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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 677

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:29 pm Reply with quote
I thought that this was the worst AX that I have ever gone to, and the worst anime convention I've ever attended. I say this after having gone to cons since 2008, and having attended many cons across the US.

The lines were horrible, even though I went as a Premier Fan. The stampede into the autograph area was a nightmare, and one that I had hoped AX would avoid at all costs after it happened in 2010. I gave up on autographs altogether after Friday, and after reading many posts both on their forum and Facebook, it sounds like it just got worse. I'm glad I skipped out on Saturday and Sunday's autographs. Still not sure why they chose to not only 1) Not allow Premier Fans access to the autograph area before the regular attendees and 2) Moved the autographs to another location. The exhibit hall was the best place to have the autographs, and giving PFs first access again would have eliminated a good portion of the stampede.

It's gotten to the point that I no longer want to go to AX. I don't want to deal with 85K people during my vacation. And there are so many other conventions that have lots of great Japanese guests that understand how to control their lines properly and don't require me to wait in the sun for hours on end just to pick up a badge.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:20 pm Reply with quote
While I will agree that anime 'cons have, in some respects, essentially just become big parties, as a somewhat older fan (I'm not entirely sure how old Justin is, but I believe I'm in his age range), I actually find that invigorating. I attended nearly all of Anime Central in Chicago this year, which from the sound of it is nowhere near AX's size but still probably the third-biggest in the country (unique attendance 29.7k, gate attendance over 81k), and what consistently amazed me was the energy level that you saw everywhere except in the panel discussions, where people were generally very respectful. That's not something you get at just about any other type of geek culture 'con; gaming conventions, for instance, are rather staid experiences by comparison. At least for me, the costumes - especially such a high percentage of attendees in costume - are a joy to marvel at, too. Of course, it doesn't hurt that these days Acen's staff seems to run a pretty tight ship, as the only organizational quibble I had involved something that the convention hall staff mandated rather than the convention staff.

Now, one thing that might make a difference for me is that trips to anime 'cons have always been solo excursions for me, so the boozing room parties have never been of my scene. But I had a great time this year and wouldn't hesitate to go back next year.
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Nemui_Nezumi



Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Posts: 343
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:38 am Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
I hear Spanish dubs tend to be a lot better than most English dubs in terms of execution, translation, directing, voice work, and lack of censorship, but I have a hard time believing some of those claims.


I don't know about -from Mexico/Latino America- spanish dubs, but I would say it's true with Spanish (from Spain) and also catalan

personally I didn't had any complain while watching the series when they were broadcasted on tv

though that could have changed, I don't know, it's been years since last time I heard anything in catalan/spanish...
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:44 am Reply with quote
IZFSLE wrote:
Other than that, I've never remembered any typos in the subs on a Funimation release. I think Clannad had a few typos for Sentai. And lastly, the $150 Gurren Lagann set from AoA is fraught with typos and awful translations. I was told AoA at least backs up their price with quality, but I guess I was misinformed.
Funimation's Ikki Tousen Xtreme Xecutor release is said to have various subtitle issues, and their Nou-Rin streaming subs are an absolute embarrassment. Sentai's subtitle issues pop up somewhat often, though they were reportedly worse when they were just emerging from the wreck of ADV. But are the typos and mistranslations in AoA's Gurren Lagann present in just the packaging, or in the subtitles as well? You'd think they could've just re-used Bandai's translations from the DVDs.

gloverrandal wrote:
I think it's fair to say American conventions are getting worse. I think it's mainly because they have shifted away from their purpose and are now essentially internet fandom conventions. My Little Pony, Homestuck, RWBY, Dr. Who, That Guy With the Glasses/YouTube reviewers and tons of other fandoms which have nothing to do with anime are present at conventions now. Conventions have been refitted to just be a catchall tumblr/Reddit convention for whatever is currently trendy on those social media sites. It has severely lowered the overall quality of the convention circuit.

I do agree that some drift has taken place, and there does seem to be an unfair expectation among congoers of "Sci-fi cons for sci-fi readers, comic cons for comic book/movie fans, gaming cons for gamers, Star Trek cons for Trekkies, pony cons for bronies, Dr. Who cons for Whovians, furry cons for furries, anime cons for everybody!" But being for everybody has its advantages, such as being able to attract younger, more diverse audiences, avoid over-insularity and stagnation, and maybe get a few nerds from other pop-culture spheres into anime.

But as someone with some influence over the programming of a certain small/midsize Midwestern con, I can say that we schedule things that our attendees want to see and that will fill seats. Dr. Who, for instance, has been identified as the most popular nerdy interest in our state, so we can't exactly not include it. RWBY is at least animesque, so it isn't being rejected so far. Homestuck I'm more reluctant about, but it's drawn good crowds at previous years' events. We actually have not gotten any pony submissions, and the chatter I hear indicates that MLP is on its way out. But people trying to become YouTube/Tumblr-famous by hosting self-promoting panels get rejected, and TGWTG and his ilk haven't really caught our attention.

While we/I have been trying to keep primarily to anime/manga/video games/tokusatsu/Japan/Japanese cultural topics, some representation of other fandoms helps up the energy level and grow our attendance more than our lower-population prairie region would otherwise allow. And that allows us to keep our finances healthy and provide a better convention experience overall.

Key wrote:
While I will agree that anime 'cons have, in some respects, essentially just become big parties, as a somewhat older fan (I'm not entirely sure how old Justin is, but I believe I'm in his age range), I actually find that invigorating. I attended nearly all of Anime Central in Chicago this year, which from the sound of it is nowhere near AX's size but still probably the third-biggest in the country (unique attendance 29.7k, gate attendance over 81k), and what consistently amazed me was the energy level that you saw everywhere except in the panel discussions, where people were generally very respectful.
I was actually at that con as well, and had much the same impression as someone closer to Key's age than the average congoer's. After my 9 hr 45 min reg line debacle in 2008, I'd stayed away for 6 years, but the reg lines and most other issues I'd had back then had mostly cleared up. While other content was present, there was never an hour where anime content was scarce, and I made it to plenty of panels, competed in some game shows, saw the Wake Up! Girls in the Hyatt breakfast buffet, found some OOP DVDs in the vendors' hall, and won some not-so-fabulous prizes. Thanks to the expanded panel space, the con didn't feel any more crowded than it did in '08, despite ~10,000 more people present. There were some issues and minor snafus with line layout/control, but nothing disastrous.

Quote:
Now, one thing that might make a difference for me is that trips to anime 'cons have always been solo excursions for me, so the boozing room parties have never been of my scene. But I had a great time this year and wouldn't hesitate to go back next year.

Though I hear that the staff wasn't really allowing boozing room parties, so I had to stick to the overpriced bar and clandestine drinks in convention space. But time, money, and roommate situations permitting, I wouldn't hesitate to return in 2015, either.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:47 am Reply with quote
I didn't go to AX this year and last year I went mainly for business related issues...

To be honest I think things haven't changed as much as people feel they have: rather, I think our own perspectives have changed over the years more. Sure the fandom has moved on to newer things, but the nature of cons as big parties has pretty much always been the case. It's just that it's hanging out in hotels playing Super Smash bros wii-u instead of super smash bros 64.

One thing that HAS changed is simply the scale and the number of people attending, and it's clearly reaching the breaking point of some organizations and venues.

I think what anime cons need is an entirely new model. The "everyone gets together in a convention center over a summer weekend" model has reached capacity in the biggest metropolitan areas.
Heck, a part of me wonders if something more like... a circus model could work? Like a travelling convention that sets up shop in cities a week at a time. Less focused on industry guests and announcements and more focused on having activities and events for the people in the area, concerts and cosplay shows/contests and generally being a cool place to hang out for a day while its in town.
And by having the staff be essentially full time and travelling WITH the con, you wouldn't have the unprofessionalism and inexperience that usually comes with it, plus with the longer opening periods and larger touring area you can keep per day attendance down to have it in smaller venues.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 785
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:11 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
While I will agree that anime 'cons have, in some respects, essentially just become big parties, as a somewhat older fan (I'm not entirely sure how old Justin is, but I believe I'm in his age range), I actually find that invigorating. I attended nearly all of Anime Central in Chicago this year, which from the sound of it is nowhere near AX's size but still probably the third-biggest in the country (unique attendance 29.7k, gate attendance over 81k), and what consistently amazed me was the energy level that you saw everywhere except in the panel discussions, where people were generally very respectful.

It's funny… I was griping with fellow Twitter friends / ACen attendees the week before AX about how AX gets all the good stuff, but after all the tales of misery that came out of AX, that ended my interest in flying to LA for an anime con real quick.

I would be interested to know the reactions of an AX attendee if they came to Chicago for ACen. The facility is well beyond what the con needs at 30K people, so it wasn't badly crowded anywhere. Busy, sure, but never to the point where you couldn't move or check out an artist table. Of course, the glorious thing is that ACen will mail you your pre-reg badge in advance, which is the best $2 you will ever spend.

They make mistakes too — they apparently couldn't wrangle separate lines (or sell tickets in advance) for a Final Fantasy concert, so they made would-be attendees for that wait in the rain with single-day badge buyers. Bad choice. Still, on the whole, really pleasant to deal with, and I'm 46 and therefore officially too old for this shit.

It's a pity, then, that I don't think ACen quite gets industry support commensurate with its size. Funimation had multiple panels, and Crunchyroll sponsored the Wake Up Girls! concert, but Sentai didn't even have a panel. Combined with ANN's focus on AX and Otakon (and sometimes Japan Expo), it feels like ACen gets overlooked for having nearly 30K attendees. Heck, this year ACen was the site of Viz's Sailor Moon announcements, and that might be the biggest announcement of 2014 so far.

(Also, confirming Key's speculation, animecons.com's list of 2013 attendance has ACen at #3, behind AX and Otakon and ahead of Anime North)
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IZFSLE



Joined: 28 May 2014
Posts: 53
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:43 am Reply with quote
eternalblue81 wrote:
IZFSLE wrote:
That reminds me of my Sentai release of HenNeko. They blatantly got a character's name wrong on the back cover.


Sentai also misspelled the main character's name on the back case of Xam'd. It embarrasses me when I find such stupid errors on official products, but I guess they don't care since they seem to keep making the same mistakes.


It makes me feel weird as well. Having an official release with such a stupid error is not a comforting feeling for me. I know mistakes happen, and Sentai is constantly churning out shows, but still I'm not happy about the errors either way.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:41 pm Reply with quote
IZFSLE wrote:
Imo, Sakurasou had the most irritating cast of characters I've ever seen. It's amazing I still saw that show through til the end. I don't know if the character department falls entirely on the director, though, but boy if it does I'll be wary of her from now on.

Unless they made some pretty huge changes, the characters come down to the original author.
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DragonSpikeXIII



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:04 pm Reply with quote
The packaging and subtitles mistakes mentioned got me wondering: was it any better or worse back in the VHS era or early 00's?
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Vapors



Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Posts: 138
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:45 am Reply with quote
Just curious, but after reading some of the bad that occurred (long waits in the sun, disorganized line management, late starting panels), I have to express some relief in not going, even though as the event was coming up, I was thinking how much I would regret not going. I have been meaning to go back ever since having a fun time during 2011, but it sounds like management of certain things has gotten worse, not better. Also, just curious, but anyone have any idea what led to this huge jump in attendance for 2014? Looking around, I see 2013 was estimated at around 60K while Justin guesses around 86,000 for 2014. That's a 40% jump! I mean, I don't have my pulse on which JP guests were super popular with anime fans in 2014, but did any of them really attract such huge numbers? On the English side, I know there was a lot of chatter for the English VAs from the old Sailor Moon dub, but is that enough to lead to that much of a spike? So what are some people's thoughts on that?
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ShaolinWolf



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:15 am Reply with quote
SynergyMan wrote:

Nope, that's wrong. Up until the late 70s, the first version outside the Japanese versions were always English dubs(of any kind). Speed Racer, Astro Boy and as of now, it's usually the American English dub that came out first. So actually dumbass, when it comes to ANIME, the English VAs have more experience. That's why I don't care about foreign opinions on American/Canadian dubs. They don't mean anything.

Please don't turn this into an anti-English dub tirade. I have never EVER seen other language dubs scrutinized in the same way as English dubs from the US/Canada. Why the hypocrisy and double standards? As someone who can understand Italian, I'm aware Italian dubs USED to be God, but there were also bad dubs. All language dubs are the same. No one set general standard can define them.


First, calm down. There's no need to resort to personal insults.

Second, I don't know anything about where anime got released first in the 70's --- nor do I see how it's relevant. Most of the English voice actors from that era only worked on a few anime; the United States has always had less anime on television than Latin America. Which carries over to my larger point: dubbing is simply a larger industry in Latin America. Just take a few minutes to look at http://es.doblaje.wikia.com and all the voice actors with numerous dubbing credits for both anime and live-action. The United States, as mainly an exporter of television, does not need a large dubbing industry, and so for many industry members it's a temporary, part-time gig.

Again, there are bad Spanish dubs -- and yes, the Cowboy Bebop English dub is great -- but overall, being able to choose (dub) voice acting as a viable, long-term profession makes a difference. As a result, there's a larger talent pool to choose from, and fewer instances of inexperienced ADR staff or voice actors working on an anime. (I wouldn't bring up DragonBall Z if I were you - the original Funi Dub had ADR staff and voice actors who were dubbing for the very first time. The Frieza Arc is practically unwatchable today.)


Last edited by ShaolinWolf on Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:42 am; edited 5 times in total
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kevinx59



Joined: 27 Jan 2012
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Location: In sunny California

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 am Reply with quote
Vapors wrote:
Also, just curious, but anyone have any idea what led to this huge jump in attendance for 2014? Looking around, I see 2013 was estimated at around 60K while Justin guesses around 86,000 for 2014. That's a 40% jump! I mean, I don't have my pulse on which JP guests were super popular with anime fans in 2014, but did any of them really attract such huge numbers? On the English side, I know there was a lot of chatter for the English VAs from the old Sailor Moon dub, but is that enough to lead to that much of a spike? So what are some people's thoughts on that?


There was the Kill la Kill event, which may have led to a large turnout. That said, I was also a bit surprised at just how large the turnout seemed to be this year. Maybe the free exhibit hall after 4. The guests, while cool, weren't really any bigger than those in the couple last years.
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irishninja



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:03 pm Reply with quote
IZFSLE wrote:
eternalblue81 wrote:
IZFSLE wrote:
That reminds me of my Sentai release of HenNeko. They blatantly got a character's name wrong on the back cover.


Sentai also misspelled the main character's name on the back case of Xam'd. It embarrasses me when I find such stupid errors on official products, but I guess they don't care since they seem to keep making the same mistakes.


It makes me feel weird as well. Having an official release with such a stupid error is not a comforting feeling for me. I know mistakes happen, and Sentai is constantly churning out shows, but still I'm not happy about the errors either way.


Mistakes happen and they are frustrating to consumers, but they are often more frustrating to the creators, who then have to hear about them repeatedly for years to come. Packaging mistakes are the most embarrassing, of course. I feel for their editor, assuming they have one (if not, mistakes make more sense and then I feel for the company that can't afford at least one copy-editing pass).

Character name errors are among the hardest things to find in text, especially in a language you aren't fluent in. There are tricks to use, of course, but even then an error can slip by, especially if the character's name is only mentioned once in a piece of text.

I definitely agree with Justin, though, when he said,

Quote:
It's the nature of things, and honestly I'd be a little more patient about it. Those guys work hard.
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SynergyMan



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:47 pm Reply with quote
ShaolinWolf wrote:
SynergyMan wrote:

Nope, that's wrong. Up until the late 70s, the first version outside the Japanese versions were always English dubs(of any kind). Speed Racer, Astro Boy and as of now, it's usually the American English dub that came out first. So actually dumbass, when it comes to ANIME, the English VAs have more experience. That's why I don't care about foreign opinions on American/Canadian dubs. They don't mean anything.

Please don't turn this into an anti-English dub tirade. I have never EVER seen other language dubs scrutinized in the same way as English dubs from the US/Canada. Why the hypocrisy and double standards? As someone who can understand Italian, I'm aware Italian dubs USED to be God, but there were also bad dubs. All language dubs are the same. No one set general standard can define them.


First, calm down. There's no need to resort to personal insults.

Second, I don't know anything about where anime got released first in the 70's --- nor do I see how it's relevant. Most of the English voice actors from that era only worked on a few anime; the United States has always had less anime on television than Latin America. Which carries over to my larger point: dubbing is simply a larger industry in Latin America. Just take a few minutes to look at http://es.doblaje.wikia.com and all the voice actors with numerous dubbing credits for both anime and live-action. The United States, as mainly an exporter of television, does not need a large dubbing industry, and so for many industry members it's a temporary, part-time gig.

Again, there are bad Spanish dubs -- and yes, the Cowboy Bebop English dub is great -- but overall, being able to choose (dub) voice acting as a viable, long-term profession makes a difference. As a result, there's a larger talent pool to choose from, and fewer instances of inexperienced ADR staff or voice actors working on an anime. (I wouldn't bring up DragonBall Z if I were you - the original Funi Dub had ADR staff and voice actors who were dubbing for the very first time. The Frieza Arc is practically unwatchable today.)


Americans don't care about live-action foreign dubs, nor do they care about non-Japanese foreign cartoons, so in that regard, you are correct. However, the fact remains that when it comes to anime the American industry has more experience than any other country not called Japan. Speed Racer was released the same year MachGoGoGo was. Astro Boy was released the same year Tetsuwan Atom was. It took longer for those anime to be released outside the US. Also, anime's been on TV here since the 60s. As obvious anime, it's been on TV since the mid 90s. Also, I never said the English dub of DBZ was good. I think it's crappy, so I agree. HOWEVER, I was saying the Spanish dub of DBZ has some censorship with certain names and has a few dub errors, despite being the creme de le creme of Latin-American Spanish dubs. Likewise our creme de le creme doesn't have a single name change, not even with Edward. Also that's only Latin America. Then you have Spain, which is another story. Old school Spain dubs were worse than Old school English dubs and it took YEARS for Spain dubs to become good. It wasn't until the 90s and 2000s that Spain improved.[/b]
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Polycell
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Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:29 am Reply with quote
Industry experience is nonsense; only the experience of the directors and the cast members matter and, as ShaolinWolf noted, the latter often has little with dubbing.
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