Forum - View topicINTEREST: Japanese Journalist Proposes International Edit for Ghibli's Latest Film
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Cyberphobe
Posts: 194 |
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As far as naked breasts are concerned that's nothing new here in the states so that will be fine, but about the child nudity as long as the kids are not in a sexually obscene situation (i.e. pornography) it's fine. DON'T CENSOR ART!
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Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
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The fact that people don't understand the difference between fanservice and nudity is just really sad.
I object to fanservice because it objectifies women. I am not against nudity in public bath scenes, breastfeeding, or heck even sex scenes. You can have nudity without being objectifying. And once again "fanservice"is not part of the Japanese culture. Anyways I was in Japan last week but chose not to see Kaguya Hime because I wanted to wait for subtitles so I can better appreciate it. I hope that wasn't the wrong decision and this won't be another Only Yesterday situation with it not being released here. At least I am sure it will be at some upcoming film festival in NY or Philadelphia. I don't know how the film is doing in Japan, but the merchandise displays always seemed to have a lot of people by them, at least from what I observed. |
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Leebo
Posts: 660 Location: Somerville, MA |
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It doesn't sound like any of the nudity in this will be fanservice or sexual. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14766 |
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America loves sex 'n violence. Heck, they kept it in Oldboy and that guy who just died for the Fast and Furious franchise! It's just when it skews young that they get creeped out about it. Some of you may just not notice because you don't look for older women in US media.
So as long as this movie's art style doesn't emphasize young fanservice, it should be fine. Besides, it's not like the Japanese moviegoers are appreciating the art style all that much neither, so it must be inconsequential. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Oh please, I know plenty of Americans who have no issue with nudity or sex. It's sad that you're railing against and making blanket statements in regards to an entire national populace as being prejudiced when the very act of what you're doing is prejudiced in itself. Pot meet kettle. I'm sorry, I have no problem with nudity or sex scenes and what not and it isn't "the all enlightening influence of anime and Japanese culture" that is respsonsbile; geez, the elitism of some anime fans is just ridiculous. Get over yourself. Don't sit here and act all enlightened when your entire argument is based on prejudicial nationalistic blanket statements. It doesn't make you seem as enlightened as you think it does, as it's just thinly veiled bigotry. How you can possibly look at American media and think they're prudes about sex is beyond me, just because a few vocal conservative groups constantly like to raise a stink about things. Sorry, but that doesn't represent the national voice. In fact, no one represents the national voice because it's made up of individuals and not some great American hivemind. Seriously, do people even think about the prejudices they choose to adopt anymore? It's just sad.
And you're attacking and judging an entire nation of over 300 million because it happens to have some vocal groups that oppose sex and nudity, in spite of media that is fully of the stuff. So really, who should be embarrassed again? |
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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Ghibli no-cuts aside, the journalist thought the Strange Inscrutable West would never allow "artistic swimming nudity, waist-up half-nudity or nursing babies" in their films: Guess what, Akihiko: You CAN show those in the West, under tasteful conditions. Somebody doesn't get out much. (Now, as to whether in North America we ever saw Lil' Gokuu, Nobita or Tetsuro's 9-yo. peas-and-carrots when they came out of the bathtub, that's quite another cultural matter...But if they don't HAVE anything above the waist yet, you can show it.) And speaking of international misunderstanding:
A) Islamic countries don't go to see movies anyway, as movies are "decadent", and B) Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle did just fine in the US with a PG. (Had to look up IMDB to see whether Arietty had one.) Chill. |
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Adamb15
Posts: 115 |
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Edited with more data.
Congrats so do I. But I also know plenty of people who do take issue with sex and nudity. Somehow you think I'm railing on America. I'm not. America is a country with ups and downs. American attitudes are not bad or good, they just ARE. But hey, if you're going to accuse me of being elitist then I'll fill the role for you. I'm not acting, I really am enlightened. I'm Jesus Christ's second coming. Just kidding. The national voice is not made up of some great American hivemind. It's also not made up of individuals. It's a hybrid of the two; individuals who agree on a point and vote, and speak, and think similarly on that point while those who disagree do it in quiet voices or when they are in a position to not receive any real-world social punishments for their ideals, such as right here. Democracy. You talked about vocal minorites. When those vocal groups influence the entertainment, as well as the political powers-that-be who happen to be connected to the owners of the corporations that broadcast the entertainment, market the entertainment, and hire the creative staff to make the entertainment, they effectively SHAPE the entertainment. 1. They effectively shape the entertainment. 2. There is nowhere near as much effort going into the counteraction. 3. Media and entertainment are given to kids in their developing years, when they absorb the most knowledge.
So if these people are shaping the entertainment, and the entertainment shapes the kids, and the kids grow up to fund the production of the entertainment which continues in a cycle over and over and over that reinforces itself with (I don't want to quantify this) maybe 15-30% of the energy going against it, then yeah, our 'Voice' is basically represented by them.
Now, you seem to think I'm exactly like Shiratori, or a hater of American culture, or a hypocrite who views sex in the media as in a repressed state but am not comfortable with all artistic forms of sexual expression, or maybe even a dumbass who wants to run the streets naked without consequence, but you're wrong. I read actual data from actual surveys from the Pew foundation, Gallup, etc. and base my views off of the numbers. So they are NOT blind ignorant blanket-statements. What you say, with your references to people you know and attitudes that just you have observed are! You're taking what you've observed, and applying it to everyone. And as we both have now said, that's not ok.
So there's that. Here's more on how Americans are prudes:
And I didn't even make any moral judgements about what I've seen. In this post and my last all I've done is acknowledge what's right there! And yet you jump on me and and the executive editor jumps on Shiratori with personal insults and snide remarks.
See? I didn't even want to dig all of this up because like I said, we disagree, and it's time-consuming to actually put all of it together. But now it's there and I've got the mod and maybe even the executive editor pissed off, so let's just run the full nine yards, yeah?!
I've got objective data, what have you got?! |
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Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
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So where are ALL your articles that Japan is more enlightened about sex? Please show me your articles and results. |
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Adamb15
Posts: 115 |
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Please stop saying 'enlightened' because I'm not arguing morality, I'm arguing what the reality of the attitudes are. I don't care if the attitudes are right or wrong, just that they are accurately expressed. I thought the point we were talking about was that Americans were prudish. But hey, I'll go for this too. Here ya go.
Prostitution, or as close as you can possibly get:
That's pseudo legal and weakly prosecuted prostitution. It's very rare in the West, with Amsterdam having a street dedicated to it, and Nevada having a county or something where it's legal. Otherwise, nope, nada, zip. Fun facts:
"Love Joule," a bar. "Once they take a seat, customers are able to experience a pleasant place in which they can openly discuss masturbation... Behind the counter, where rows of liquor bottles would normally stand, are colorful display cases filled with dozens and dozens of different types of vibrators... And of course what woman can’t resist testing out a new vibrator or at least finding out about the one she may have recently overlooked during her last visit to the adult store?" From http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2012/10/love-joule-japanese-bar-devoted-to-female-masturbation/ Aaand of course there's Japanese pornography, which came about in the Edo period. Then there was an entire movement motivated by "Eroticism, decadence, and corruption." Japanese pornography has fetishes and weird and varied genres to hell and back. And of course they gave us lolicon, which is once in awhile reported on here when someone gets arrested for photographic CP and they tack on extra charges for the drawn stuff. Futa, lotion play, the famous tentacle rape, rope BDSM, and bukkake, etc all came from Japan. So there ya go. They aren't more 'enlightened,' just more indulgent or accepting. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15311 |
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Now that I think about it, that child stripper scene in Bad Grandpa which they emphasized in the trailer creeps me out more than what I hear about Kaguya Hime.
Ericj:
They apparently see anime, though. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Because there's no crazy, right wing politicians in Japan right?
Just so you know, when you use the term "prudes" it becomes very difficult to take you seriously or believe you're just making some reasonable factual point as you claim. And it blatantly contradicts your claim that you're not talking about morality or what is right and wrong. That's like me saying "Japanese are smut peddling perverts but I'm not arguing morality or what's right and wrong, just what the reality of the attitudes are." It's a joke.
Shiratori is an [insult removed] who brings nothing to the table but a sneering air of self assured superiority. If you want to claim to have a real point I wouldn't hitch your wagon to him. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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How could you possibly misinterpret what I said this badly? Anime is drenched in sex most of the time. I didn't say that was a bad thing, and there are certainly plenty of shows produced every year that aren't, but if you go down the list, there are more shows being sold on sex appeal that aren't. I don't really think this is 1. controversial or 2. insulting to anyone at all. Just an observation based on watching this stuff for 15 years.
Is this the new thing, high-horsin' it every time you see someone get in a mild disagreement with someone while attempting to guilt or shame the side you don't agree with? Seems like it's going around a lot. Shiratori1 has a very, very, very long history of attacking people on these forums that disagree with his views on all matters related to fanservice shows and virtually anything that has to do with material aimed at the hardcore Japanese otaku market and I responded to him knowing that history. Be "embarrassed" for me all you like without knowing any of the context though broheim.
I have zero history of banning people for disagreeing with me. None whatsoever. It's a made-up thing people want to believe about me that isn't at all true, as has been proven over and over again, but who am I to stop you from presuming? |
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Marco Sensei
Posts: 7 |
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Wow...
Can everybody calm down a little bit ? Let's be pragmatic here, and go point by point. - Is the journalist idea a good idea ? Seriously ? No. - Why ? 1) because you should never censor that kind of art just for the reason your culture is different. Better be open minded about other culture point of view, and event like that you can say you don't agree... but at least you have to see the whole thing to tell that in the first place. That idea of censoring nudity for cultural reason BEFORE any complain also means that you think people can't be open minded and you fear exposing them to you point of view. And that is not a good thing. 2) If Disney could do that (and they don't), I'm pretty sure they'll go with the "soft" version of the movie for EVERYBODY. Why ? Because it's easier to deal with angry animation fans that angry families... They still really do fear some associations, and being sued by them. So giving the international market a "safe" version would be bad, because we won't get any other version that this one until it's up on DVD or BR... 3) Last and not least, it's bad for Animation business... REALLY bad. It's sefl-censorship, censoring anything that could offense anyone, or even a few bunch of nuts who can say it out loud... But before that really happen, before the film is done, right at the source. Once there was said that in the US, any film with smoking character would be PG13... Disney said at that time that they will stop including smoking character in their films altogether. When the Tokyo Ban on manga (mostly based on fan serv issue with young characters) tried to go national in Japan, some manga editor started to ask their mangaka to avoid depiction of school-life completely... So each time someone put a though limit, for good or bad reasons, there is also people who see getting rid of the "problem" at the source as the easiest and most economic solution. And that's not good for creativity or art. So theoretically (because it's not gonna happen anyway), when you get the big picture, I really think that censoring that kind of film for international release is a terrible idea. |
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Adamb15, you provided a lot of good data for your argument about American attitudes towards sex, but the articles regarding Japan are not equivalent. I'd be curious about how sex ed is handled in Japan, and if public opinions towards sex outside of marriage, say, are really statistically different now than they are elsewhere.
Putting that aside, when was the last time breastfeeding was depicted in American media? Breastfeeding in public, and heck, breastfeeding in general is a very contentious issue in the United States. Even though it is legal, many women feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in public, and there have been instances of women being kicked out of stores, restaurants and airplanes because of breastfeeding. It is simply not accepted or normalized, and I really can't recall an instance where it has been depicted on TV or in movies. Childbirth has been depicted more than breastfeeding. So it's more than likely that some people might be put off by breastfeeding in a movie (animated or otherwise) because they are simply not used to it and it makes them uncomfortable. |
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ReverseTitan
Posts: 109 Location: Hong Kong |
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@Adamb Never, use Britain as an example to prove anything against the US. Ever. Britain itself is a rather conservative country, run by conservatives. At least the States is run by a liberal in the form of Barack Obama. Censorship/sensitivity levels there can exceed the US in many ways. As I said before, a show for kids, Regular Show is censored. The US censored Regular Show, too, but Britain pretty much purges the show of its purpose, even though the show has virtually no objectionable content. Britain, at least England lacks sexual education as well. Britain as a whole is basically a wannabe America anyway. It's best not to use it as an example, since anything the US does stupidly/wrong, you can bet the UK will do it, just in lesser bursts. Same goes for Canada, since Canada is just America, with liberal fold and less intrusive.
Also, it's not like Japanese themselves don't have some conservative issues. CoughInfamousCEROZCough. A game for teens, which isn't THAT violent is rated CERO Z. Think about it. That's not to talk about their own games which they gut, while Europeans and Americans get a version that they don't even see. Final Fantasy XII, Metal Gear Rising, No More Heroes, Ninja Gaiden(Xbox). If Americans and by extension westerners are scared of sexual content, then Japanese are dead afraid of even the slightest bit of violence, which is odd, since the PG-12 movie has more gore than COD, yet COD gets slapped with CERO Zs, not to mention censored and the like, Uncharted actually gets part of the gameplay altered, which is really, really bad. See, it's not just the States. Japanese can be prudes TOO. Finally, it's not wise to use Japanese porn to prove your point, since that will bite you in the ass. Japanese porn, unlike US porn is CENSORED. It's not really porn in that regard. @Marco Sensei That should apply to Japan, too. Call of Duty, is SUPPOSED TO BE VIOLENT! What is the point of censoring a game BUILT ON VIOLENCE? If Persona 4 shouldn't be hit with Ms and shit for having sexual themes, COD should be rated CERO D, with all the blood intact. |
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