school's library.

Those that are saying only classic literature and resources should be in a library, and that no graphic works should be present on the shelves, obviously have never read works such as Maus and Road to Perdition.

I'm glad my Middle school library had teen fiction novels for us. And I'm proud that my public library boasts a very large Manga collection that is appropriately shelved. Along with stocking many classic Anime.

black.rose.revolution wrote:

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

This will probably get me flamed.

I believe that manga does not belong in school libraries. American comics don't either. School libraries should be more resource centers, with solid literature sections, not sources of entertainment.

Right. We wouldn't want kids to accidently discover the joy of reading. If they did that, they might want to read all sorts of things!

I think they shouldn't have books without just pictures in them, unless its an elementary school. They should try reading Heinlein. Enjoyment and it actually makes you think. I'm not talking about Friday or some of his other messed up stuff. For that matter they could read Tolkien. But that would take waaaaaay too much thought and we can't actually risk children who grow up in front of a TV the chance that they might know more than "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and "Ultimate Kamehameha". Better to give them more of what they watch on TV.

Kuroki wrote:

The argument that manga should not be allowed into a library on the sole basis that it is not quality literature is so far from what a library should be it angers me. It should not just be a place for research, or for reading classical literature. A library, within a school or not, should allow access to all forms of literature, all forms of media. In fact a school library should have the same variety of books as a town library if not more. The most important thing is that a child finds something that they are interested in reading, it is the schools and the parents responsibility to decide if the material is not too mature for the audience. But beyond that there should be no censorship of the type of literature allowed in a school's library.

Those that are saying only classic literature and resources should be in a library, and that no graphic works should be present on the shelves, obviously have never read works such as Maus and Road to Perdition.

I'm glad my Middle school library had teen fiction novels for us. And I'm proud that my public library boasts a very large Manga collection that is appropriately shelved. Along with stocking many classic Anime.

Oh, I forgot. This is America and we should dumb down our literature so our children don't have to think too hard.

There are exceptions, of course, but saying that Dragon Ball is on the same level as Maus is seriously doing Maus an injustice and shows that you completely missed the point.

The again, you're probably a victim of the American school system....

Expias wrote:

I question the reasons this isn't allowed in a High School library. I think, while not the greatest of reading material, they should be fine to have access to it.

I'd more question the waste of resources. I don't know of a school library that isn't strapped for funds these days and at 10 dollars a book for manga, that is just as much as any other thick full up paperback. If funds were unlimited, then in a high school library it probably wouldn't matter.

Kuroki wrote:

The argument that manga should not be allowed into a library on the sole basis that it is not quality literature is so far from what a library should be it angers me. It should not just be a place for research, or for reading classical literature. A library, within a school or not, should allow access to all forms of literature, all forms of media. In fact a school library should have the same variety of books as a town library if not more. The most important thing is that a child finds something that they are interested in reading, it is the schools and the parents responsibility to decide if the material is not too mature for the audience. But beyond that there should be no censorship of the type of literature allowed in a school's library.

Those that are saying only classic literature and resources should be in a library, and that no graphic works should be present on the shelves, obviously have never read works such as Maus and Road to Perdition.

For me, it's not that I think schools should completely ban all manga and comic books out of their libraries, it's that I don't think having it there is at all necessary. A public library is fine, since it caters to all age groups and all minds. A school should definitely be concerned with bringing to best media to the children of the school to read. That said, I think a school can spend funding on far better reading material than manga and comics. If they think a certain manga or a certain comic holds some sort of great pop culture or educational value, then by all means they should go for it. Otherwise, they should leave the rest of the mindless entertainment value comics in their respective stores or at a public library.

Quote:

I'm glad my Middle school library had teen fiction novels for us. And I'm proud that my public library boasts a very large Manga collection that is appropriately shelved. Along with stocking many classic Anime.

I know my library has a whole little room dedicated to manga and comics, and I'm very happy about that, but at a public school, where education and stimulation of the mind should be their biggest priority, I think they should either look for a book with more literary value, or heavily monitor what comics or manga they bring in. It's not because I think manga and comics are complete garbage, far from it, I simple feel the budget could be better spent elsewhere.

As for the original problem. If based on age rating then I think it would be fine to allow certain manga into certain schools. That means putting the appropriate manga in the appropriate schools for that age rating. Dragon Ball should not be in an elementary school library.

Oh, I forgot. This is America and we should dumb down our literature so our children don't have to think too hard.

There are exceptions, of course, but saying that Dragon Ball is on the same level as Maus is seriously doing Maus an injustice and shows that you completely missed the point.

The again, you're probably a victim of the American school system....[/quote]

I was in no way saying that Dragon Ball was on the same level as Maus. I was stating that those that think literature in a library should be only tradition text has a narrow view of what good literature is.

I also never said anything about dumbing down our children. Allowing a child, or a person in general to pick up a piece or writing off a library shelf, no matter the quality, is opening them up to a new experience. And There should be no regulations on what kinds of literature are available. Most children do not pick up a novel without first reading R.L Stein or something on the same reading level. Now comparing R.L Stein to some of the age appropriate manga out there, there are plenty of more well written manga than books of the same reading level, which concocted to be sold and read to grade school aged kids and not written with any real substance.

The quality of a piece of media is objective and depends on the reader, and a library has no place to decide that something is not quality enough for someone to read.

Kuroki wrote:

I'm glad my Middle school library had teen fiction novels for us. And I'm proud that my public library boasts a very large Manga collection that is appropriately shelved. Along with stocking many classic Anime.

That is a great place for teen fiction novels. They are fluff but something that makes people read and use their imaginations to curl around the idea of the author. Heinlein is a good author for this: Have Spacesuit Will Travel, Podkayne from Mars, Starship Troopers, Double Star (to name just a few). The saying that a picture is worth a thousand words really misses the point that a young mind has more potential than anything else. It isn't trapped by what they know is true, and what better way to capture an imagination than by making them see without it being drawn out completely for them?

Just my thought.

Just to say, my earlier post wasn't intended to side with only putting literary classics into school libraries. However, I'm old, and was lucky in that my grandmother read a lot of books with me before I started school. At first they were simple picture books, but advanced in complexity to about short story level. By the time I was 12, I had a solid habit of my own reading novels and even non-fiction for pleasure. Mostly science fiction, but for stretching one's mind, holding a youngster's interest, and exercising and building reading ability, you couldn't beat writers like Heinlein, Asimov, Herbert and their generation as gerthdynn mentioned.

The subject matter was often above the current age "ratings" level, which of course didn't exist back then. U.S. comics were crap compared to what I had been exposed to even by age 4, and I never developed an interest beyond buying a few copies out of curiosity.

I don't disagree with the idea generally that "whatever gets a child reading" is valid. But then I wonder why it was such a problem to get them interested in reading. For me, it was simply that someone thought it important enough to spend time actively exposing me to it. My family were also readers. There was always a book on every nightstand.

Manga is fine for entertainment, and I'll grant some of it is high quality. But let's not confuse it with real literature, or a teaching methodology or program for developing good reading skills. It uses a small vocabulary, contains very little description or exposition and isn't dense enough to compare with real books in the depth of concepts, themes and whatnot presented that make a reader think and develop their mind. It's still primarily a visual medium, not textual, produced as entertainment. Some video game franchises equal average manga for their literary value in terms of theme.

If there are statistics that indicate providing manga in schools leads to students developing an interest in real literature and developing advanced reading ability, then I'd like to see them.

What I do say is there is no reason for my taxes to be used to buy manga for schools. Put it in the public library where every type of reading material should be available for people's enjoyment or enrichment. But a school is, or they used to be, for educating people, not for entertaining them. I'll stop before diving into my viewpoint on the general state of education in the U.S. based on the literary skills of Internet posters...

Kyaa the Catlord wrote:

This will probably get me flamed.

I believe that manga does not belong in school libraries. American comics don't either. School libraries should be more resource centers, with solid literature sections, not sources of entertainment.

I actually agree with you that the school should not have comics. I love my manga, but children should be reading good literature books rather than comics. If they want comics, then go to the public library. When kids are fist learning to read, they should not just read comics or manga, they need books with proper sentence structure and not just pictures. You can almost get away from reading some manga with just looking at the pictures and not any of the dialogue, and I know many of the manga don't have tons of dialogue. So I think it is just fair for school libraries not to carry manga or comics. With so many schools with having budget problems, they should use the money for better books or pay their staff better.

PS- please do notice I mean only school libraries should not carry manga or comics. The public library should carry these items to provide access for people of all ages to enjoy manga.

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