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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:11 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Panzer Vor wrote:
Todd's pretty much a stopped clock when it comes to misogyny, or at least his overly broad conception of it. Sure, there are occasions like this when he gets it right, but he's completely off the mark the rest of the time.


Ah jeez. You're gonna be the new Fencedude aren't you?


Look, Fence isn't the most agreeable person sometimes but he is the last person I would compare a closet misogynist to.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
Panzer Vor wrote:
Todd's pretty much a stopped clock when it comes to misogyny, or at least his overly broad conception of it. Sure, there are occasions like this when he gets it right, but he's completely off the mark the rest of the time.


Ah jeez. You're gonna be the new Fencedude aren't you?


Look, Fence isn't the most agreeable person sometimes but he is the last person I would compare a closet misogynist to.


That would probably be me but again i'm just an a-hole.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2387
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:00 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
belvadeer wrote:
I fail to see how saying this would mitigate anything.


Ni no Kuni was a fun game, just not revolutionary or breakaway huge like people might expect from something with Studio Ghibli's name on it.


I'm almost finished with it and I agree. It has that "Ghibli" flavor to it, especially in the parts that take place in the real world--the visuals and music are spectacular and make me feel like I'm actually in a ghibli film. But the gameplay is nothing too special. The overworlds make for some great exploration, but the fighting is nothing to get too excited over. It's pretty standard ATB-free-roaming fighting and the clock that determines when you can hit again is pretty annoying most of the time since it does feel so free otherwise.
Definitely a recommendation, though.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14766
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:35 am Reply with quote
I think what's generally holding Tales back in the West, as opposed to Final Fantasy, is that Tales charas gotta act less like middle schoolers and more like high schoolers or above. In the West, they like their protagonists stronger emotionally independent - those are the types they can identify with.


TheZeonicFront wrote:
The site and particularly this column likes to cry misogyny over every little scantily clad fictitious anime girl.

Take a good long look at that severed female torso. THAT is misogyny. It is beyond disgusting and offensive and truly encourages violence against women.


Oh c'mon, if that was from a J-developer, everyone here would be all over it (like, say, Higurashi). I say: bring 'em all on! The more, the merrier! Laughing


TitanXL wrote:

In the west, violence is usually seen as okay; it's the sex that people have problems with. If it was a male torso, no one would probably say anything.


That too.

Well now that ya mention it, we do have the Dead Space severed hand here: Laughing

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~~EpiC~~



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:40 am Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
belvadeer wrote:
I fail to see how saying this would mitigate anything.


Ni no Kuni was a fun game, just not revolutionary or breakaway huge like people might expect from something with Studio Ghibli's name on it.


I'm almost finished with it and I agree. It has that "Ghibli" flavor to it, especially in the parts that take place in the real world--the visuals and music are spectacular and make me feel like I'm actually in a ghibli film. But the gameplay is nothing too special. The overworlds make for some great exploration, but the fighting is nothing to get too excited over. It's pretty standard ATB-free-roaming fighting and the clock that determines when you can hit again is pretty annoying most of the time since it does feel so free otherwise.
Definitely a recommendation, though.


I don't know, way to many people are undervaluing this game, so I'm going to butt in here to try to bring it back up. I will say that all my experience with this game is in Japanese and I finished it nearly a year ago, so I can't really comment on the voice acting. Anyways...

When I hear of something with Studio Ghibli's name on it I don't expect to watch something revolutionary or anything like that. What I expect is something magical and heartwarming, something that could be considered one of the best of its genre. That is exactly what Ni no Kuni is.

. It's more of an experience. The art and graphics are fantastic and really give a sense of the world from the perspective of a young boy. Buildings tower over you, magi makes your eyes light up, and the vasteness of the world leaves you in awe. Exploration in Ni no Kuni is exhillerating. You will let the camera linger on each breathtaking site and you'll shake in anticipation for the next. It just might be how Lewis and Clark must have felt on their own adventures. To top it off, it feels like the world is alive. Almost all of the NPCs have there own story to tell and their on problems apart from the world being at stake. It really adds to the sense of grandeur and you will want to read every line of dialogue.


The battle system is unique. It feels like a mix of Tales and Pokemon; it might be how a Pokemon adventure game would play if it used an open real time battle system. It's got more than enough strategic depth to make encounters fairly difficult, you can't button mash your way through. The difficulty ramps up steadily as you progress in a very satisfying way.

The soundtrack is quite possibly one of the best in gaming history, the sound effects are crisp, and the voice acting (at least in Japanese) is nothing less than superb, giving the characters a soul of their own.

The story is also one of the best I've seen in recent memory and while it all appears rather child-like on the surface it deals with some rather mature themes like dealing with death and loss. It is excellently paced and heartwarming (it's a story about fixing broken hearts, after all)

Also kudos for making one of the best cast of characters in ages, fueled by one of the most heartwarming and endearing main characters of all time.

So fine, the game doesn't break new ground(hell, the only game that has in the last 5 years or so is Journey), but it is a nearly flawless JRPG and the game to beat for game of the year as of now and it brings with it what Gibli does best, that sense of magic.

Quote:
from IGNs review
9.4
Gorgeous, lush graphics
+Wonderful, expertly written and performed soundtrack
+Excellent story that’s familiar, yet markedly uniquel
+Engrossing battle system that takes influence from two great JRPG series
+Requires at least 40 hours to beat, and perhaps twice that to do everything


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Nocturne123



Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:53 am Reply with quote
I don't even particularly want Ni no Kuni, but I want to support Jrpg's in general so I picked it up with the strategy guide.

Granted the only reason I don't care for it is because of Ghibli. I just don't care for the art style
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:31 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
I think what's generally holding Tales back in the West, as opposed to Final Fantasy, is that Tales charas gotta act less like middle schoolers and more like high schoolers or above. In the West, they like their protagonists stronger emotionally independent - those are the types they can identify with


Most western protagonists don't have any kind of personality; at least if we're talking about RPGs. It's all about the player's decision; so they tend to be blank slates and up to the player to decide, so I find that reasoning untrue. What holds Tales back is basically two things: lack of name recognition (Final Fantasy has this in America, Tales doesn't) and the fact it's far more anime-like than Final Fantasy is (which uses a CG/more realistic graphic style). It's no real secret most big gaming sites and the average American gamer dislike anime art and anything remotely Japaneseish this generation. It didn't always used to be like that back in the PSX and PS2 days, but this generation, with the advent of the Wii, motion controls, and console shooters, ushered in a lot more people into video games. New types of people ranging from frat boys to casual older people. The kind of people who weren't into games until now and shifted the market demographic.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2387
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:44 am Reply with quote
~~EpiC~~ wrote:
positive review


I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing the game to be bad. I was just explaining what I felt in relation to TitanXL's experience to try and narrow down the meaning of "nothing revolutionary."
What you said is exactly how I feel about the game. And to be honest, what I said before is the only real complaint I have about the game. The game makes up for that and way more with every other aspect of it, and I definitely would give it a 9, 9.5, or even a 10 in the end because it is so breathtaking. Ghibli fan or not, the experience of playing this game is one to never be forgotten. It was new territory for Ghibli, and yet it worked out so well...
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14766
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:29 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
I think what's generally holding Tales back in the West, as opposed to Final Fantasy, is that Tales charas gotta act less like middle schoolers and more like high schoolers or above. In the West, they like their protagonists stronger emotionally independent - those are the types they can identify with


Most western protagonists don't have any kind of personality; at least if we're talking about RPGs. It's all about the player's decision; so they tend to be blank slates and up to the player to decide, so I find that reasoning untrue.


There I was more comparing Tales to Final Fantasy. Though that's still true: Westerners tend to prefer creating their own characters (ergo blank slate) as opposed to stories being told to them - harkens all the way back to the 80's even before J-RPGs existed, such as Ultima and King's Quest where you create your own characters/party (even the first FF had that party creation).


TitanXL wrote:

What holds Tales back is basically two things: lack of name recognition (Final Fantasy has this in America, Tales doesn't) and the fact it's far more anime-like than Final Fantasy is (which uses a CG/more realistic graphic style). It's no real secret most big gaming sites and the average American gamer dislike anime art and anything remotely Japaneseish this generation. It didn't always used to be like that back in the PSX and PS2 days, but this generation, with the advent of the Wii, motion controls, and console shooters, ushered in a lot more people into video games. New types of people ranging from frat boys to casual older people. The kind of people who weren't into games until now and shifted the market demographic.


Yeah, those too. Plus, back then, Japan dominated the console markets, so what worked in Japan were automatically deemed would work for the rest of the console world, so the world didn't really had much of a choice. Yet that also goes back to what I mentioned earlier - the anime-ish looks do contribute to the younger-acting persona of the charas, when Westerners prefer older-acting ones.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1762
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:40 am Reply with quote
Palm to face. The reaction to the dead island thing is a classic example of people bandwagoning so they dont end up that odd man out. I can honestly say not a single person here has actually played dead island. Its a game that takes place on a beach resort where 1/4 of it has bikini and beach clad zombies roaming around the place. I dont know why they choose this statute, but its not a representation of violence again women, its probably supposed to be a zombie torso. Dont know why they did not just make a figurine instead of this, but I seriously dont think most rationale people would be offended.

And for the record horror is an extremely, extremely popular genre. People collect anything they can related to it, for those of you who have seen Sankrea you know what I mean. And there are plenty of people who enjoy this particular hobby that would be fine with this. Honestly, you people need to grow up. Its a collectable anyway, 70-90 percent of the people who buy this wont even open up the package, and will display the whole box as a set. I think very few would actually plop this down on their coffee table, but if they did so what. Only digusting thing are some of the ignorant comments flowing on this message.

You do realize many people, in fact many in Japan find anime in general to be disgusting, and look at people who like the stuff as mentally deficient man children and degenerates. Draw the line? What kind of nonsense is that, we are not talking about some physical harm to anyone, or saying this is okay for little kids. Its a company selling a cheap plastic toy to people over 18. Why dont we draw the line at anime should not be watched or targeted to anyone over 10 years old. That would either shut the lot of you up, or you would come up with some paper thin excuse of "its not the same", so I am almost wasting my "breath" thinking I would get a rationale response here.


Regarding the Fire Emblem, its like many said not an XL, and you dont get a physical copy of the game. Honestly you are better of preordering a copy at gamestop where first editions get a few bonus items, and buying a separate ds. You can get a 3ds second hand for under a 100 bucks easily. Oh and if something happens to your system, you can play the game on your replacement.

What is the deal with phantom breaker? Is this game actually coming out here, or is it all but dead?

And looking forward to Ni no kuni, hopefully it does well and maybe Miyazaki might show enough interest to actually lend a hand to a future ghibli title.
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naninanino



Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 680
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:32 am Reply with quote
Finally, Ni no Kuni. I have it preordered already. Can't wait to play it. Hopefully it'll alleviate my sadness for losing Ayesha...
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:27 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
Palm to face. The reaction to the dead island thing is a classic example of people bandwagoning so they don't end up that odd man out. I can honestly say not a single person here has actually played dead island. Its a game that takes place on a beach resort where 1/4 of it has bikini and beach clad zombies roaming around the place. I don't know why they choose this statute, but its not a representation of violence again women, its probably supposed to be a zombie torso. don't know why they did not just make a figurine instead of this, but I seriously don't think most rationale people would be offended.

And for the record horror is an extremely, extremely popular genre. People collect anything they can related to it, for those of you who have seen Sankrea you know what I mean. And there are plenty of people who enjoy this particular hobby that would be fine with this. Honestly, you people need to grow up. Its a collectable anyway, 70-90 percent of the people who buy this wont even open up the package, and will display the whole box as a set. I think very few would actually plop this down on their coffee table, but if they did so what. Only digusting thing are some of the ignorant comments flowing on this message.


As a horror fan myself, I agree with you on this. When I saw this statue I thought it was funny, and was surprised to see people saying it was misogynistic. It's something of a horror movie trope for young sexy women to get torn to shreds by monsters (and guys too, it works both ways). This looks like the kind of decoration you'd see in a haunted house, or a collection of horror memorabilia. If they made a bust like this for something like MPD Psycho, that would seem kind of twisted --- but here, knowing it's for a zombie game, it just comes across as campy, B-movie stuff.
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TheZeonicFront



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:25 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
And fans like y'all are hyperdefensive because the sort of anime you tend to consume most is often ludicrously misogynist, and you don't want to be cast in that light, so you deny up and down that any of it is misogynist at all.

Seriously, the logical disconnect you have to make to think that your average harem and moe shows have zero elements of misogyny - or at the very least really primitive ideas about gender equality - is staggering.

Now, watching and enjoying that stuff doesn't make you a misogynist, it doesn't mean you hate women or have prehistoric attitudes about gender equality (although many of you do, which I know because you express said ideas in these forums all the time. Certainly not all of you, but my point stands). But the content itself can be pretty blatantly misogynistic. And you don't like being told that, so when critics like myself (or - gasp - the several women I employ to write about anime here) do so, you get upset. It's understandable, but the piling on in this thread is getting ridiculous.

Also, the "this thing is really gross and sexist, don't ever call anything slightly less gross and sexist gross and sexist" is a pretty dumb line of logic. I get that you don't want to hear it, but I'm not going to tell Todd not to say it.


Yes, thanks for proving my point exactly, which is, no one on this site has a clue what misogyny is.

HDN, and Mugen Souls to keep with those examples are juvenile, immature, pandering, and POSSIBLY sexist. Mugen Souls I would say is sexist, but having played HDN, the girls wear revealing outfits but there is nothing in their actions or the writing that comes off as sexist to me.

Having an ANIMATED girl in revealing clothing is NOT misogyny. Artists have been doing that for years. It is generally accepted the female body is a beautiful subject for artist. If you are going to say anime is misogynistic because the girls are almost nude, then be prepared to say the same thing for every work of art in human history that displays the female form in a nude or semi-nude state.

Misogyny is a term that should be used for the most hateful and violent depictions of women. I have been playing Corpse Party and while I think that it can sometimes be debatable if it is misogynistic, I decided to pick up the manga Corpse Party: Masamune thinking it was an adaptation of Corpse Party. hoo boy. That is misogyny. Only bad things happen to the girls, they are usually undressed before killed and implied raped and it's just disgusting. The author CLEARLY has some pent up feelings towards the fairer sex.

Crying misogyny over ever little thing deludes the original intent of the word for cases where it really needs to be applied, like this torso. With most anime say sexist, chauvinist, or disrespectful instead. But misogyny is hatred for women and hatred is a lot worse than simple disrespect.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:30 am Reply with quote
Maybe I'll give Ni no kuni a chance. I'm a huge JRPG fan but just something about it hasn't interested me... well, maybe I can use the money I saved from the Atelier Ayesha fiasco and put it towards Ni no Kuni.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:49 am Reply with quote
TheZeonicFront wrote:
Crying misogyny over ever little thing deludes the original intent of the word for cases where it really needs to be applied, like this torso.


But by your definition, how does misogyny apply to this torso then? I don't believe this bust was made with the intent of expressing any degree of hate-filled violence towards women at all --- it seems to be more of a horror-culture joke about a sexy/beautiful body being torn to shreds, like you see in so many campy zombie/monster movies. It's much more akin to sexy B-movie horror memorabilia, not an espousal of the glory of mutilating women. I doubt if this was a male figure that people would be calling it misandry, because that element of hatred towards a specific gender wouldn't be there, the same way it doesn't seem to be here.
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