Forum - View topicANNCast - Viewers Like You VII: Adviewnt Children
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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Well I finally got all three plus hours listened to and I only had two things I wanted to say/ask.
First, Zac, any idea why WiFi isn't as accessible in Japan as it is in the U.S? Is it because Japan is more telecommunications based (i.e. they use their cell phone provider to access the internet) verse the U.S? Second, V, you might want to re-listen to what you said in your two hour discussion with Zac because you managed to come off like a fundamentalist preacher (pick your religion)  . If you think about some of the things you said from a religious type outlook (i.e. replace EVA with a region/god/preacher/et al) what you are saying comes off zealous. Between your need to "stick to the 'bible' and the person who wrote its take on the subject," to hugging the fan after a con panel who thanks you "for showing them 'the way,'" to dressing up in a costume to gain attention to your cause (and also sending out tracts (i.e. Franchise kits) to spread your word to other conventions), you really managed to make yourself and your followers look a tad more fanatical than the normal fan. Now I'm not saying you meant to come off this way. The problem is, IMO, that the line between a genre fan, and a someone who is devout about their religious beliefs, is a thin one. If you come from a non religious or anti religious background you may not realize the passion that drives a fan is very similar to the one that drives those who truly believe in their faith(s). Both groups can cross the line from acceptable to questionable without realizing it, at least IMO. V you've gotten pretty close, if not gone over that line a bit, with the EVA stuff. You're starting to do more harm to your cause than promoting it as far as I can tell.
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YotaruVegeta
 Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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I don't think Zac and V are coming back around to this thread.
Japan is lacking in free wifi, and the rest has to be paid for. So it sucks for tourists, but citizens just use the net on their phone. Now to answer for V: "Remember, remember the fifth of November, when God is in his Heaven and all is right with the world" or something like that. |
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alaskaslim
 Posts: 26 Location: The Land Up Over |
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'scuse me, pardon me, new guy coming through, I apologize in advance for any toes I step on...
@ Ornette, EM, SSD: Hey guys!
I'd say It's not a matter of "if you want to enjoy the work" but "how far down the rabbit hole do you want to travel?" The work can perfectly stand up on it's own without the excess research, but us being the obsessive-compulsive Fandumb we are, we wish to know the specific meaning of each and every last detail, thinking it will provide a more clear picture as to Eva's intent. I see this as no different than, say, trying to explain why a nuclear reactor in a film melts down. Plot-wise, the only detail that's important is the fact it melted down, but we try to ascertain why it did and how, and liken it to reality, and all in an attempt to determine if we can rightfully blame the schmuck on duty at the time for not preventing it, or if it's just another chalk up to "an act of God".
Actually, Anno's trend of not doing this and his infamous "too bad" statement is part of why we are here. While he might let slip a clue or two, by en large, he hasn't been giving any answers, and purposefully so, he in fact has stated he wishes his work to be interpreted. Pre-Rebuild, I can really only recall two instances where he personally invoked some authorial intent, and it was about one of the characters in each case, it had relatively nothing to do with the symbolism or meaning, it was pure plot-based details.
"No prized anime"? I get you don't like it, but Evangelion has undeniable accomplishments to its credit, even JO, as much as she loathes the hype around it, was able to recognize it for that much, which I would expand on to include: 1. Inspired new, creative designs in mecha anime. 2. Challenged social norms in the cultural frame-work of Japan 3. Broke censor boundaries, which would allow more dramatic and violent shows like Cowboy Bebop and Wolf's Rain to ever to see the drawing board, and later get on the air. 4. Saved anime as a distinctive art form, by being the first in nearly a decade to be successful, without relying on foreign influences as a crutch. 5. GAINAX's most successful anime, and which saved them from bankruptcy, bringing in around $2 Billion worldwide as a franchise.
At what point was that? If you stopped anywhere before halfway into the series, all you'd be getting annoyed at is a more or less standard Shōnen plot, which thankfully, was all I was looking for at the time...
Like what? You can indeed find anime which objectively have better use of animation, sound, story/plot, and even just as memorable characters, but to my memory, there have been relatively few series which have tried to attack the same issues as Evangelion did, and fewer still in such a direct manner, and I still wouldn't necessarily call them "better" either, as those series weren't trying to incorporate mecha story elements. The reason for there being so few, I think, is due to Evangelion being a series that ultimately bites the hand that feeds it, the Otaku fanbase and Japanese culture/sensibilities as a whole. That perhaps is part to explain why Evangelion sold so well and continues to sell well in merchandise and extra-canonical material, because all of that lessened the blow the series itself dealt. It reassured people to continue to overlook the issues Evangelion had tried to address, and instead got them more caught-up in the fantasy of the show, the fan service, the shipping, the "fan fiction"-esce scenarios. I can only imagine an anime developer going to one of their sponsors, and advocating a story that says to their customers, "yes, you guys and your lives all SUCK!", and as such, most of the works that have tried since Eva to do the same have been more independently derived, and just as prone to failures of their own for it.
I hold that Evangelion is indeed a work that tells us to move on, and I believe that true fans are those who managed to watch Eva, derived something meaningful from it, and still managed move past it without delving into details like I did. After all, what is the point of a lesson, if you can't absorb it, keep moving and build upon it? By being here, it feels not only have I gotten stuck somewhere along the way, it's that I've personally have yet to take Evangelion's message to heart... or Hideaki Anno's words on this for that matter: ANNO: "You're a fool. Study harder." |
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kikiaa19
Posts: 1 |
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I think this V for Vendetta Evangelion guy should read Barthes' The Death of the Author.
He uses words such as "creator" and "author" as if the person who writes a piece has absolute authority and control over the meaning of their work... He also says, we know Avatar is about environmentalism because James Cameron told us so (or at least I swear he said something like that)... I say ludicrous. One need not come to the conclusion that Avatar is about environmentalism because the "creator" said so. You look at the text. And what an "author" says is merely another text to analyze and interpret... not some single lens or doctrinal truth There are no authors, only writers... |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Many people have already mentioned that work, starting with this one. We've already discussed the merits (and otherwise) of its philosophy. Many people also believed that Death of the Author is absolute, giving no power to the author and making everything subject to interpretation. Then there were people such as myself, who say that you've got to at least consider the author and his or her intent, and judge on a case by case basis whether their interpretation came across in their work. Also, for works of parody and satire the audience absolutely must be deferential to the author's intent, otherwise the complete meaning of the work is lost. I gave the example of Niccolò Machiavelli's The Prince. Viewing it as a literal How-to guide for wannabe despots is completely ignoring the fact that it was a satirical work intended as a not-so-subtle (for those in the know) attack on the Medici family, who had screwed Machiavelli over. Yes, many people - many dictators - have taken inspiration from it. But that is a side effect of the work, not the work's raison d'etre. |
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TexMurphy
Posts: 3 |
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I've only listened to the first 37 minutes of the 'argument section', and so far I can see why Zac is getting frustrated. A (some might say legitimate) tactic in a discussion or argument is to change your position so that you can't be pinned down and possibly corrected. I've had discussions with such people and I guess I tend to do what Zac did (at least so far) and that's to let them get it off their chest.
They, like the guest, do not with to enter into a constructive debate where they may learn something or have their ideas challenged. So what do they do it for? I wonder. Possibly it's just an all out offensive whereby they may claim a victory simply because the other side got tired of the discussion or argument. Hell, I'm not even sure what his point is anymore. We need to educate the young? We need greater exposure of anime? How about we discuss these? No because you're just an ordinary guy who doesn't have all the answers, but 'here's what the problem is...'. Repeat and rinse. I have, of course, considered the possibility that this guy is actually one of the better trolls I've heard in some time. |
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