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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:11 am
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^
Except airsoft is not violent by any reasonable criteria, whereas ghouls ripping and biting chunks of flesh off their human victims is almost as extreme as it gets.
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 2611
Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:16 am
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Very true - airsoft in general isn't a violence issue. (Well, I have issues, but we covered that. ) It was the depiction of the girls' imaginations that made it cross the line for me, which was mentioned in the section dudebro quoted.
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dudebro
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 42
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:15 am
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Princess_Irene wrote: | You could read it that way. Or you could interpret it as Hope and I both find fantasy violence less unsettling than realistic violence. I can't speak for her, but that is absolutely the case for me. |
Sabagebu is a very silly comedy where girls play airsoft but imagine it's real, and the "deaths" and blood effects are goofy. Tokyo Ghoul is dead serious with very graphic violence, and disturbing content like cannibalizing corpses. Sabagebu's violence is far more fantastical than Tokyo Ghoul's.
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Rederoin
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:39 am
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dtm42 wrote: | ^
Except airsoft is not violent by any reasonable criteria, whereas ghouls ripping and biting chunks of flesh off their human victims is almost as extreme as it gets. |
c3-bu also got negative reviews because of the same reason this seasons airsoft anime.
Kinda silly if you ask me.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:00 am
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Those Sabagebu previews have been up for days now. If you wanted to launch some kind of attack on those two for having extremely mild negative opinions of the comedy violence in the show, you probably should've done it then.
Doing it this late smacks of "I'm bored, let's find something to attack the writers for".
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ChibiKangaroo
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:14 am
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dudebro wrote: |
Princess_Irene wrote: | You could read it that way. Or you could interpret it as Hope and I both find fantasy violence less unsettling than realistic violence. I can't speak for her, but that is absolutely the case for me. |
Sabagebu is a very silly comedy where girls play airsoft but imagine it's real, and the "deaths" and blood effects are goofy. Tokyo Ghoul is dead serious with very graphic violence, and disturbing content like cannibalizing corpses. Sabagebu's violence is far more fantastical than Tokyo Ghoul's. |
I'm not a big fan of Tokyo Ghoul, but I think you're reaching here. There are blatantly obvious reasons to be put off by the violence in Sabagebu, especially if it is being done in a totally irreverent manner. School shootings have been a major issue of late in the U.S. and the particulars of those events have been highly disturbing. Likewise, there has been other instances of non-stop gun violence in the U.S. that seems to get worse and worse every year. Just recently a man in Texas burst into the home of his ex-wife's sibling, tied up the parents and five children, and then shot all of them in the back of the head execution-style. This kind of stuff is everywhere in the U.S. right now. In that context, it doesn't surprise me at all to see people feeling a little strange around shows that depict kids blowing each other away with high powered guns (even if it is in their imagination). And I do think it is important to recognize that the previews seem to indicate that it's not just the subject matter, but also the way Sabagebu handles it that didn't work.
If you compare that to Tokyo Ghoul, again I think it is pretty obvious why you probably wouldn't have the same reaction. No modern society is in the middle of an epidemic of cannibalism or an outbreak of ghastly ghouls running around slaughtering the populace. The premise of the show is so outlandish and unrealistic that it is in no way relatable to our current status quo. There's no similar possibility of us feeling like the subject is being handled in a distasteful manner, and the material itself is already obscene anyway.
Like I said, I personally thought Tokyo Ghoul was not executed all that well. I think the MC's transformation was overblown. But the show didn't offend me anymore than any of the gazillion shows about teen vampires or werewolves.
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誤称
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 549
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:17 am
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Zac wrote: | Those Sabagebu previews have been up for days now. If you wanted to launch some kind of attack on those two for having extremely mild negative opinions of the comedy violence in the show, you probably should've done it then.
Doing it this late smacks of "I'm bored, let's find something to attack the writers for". |
I wasn't aware that there was a time limit. Can you expand upon this rule cause you know, discussion forums typically don't have them.
I know ANN is special.
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:17 am
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I understand but don't agree with the argument against the violence in Sabagebu, but I have to say that when Momoka shot Kaya right in the head a second after their "worthy foe" draw declaration was a golden moment for me. Actually, a previous commenter said that the show was about Momoka being a huge arsehole, and I think that's at least the best thing the show has going for it. Pre-emptively punching a totally unsuspecting Urara in the face was the other highlight of episode 2. I really hope she continues being a massive jerk and inflicting uncalled-for physical violence on the other girls.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:36 am
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Is no-one previewing Nobunaga Concerto? It's been out for a while now.
ChibiKangaroo wrote: | I'm not a big fan of Tokyo Ghoul, but I think you're reaching here. There are blatantly obvious reasons to be put off by the violence in Sabagebu, especially if it is being done in a totally irreverent manner. School shootings... |
Riiight, because students in an airsoft club engaging in a consensual and fun game of airsoft after school is totally like some deranged person bursting into a school (or home) with real weapons and live ammo and then proceeding to injure and kill their fellow students, none of which knew what was happening until it was too late.
Had the show been about an airsoft club who take pleasure at shooting unsuspecting students and/or members of the public, then you would have a point. But they don't, so you don't. Saying that the show treats airsoft violence irreverently is frankly ludicrous. It isn't violent in the first place (with respect to the guns) because you're not intending to hurt anyone but rather win a game. And there's nothing wrong with treating a game irreverently because hey, it's just a game. It's not like anyone is going to get shot for real.
The real problem is the girls' lack of eye protection. What is not a problem (because it straight-up doesn't exist) is some sort of message that the Japanese are sending to American kids that it is okay to shoot up your classroom in real life. That's just absurd.
ChibiKangaroo, if anyone is reaching here it is you.
Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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getchman
Space Cowboy
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9121
Location: Bedford, NH
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:38 am
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Zac wrote: |
Doing it this late smacks of "I'm bored, let's find something to attack the writers for". |
dudebro only joined two days ago. got a lot to catchup on
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:38 am
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誤称 wrote: |
Zac wrote: | Those Sabagebu previews have been up for days now. If you wanted to launch some kind of attack on those two for having extremely mild negative opinions of the comedy violence in the show, you probably should've done it then.
Doing it this late smacks of "I'm bored, let's find something to attack the writers for". |
I wasn't aware that there was a time limit. Can you expand upon this rule cause you know, discussion forums typically don't have them.
I know ANN is special. |
Thanks for the worthless snark but I suppose I was hoping that if the "DON'T EVER EVEN HINT AT HAVING A NEGATIVE REACTION TO GUN VIOLENCE IN ANIME EVER EVER EVER EVER" crowd was going to show up for Sabagebu they would've done it by now, especially given how mild the opinions offered were.
Doing it this late really does seem like "I'm bored, let's go on the warpath about it" to me.
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ChibiKangaroo
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:39 am
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dtm42 wrote: | Riiight, because students in an airsoft club engaging in a consensual and fun game of airsoft after school is totally like some deranged person bursting into a school (or home) with real weapons and live ammo and then proceeding to injure and kill their fellow students, none of which knew what was happening until it was too late.
Had the show been about an airsoft club who take pleasure at shooting unsuspecting students and/or members of the public, then you would have a point. But they don't, so you don't. Saying that the show treats airsoft violence irreverently is frankly ludicrous. It isn't violent in the first place (with respect to the guns) because you're not intending to hurt anyone but rather win a game. And there's nothing wrong with treating a game irreverently because hey, it's just a game. It's not like anyone is going to get shot for real.
The real problem is the girls' lack of eye protection. What is not a problem (because it straight-up doesn't exist) is some sort of message that the Japanese are sending to American kids that it is okay to shoot up your classroom in real life. That's just absurd.
ChibiKangaroo, if anyone is reaching here it is you. |
I thought it was pretty obvious that we were talking about the imaginary portions where the violence appears real. Your above commentary seems completely divorced from that. You are discussing a completely different subject matter than I am.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:57 am
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ChibiKangaroo wrote: | I thought it was pretty obvious that we were talking about the imaginary portions where the violence appears real. Your above commentary seems completely divorced from that. You are discussing a completely different subject matter than I am. |
And here I was thinking that we were talking about gun violence in general. Specifically, how the mere fact that the girls were shooting at one another with airsoft pellets made some people watching it uncomfortable and reminded them of school shootings and other acts of gun violence (like in Chicago recently). And don't forget, C3-bu also was savaged for having girls play airsoft and glofification of guns and it didn't even have the imaginary "violence" that Sabagebu! has. The issue that gets people's hackles up is not the violence on-screen but the mere fact that high-school-age teens are wielding realistic-looking weapons and pointing them at one another. Well, that and making guns cool.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:03 am
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Here's what we're not going to do: dictate to others what their emotional response to gun violence on screen is supposed to be. You can feel however you want about the depiction of gun violence in these shows, and so can they, and they're entitled to their reaction just like you are. They aren't telling you how to feel and it isn't OK for you to try and tell them how they're "supposed" to react.
This topic blows up like almost no other and I'm not interested in trying to contain that sort of wildfire now, especially since we'll be wrapped once I publish the last of the previews in a little bit.
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Plasmaeclipse
Joined: 11 Apr 2014
Posts: 153
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:09 pm
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dtm42 wrote: |
ChibiKangaroo wrote: | I thought it was pretty obvious that we were talking about the imaginary portions where the violence appears real. Your above commentary seems completely divorced from that. You are discussing a completely different subject matter than I am. |
And here I was thinking that we were talking about gun violence in general. Specifically, how the mere fact that the girls were shooting at one another with airsoft pellets made some people watching it uncomfortable and reminded them of school shootings and other acts of gun violence (like in Chicago recently). And don't forget, C3-bu also was savaged for having girls play airsoft and glofification of guns and it didn't even have the imaginary "violence" that Sabagebu! has. The issue that gets people's hackles up is not the violence on-screen but the mere fact that high-school-age teens are wielding realistic-looking weapons and pointing them at one another. Well, that and making guns cool. |
No I think the issue is more that these kind of shows come off as glorifying these kinds of war games violence. I'm pretty sure Hope has mentioned in a video she did on C-3 bu that she has either dealt with, or knew people who have had to deal with, gun violence. For someone like her (and anyone else who feels squeamish about gun violence) The mere idea of trying to glorify guns and make them cool in such a setting can be very uncomfortable. Frankly the way your playing off the issue sounds insensitive to people who have had to deal with gun violence and are sensitive to the issue. There are some people who just don't think guns are funny or cool.
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