Forum - View topicNEWS: Weekly Shonen Jump Editors Discuss Unauthorized Copies
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Well, then it's also unfair to stereotype publishers.
And I think you make a lot of assumptions when you say a company licenses something "blindly and hoped the title licensed will sell". A lot of it is probably guess work, but they make decisions based on what they think about a given title, how it does in Japan, how long it is, past sales of the authors work domestically, and how sales for similar titles are here. Availability of materials, costs involved in licensing, domestic demand, availability/popularity of anime tie-in, personal associations with the artist (hey, it's how Fantagraphic's new manga line got started, and how Studio Proteus licensed much of their content for Dark Horse back in theday), are all things that affect a title getting licensed as well. And you can't blame companies for servicing the fans of Vampires and Yaoi and such- those fans put their money where their mouth is. I'm guessing that's how ComicsOne/DrMaster ended up being able to finish all of IronWokJan or why Yen Plus opted to have Svetlana Chmakova do an OEL title for their magazine- if fans support it, it'll happen. To the best of my knowledge, VIZ hasn't cancelled any titles outright in a very long time. Companies do their best to find the market for a title, and if it isn't working, then they'll just move onto somethingelse. In domestic comics, if your work isn't selling, it gets cancelled, and resources are directged to somethingelse. It's just the fact of business. Putting it all online, or making a concentrated effort at say, making baseball fans buy baseball manga, won't mean anything if there's no market or way to make a living off of it. All sorts of websites close all the time for those reasons. I'm guessing a lot of comic publishers and waiting to see how the ebook market pans out, which is probably why manga publishers aren't keen on it either. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25816 I just read coverage of Jeff Smith's panel at C2E2 that related why artists find the net questionable- ""Right now, it's a little bit dicey," Smith said. "I haven't really seen a good model for how money gets from the reader into the cartoonist's pocket yet. The web is a very dicey place. You can get everything I've ever done and everything Mark's ever written for free." Jeff's both a publisher and an artist [Bones sold millions of books over the past 18 years btw], so he knows what he's talking about, and he talks about the Ipad and other stuff. Worth a read. |
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calimike
Posts: 113 |
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Keizo told me someone got WSJ 21-22 yesterday. He will post Naruto, One Piece and Bleach spoilers on 2ch.net tomorrow or Tuesday.
WSJ 21-22 hit stores on April 26 before Golden Week holiday. WSJ 23 will return on May 10 but subscribers should got WSJ via mail around of May 1-3. |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3662 |
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I buy plenty of manga already (with too much of it unread so far though that is best left for a different post...) so I don't mind paying to read manga.
Saying that, I also read manga online. Some are licensed, most are not. For me, I'd be happy to pay a small monthly fee for on time (within 24 hours of release), clean, well translated and most importantly, un-edited versions of those licensed series. However it's up to those companies to be able to provide that. It would need to be a catch-all monthly fee though, if I had to pay for individual series (unless the prices were quite low) I'd rather just buy the individual volumes when they came out. I do like owning an actual physical thing when I buy something after all. Ideally there would be a type of subscription that gives you online access to the latest chapter and you get the printed volume when that comes out. Think of it like a pre-order program. Put down the money now and get access to the chapters early. While I'm sure that this was directed at the Japanese readership, hopefully this means that Japanese companies may be open to talking with US companies to start thinking about alternative means of distribution. |
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Narutofreak1
Posts: 7 |
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While scanlation is a problem to the industry, it also helps people to determine if the manga is good or not.
Like for Kaichou wa Maid-sama. Anime came out, read the manga, and now I'm planning on buying all 4 volumes. Would I be buying them if the manga was never online? Nope. So it does help |
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cetriya
 Posts: 156 Location: NJ |
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I understand, you want to get paid for your hard work. Thank you for your love and passion for making cool entertainment.
but guess what? you cant get my money if I dont know it exist or worst (what japan likes to do at times) you do everything you can to keep me from buying anything from you. I can barely read french, but I still get french licensed manga when I can because manga is really limited in the US. Now with no scanlations, I may never read what could have been a series I like because it was never brought over. |
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Narutofreak1
Posts: 7 |
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Yeah like seriously. I dare them to get rid of all the scanlations. Then see how much their profits drop.
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hitewill
Posts: 3 |
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I keep seeing alot of people saying how sick it makes them that all of this is making soo many starving manga artist and how people that cant wait for a licensing company to come along and realize that they can really make some money off particular story / artist by making it known to other countries and aqnd how they painstakingly translate 19 pages at a time.... oh yea last licensed manga I bought was 4 months behind the actual story in Japan. Please dont try and tell me VIZ or Funimat...or the others are doing all they can do to decrease that wait? If they can not then the fault is partly theirs as well, and web sites like this one must carry a share also, If these treasures werent advertised to death then maybe there would be less of a demand, and the horrible meanies that are some how finding some magic way to release translationsin days, why I have heard that there are some people that use some dangerous dark magic to translate within do I dare believe.. hours? They should be burned at the stake.
OK enough standing on pulpits and declaring who is right and wrong... If we all would shoulder their own part of the problem, something great might happen. Because I will admit I do search the internet for newset releases and read them, I just dont have the self control to wait months or even 2 weeks, I've forgotten a lifetime in 2 weeks. But I will also admit that as soon as I hear about it releasing here in the evil USA I will purchase a copy or 2 sometimes a 3rd if I think it is a well written story and I give them to my daughters freinds so maybe they wont be evil like me and steal from the artist or the licensers. Yet there are times that no matter how long I wait or research I never find a legal copy of the story, I will be creative in my ways of making sure I pay proper penance to the artist, I've never had an artist send back my money order or a cash card. I would rather see an artst get it than vultures like some license groups. Just because I cant wait until the proper time or avoid any and all anime / manga news sites I would like to think that I am not alone In making sure I am not a cause for Manga death |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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But here is the question if you don't know it exists does it truly exist at all? I mean how does it affect your life exactly? And if these series are "great" or "sure-fire hit" why is it that more businesses are not showing up to meet that demand legitimately to make a killing in profit? And you act as if there are no other way to find a manga that is of interest to you, is that true or are their other methods that you are not using, other resources lying untapped? Do you truly believe it when someone says without facts that this series is never going to be released in a format you can obtain and understand? If so you may start or help a self-fulfilling prophecy if you do and if you remain a skeptic of that statement it may still not happen, so what to do? hitewill: Self-control is learned and is something that should be practiced. May I suggest learning how to play a horn or do you prefer a guitar? They would probably do you a world of good. And while I commend you for buying it still doesn't give back everything you took, that's part of why I urge people to stop. |
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hitewill
Posts: 3 |
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lol, nah playing the horn makes my cheecks puffy like when I roll down the window and stick my head out, Just trying to see why dogs always enjoy it. and thank you I did come off as sounding as though my cheek music is a pure melody. I just get so discouraged at how all of this blame game is going around and yet I've watched the same musical play out in terms of Anime.
Now the guitar part stumped me, maybe this is why counting this post I have a total of 3 acual posts somewhere out in the vast internet. As far as self control never really did well in that subject, always wore my feelings outside, maybe ahhh  now I see, it must be impossible to sense any of my sarcasm or my honesty when I changed the mask.
Thank You I see why I havn't grasped message board do's and dont's. Yes you are correct in saying that maybe I could'nt replace all I took, or borrowed, which ever is worded better, I dont think I will stop, I dont think to stop would be the right way either, if I do that I wont learn anything about myself and I wont look for a better way to achieve a better outcome. Please explain the guitar part, so I can play better, and I will work on my horn playing. practice may not make perfect but it will make it better. 
It was not my intention to point my finger at mentioned license groups, they were just what popped into mind, as I was hunt and pecking. Thank you |
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hitewill
Posts: 3 |
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I was reading more on this subject in all these posts, I dont understand a few things, Is a person / website / group, do the majority of them translate and post because they are fans? or is it for another reason I dont see?, It would be sad if the people that love something the most end up hurting it in the end.
lol, thats so human of everyone, Or Im just not seeing the obvious? Help |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Hah, really it's any task that requires discipline to become good at, I just selected instruments as they are arts of a kind and thus could be a two for one deal, self-control and an appreciation for the arts. Although if you must you could also practice something to get in touch with your inner weeabo by practicing Bushido or Karate, as they will probably have the same effect. Maybe a question to help you think for awhile, who knows if you can find the answer that everyone can agree upon maybe this world will be a better place eh? How can the Trees be kept equal without a hatchet, axe, or saw? To answer your other question These are groups that are taking another persons work without permission and giving it away for free. The worst offenders are the ones in which their profit lies in this "black market" distribution. As these are things that by rights they cannot do and all the money they make on the endeavor doesn't go back to those who make it possible, you know artists, publishers those kind of people. |
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butterfly320
Posts: 10 |
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As for coach purse designed for men and women, you can buy it in every exclusive coach outlet store online or some big malls. Especially the coach purses for women, we can say their products sit on the top luxury position in the world; fake coach purses design for women is so novelty and fantastic, they always leading the fashion orientation. And they own the latest materials . That is why they are so proud of their design and sales idea on their bags. Because they deserve this kind of honor.
Last edited by butterfly320 on Fri May 07, 2010 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cetriya
Posts: 156 Location: NJ |
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you're right , it wouldn't effect me, it would effect them in that I'm one less person that will buy.
I think you assumed more and didn't read well. the fact that I've found out series in french though Im not that well in french is a hint that I do have other avenues then just looking up scanlation sites (sharing among friends, libraries, publisher's sites). My statement was an open statement that didn't mention my opinions of scanlations. I want the creators to make their money, I feel for them but have you ever tried to buy directly from japan with out a 3rd party? Its stupid hard. They've said it before, they dont really consider 'out side japan' to be a real concern. (google up Illuststudio, to see what people do to buy it). If they stop scanlations (if they can) , I'm not going cry about it. I'm more worried about korean and chineses comics coming over, if ever. All in all, I honestly dont mind waiting. I read most comics in chunks as I do have a life and I spend to much time on the internet as is. If it never comes out and I never know of it? I wouldn't consider a hard core otaku but even i have nitch interests that many of you guys wouldn't know of (and I can still brows japanese sites so I'd still find out). Its the internet, the purpose is for easy sharing so even with out scanlations, we'd still get news/info of latest shows/series (and the cycle would just start over again). |
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motosierra
Posts: 2 |
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There is a lot of debate on this issue, as someone who assists several fansubbing/translation groups with QC this is my $0.05
We want our bleach, and we want it now. That's the nature of consumers in capitalism. If we could read Japanese we'd have the WSJ sent to us and we'd get our fix that way. We don't speaka da moonspeaka though and that presents a problem. The Japanese comic industry has handled this poorly (I won't take no for an answer on that, they do bad work like clockwork) by providing a product that has months to wait for it's release, instead of hours or days as it ought to be, and is often either at a fairly unattainable price (400 episodes of bleach,@~8 episodes in tankonban = ~$10USD, $500USD before taxes if the distributor makes no profit) or in the case of dubbed anime, is nastily americanized and has the voice talent of a 12th grade production of macbeth... listen to Abari Renji say "howl zabimaru" in english, then listen to him scream out "Howl Zabimaru!" (in japanese) in the original japanese... I mean it when I say he *says* howl zabimaru in english. You'll get what I mean. So people like me who, shockingly enough, LIKE anime and manga in a more faithful format have gotten together and started putting out fairly good subtitled versions of anime and manga. I won't mention which ones because frankly the more mention these fans get for their faithful translations, to spite their avid encouragement that we buy the crap editions when they come out (and we do, to spite the fact that our purchase says, "Yes, I want manga 3-9 months late and overpriced") the more often they get DMCA requests and are knocked off of the internet. The comic industry in Japan has two options. They can pull their foreign markets and work tirelessly to make sure no white man ever reads their comics, for fear of taking a loss in western markets. Or they can, and I know this is shocking, HIRE these fans at a fairly low price (after all there is no "minimum wage" on commissioned art) and place them on websites with ad revenue that goes to their company. They could EVEN go so far as to make us pay an additional ¥25 for a look at the very latest episodes (yes, I say use ¥, paypal makes that easy enough), which would entice people who, like me, sit around on websites refreshing the page for hours waiting for the latest manga, to PAY them for that manga. Subbers get paid for what is generally their HOBBY, artists and producers get paid for their work, and fans get what they want, when they want it... OR they could keep suing the butts off of subbers and eventually their north american markets will go bankrupt. |
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shaggyglasses
 Posts: 46 |
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@motosierra
i'm not sure but i heard it takes a lot of time just to get something licensed in america and it takes a lot of time to do a proper localized translation. fansubbers can get their translations out quicker because they don't have to deal with licensing and they don't have to deal with localization (most often than not, fansubbers prefer literal translations. and don't argue which translation is superior when both have their demographics to cater to. i can argue that fan translations aren't necessarily good translations by book definition). besides, funimation is already releasing shows a few days to an hour after the original was aired. examples: tatami galaxy, one piece, full metal alchemist brotherhood (yet i still see fansubs of one piece). your solution to this issue won't increase the revenue of a company who is using an almost obsolete business model (just look at newspapers and ads don't work, can't stress that enough). their issue really isn't illegal uploads and downloads, it's their business model that isn't generating enough money to sustain itself. the solution is not who to hire to get the job done (like you suggest) but how to sell the product. just because i can get it quicker doesn't necessarily mean i will buy it, there is no price in content when marginal cost is virtually 0 (if they choose the internet streaming route). they need to take their merchandisable content and exploit it to no end. bleach cups, bleach t-shirts, bleach toys, bleach live performances, bleach towels, bleach costumes etc. diversifying is key to staying afloat in what appears to be a post abundant market.
 you know, not everyone outside of japan is white so i seriously don't understand why you even said that.
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