Forum - View topicNEWS: Osaka Considers Regulating Boys-Love Materials
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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2 sources: 2 definitions:
Heterocentrism: 1) The assumption made when relating to others that everyone is heterosexual and 2) Discrimination against homosexuals and bisexuals. Heterocentric: The belief that heterosexual activities and institutions are better than those with a genderless or homosexual orientation. I in no way represent or support these ideologies. Some gay people might (probably still in denial) but I am actively and strongly involved in eliminating all types homophobia. I am proud of and confident in my sexuality and encourage others to be too. Homophobia has negatively affected me and I try my best to educate others about it. So I still think you are misinterpreting my argument, J-Syxx since, I'll say it again, I am NOT advocating any of the banning measures that were suggested, and not any of the analogies with other situations (ie black porn stars), either. But to call me heterocentrist because I think yaoi/BL should specifically anger gays if it's banned (for something that is, lets say, 80% consumed by straight people) then you are homocentrist (and just as bad) because it happens to also be consumed by gays. The fact that yaoi revolves around gay relationships doesn't really have much to do with it. We could be talking about slice-of-life school manga with porn in it. Should banning it expressly upset people who are in school any more than it should upset people who are not? |
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jsyxx
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Really, you've done nothing to counter my argument at all here other than displaying some more super contorted logic that may or may not include a typo and makes zero sense. Also the fact you think all BL titles are pornography shows you don't even have the slightest concept of what you are talking about since that's a lie that it's all pornography. If you're completely serious here, that would suggest even more heterocentrism to me because making the link between fiction with same sex relationships that may or may not involve sex = pornography is pretty well past that goal line. A good definition of BL:
It doesn't say pornography. Also something can have sex and not be equivalent to Debby Does Dallas. Sexuality is part of human nature and romantic relationships, so requiring that no sex ever be portrayed is ridiculous. If the news article was really about pornography I think it would've made that explicit, and if the people who want to enact this law weren't homophobes they would again not make it specific to guy/guy only.
Ask any random gay person if they found the fact that comic books with gay relationships would be restricted and nothing else would be homophobic? Sorry, but you don't have much of a leg to stand on here. Last edited by jsyxx on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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No I'm trying to discourage the misconception that gay content is only for gay readers. That's why I harped on Nemo_N's comment that restricting yaoi suggests that the activists are targeting gays merely because, according to Nemo_N's comment, only gays read gay manga. My argument was in attempt to correct that misconception but now you are accusing me of having the same ignorant, homophobic viewpoint that I was discouraging. And about Yaoi being homophobic, it gets accused of that by critics (namely by GLBT supporters, and otherwise) because the whole Seme/Uke thing, if you really think about it is very stereotypical, ignorant and *shrugs* umm maybe a little homophobic really. As a transgendered person, this particularly hits home because as one with a non-conforming gender identity I am often disgusted to think one is relegated only to female role in sex just because they might be frail or small. Being gay does not restrict such narrow prescribed, unavoidable and stereotypical assignments of roles. It is not reflective of a healthy, normal sexual relationship where each partner can CHOOSE to give or receive. Lack of choice only reinforces the barbaric misconception that gender and expression of it is inseparable from sexual orientation. Edit: It may have seemed I was suggesting yaoi/BL is all pornographic. No I don't think that (and definitely not simply because there are gay themes in it either). IOW I strongly support that if something is non-graphic and generally PG visually, it should NOT be bumped up to a higher rating just because it has gay themes in it. But in my argument I was talking about specifically things that 18+ in nature. So when I referenced yaoi as being pornographic, I was just talking about yaoi that happens to have explicit depictions of sex. I think it's safe to assume the article also pertains only to explicit BL, because that is probably where they would enact restrictions on even in a blanket statement that all BL was going to be affected (but that may not be the case, and just something lost in translation). Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:42 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Tomibiki
 Posts: 834 |
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Osaka's gearin' up for one big no homo
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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But please by all means visit my thread, with interesting discourse about gay manga, in the manga forum. And add your comments if you are the oh-so-knowledgeable princess of BL. |
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poisondusk
 Posts: 63 Location: Brighton, UK |
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The news article states that they are "considering the regulation of women's (josei) comic magazines and boys-love materials" so it's not just BL coming under fire here, it's other women's comics as well. If anything the target here appears to be erotic materials created by and aimed at women. As to the question of BL and its relation to actual gay men, I would recommend this essay (contains NSFW images) for some perspective from both female BL creators and Japanese gay men. |
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jsyxx
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And you're completely pompous to think just because you're transgender that your arguments couldn't possibly be biased towards heterocentrism in any way even though I just made you backtrack on about 70 percent of your argument that included labeling all BL as pornography and suggesting gay fiction shouldn't be read by women. You want to label me as using a degrading label, I was just going on your words alone and describing an argument or point of view. Just because you then decided to pull out your LGBT card out doesn't mean it makes your argument, that only choosing to target BL manga is not homophobic or biased in anyway, less stupid. Oh and speaking of degrading labels, ironically you're calling me princess now, suddenly making assumptions about my identity, but unfortunately I don't need to reveal mine as an excuse for trying to defend a really nonsensical argument.
I commented on the sexist undertones as well. Japan to me is historically one of the most sexist socities and definitely views the "sex is for men, not for women" thing as pretty much set in stone. Still the homophobic undercurrents of career politicians using manga with gay relationships to score political points is extremely obvious here. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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Let's not say that. I did a survey on a yaoi community I moderate and out of over 700 respondents, only 57% were heterosexual, a slight majority. ~ For those who think this isn't a concern or that it's a good idea, think again. This would effectively kill the BL genre. It's a niche within a niche to begin with, and to bar it from the convenience stores that sell so many of the anthologies, as well as from the older teen readers who enjoy the stories, would be death to it. Because if it happens in one prefecture others will likely follow suit. This really is an assault against free female expressions of sexuality and giving young women access to these expressions. Between this and the last set of bans of some shoujo anthologies, it seems that they're not the least concerned with what young men are reading, only young women, and that's really disturbing. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I called you princess out of respect. 1) because the photo of the person in your avatar looks female 2) I wanted you to offer your authoritative insight on yaoi in my other thread, I thought it would add to the discussion in a good way. Besides, you already used a male pronoun in referring to me. Who's making assumptions? To clear it up for you, yes my biological sex is male. But now I think you are being immature with your childish game rather than simply pointing out your correct gender (I don't care really) or just not getting worked up about it. LGBT Card? Ha! how sophmoric. I didn't state that because of an attempt to make myself seem immune to your accusations. I said it it to support my indication of dedication toward LGBT issues. I could have said simply that I was an LGBT-ally to counter that label (the definition to me is that heterocentrist ='s nothing short of homophobic). But I decided to be more open and honest to the ANN community about my identity rather than hide it (I harbor no regret or shame in that identity). |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Then the material should be age-rated and convenience stores should only allow the appropriate aged person access to it. If the industry and conveninece stores can't do this simple task, then the convenience stores shouldn't sell it imo. |
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The_Q
Posts: 57 |
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yestofreedom.org it's a start. It formed when all this Rapelay BS started, they als have several things you can do to= help. Check it out when you have the chance. Oh, and fun fact. These outraged "international communities" are usualy radical feminist (like equality now) or christians. They are the primary supporters of these bans. In fact, sankaku had an article on this a while ago.
I Doubt it. The "pissed off" fangirls that you mentioned won't mean a thing if they don't actively do anything to stop it. And bitching on a forum doesn't count, nor does it amount to anything. So the real question is... if said bans start to amount to something, will the people speak up? And I would be a little concerned, because that's how it all starts. First, the chisel away a bit here, a bit there, then they slowly go for an all out ban. It's happened dozens of times in the past, and can easily happen again. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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bubblegumliam
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As a gay man, I cannot believe how long it has taken to investigate this subject. A vast amount of pornographic material has been published/animated without any real sense of control when many characters depicted are obviously under the age of 18 and are involved in very explicite sexual scenes.
Upon my discovery of such anime, I was deeply disturbed and i have since lost a great intrest in anime in gerneral on the basis that child porn is being distibuted on sites which I was apart of. That animation teams and cartoonists are being payed to create pornography involving children, and that 'fans' consume it without thinking about the moral dilemma that is posed in front of them. Being a gay man I am also annoyed at the objectification of my sexuality for the consumation of these 'fans', and for them to associate such material with homosexuality (yaoi/shounen-ai) is disgusting. The distribution and consumation of this material in fact actually blurs the lines between phedeofilia and homosexuality, this is ignorance. I hope the regulators put more pressure onto the publishers ensuring that child porn is not promoted. As for the affect on young people, pornography in general is prohibited, let alone such involving children. It is not the goverment discriminating against homosexuality, they are to prevent the accesibility of pornography (gay or straight) to children. Yaoi in general has alot to answer for. |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Random question:
How are age ratings currently set up in Japan? I believe there is something for mature rated series, but what about the "12 year olds shouldn't read this, but it's fine with older teens" series? Perhaps a system based a bit on the US and Canada system (I'm not sure if there are any active UK publishers, as Tanoshimi seems pretty much dead), except making it more like the Japanese game world. The CERO currently uses A (all ages), B (12+), C (15+), D (17+) and Z (18+). It's more or less the same as ESRB, except the latter as some strange stuff like eC and E10+, and ages may be off by a year. Though not fool-proof, it gives people a better understanding of the content, especially if a little blurb with labels of "Sexual content", "graphic gore", etc, are added. In any case, if a parent cares enough it's easy to find out what their child is reading just by looking at the back or some such. Even better, this can be applied to all series, rather than just graphic yaoi or josei titles. It's like killing multiple birds with one stone! |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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