×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Knights of Sidonia


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:26 am Reply with quote
Quote:
fan service is limited to a couple of locker room scenes and a handful of other scenes where female characters are shown photosynthesizing while naked. While these show no actual frontal nudity, they combine with the graphic content to give the series a TV-MA rating.


Given the rating Netflix assigned and season delay it's a shame they couldn't use the final version. The locker scene did get some actual nudity for example: http://otakomu.jp/archives/102137.html

Also, FYI, quoted from CG supervisor and producer, there are about 20 new "cuts" or scenes per volume (see sample pic), focusing on "combat violence" and "sexy shots"
http://natalie.mu/comic/news/114315


Quote:
Casting choices are good and for the most part the actors provide a smooth and natural-sounding dub, though in a few places they conspicuously pause as if waiting for the subtitles to catch up. Given that this happens with even the most experienced voice actors, it suggests timing flaws at the directorial level and/or a hurried dub production in general.

This sounds like they were trying to do the dub without the final TV material in front of them. It reminds me of serious sync issues in the SF4 OVA dub, and the Kurokami dub. That's the first thing I noticed and was extremely distracting/annoying (though SF4 was worse than Kurokami)

It's always an issue with simul-dubs. Even if the Japanese process adds voices during or after animation, the timing and lip flaps (most importantly line/phrase start and end times) are always animated and timed for the original language, and the lines and timing can be tweaked. Getting off-sync from tweaked pauses, or shifting the timing of phrases, half a second here or half a second there between phrases, etc are VERY obvious and makes a dub look like a dubbed live action movie. Justin had discussed this (and verified my experience with Kurokami): animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2014-01-10

Quote:
As luck would have it, I worked on the simul-dub of Kurokami: The Animation. Boy, was that a break-neck insane schedule. I'm a little surprised we all survived.

There have been a few attempts at making a simultaneous dub of anime in the past, and it's really really hard. What happens is, early in the show, Japan will deliver the final animation really early, the dubbing studio will have plenty of time to rewrite for lip-flap, record the dub, and do the final mix. But as the show goes on, things almost always start falling more and more behind. Anime studios have a terrible track record of not finishing until the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND, often not finishing the final touches until hours before the show airs.

So what happens to the time in which the dubbing studio gets to do their work? It's not like the broadcast can be delayed, otherwise it won't be a simulcast anymore! So, the dub gets more and more rushed. Sometimes they have to dub to unfinished animation. (Does it match lip-flap? Who knows!) Sometimes sound effects and other things will get tweaked in Japan, but nobody will tell the US dub studio, resulting in audio being out of sync with the video! (see: Kite: Liberator) Japanese studios are simply not used to having their product handed off to someone else to finish, so they will habitually go right up to the line, and the dub studio is left scrambling trying to make insane deadlines.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rei Sentoki



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:53 am Reply with quote
The 3D CGI character animation was jerky and disconcerting. The story was okay. The setting was cool. The music was great.

And I really, really loved all the tactical displays.

Quote:
...certain characters being hundreds of years old (perhaps the reason why the female captain always wears a mask is to conceal that fact?)


Kobayashi wasn't wearing a mask when she was starkers later in the series. And didn't look much the centenarian then, either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:22 am Reply with quote
^Well, if you could just switch your brain into an immortal clone body, wouldn't you? Best beauty regimen ever!

I'm surprised Theron didn't mention how very *harem* the show was. Every female character except Kobayashi, Mama Bear, and Head Mech Engineer, were part of Nagate's harem and basically spent all their free time pining after him and fighting over him. The most frustrating of this problem was Izana, who for all intents and purposes acted like a girl. Not a realistic one, either. She is a "childhood friend of the harem" trope through and through. Why even bother making a the cool new concept of "3rd Gender" if you're just going to use the character as a harem trope? They didn't even try to mitigate it in the dubs--Izana sounded distinctly feminine in the English and Spanish dubs, which was a bit disappointing.

But harem antics aside (even I'll admit that at least one harem related scene was funny), this show is excellent. I agree that it's more about hard scifi than about mecha, and the details of living and fighting on a ship when aliens are targeting you are very well fleshed out. And the animation wasn't perfect, but the soundtrack definitely was! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stretch2424



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 166
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:01 am Reply with quote
Knights of Sidonia was without doubt my favorite series of the Spring season. If it re-employed old mecha stereotypes, I think it did so in a skillful and effective manner--it chose the best stereotypes and carefully remixed them, thus creating an engaging and fascinating story. Whereas numerous anime are so borderline that I can't help looking at the timer and wishing they were over, Sidonia was the sort of show in which episodes flew by and seemed to last only 15 minutes or so. This was the sort of show from which I got a distinct thrill every now and then--that doesn't happen often. Perhaps one reason I like this show is because I like Tanikaze. Usually, he's a shy, almost goofy sort of guy, but in battle he becomes grim and determined. He's gradually learning all sorts of things about why the important people in Sidonia take an interest in him. In general, he has both strengths and weaknesses, and acts in a realistic way which we can identify with. The wild, exciting, Star Wars-like battle in episode twelve, and the wrap-ups afterwardsspoiler[ (like Tanikaze going to see the man who betrayed him)] left me in awe of Sidonia as a whole. Damn, that was a cool show--a work of literature converted into animation, not the usual mass-produced anime fare. This is what makes watching the first episode of almost every new anime at the start of a season worthwhile, because now and then a show of this caliber will come along.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
StormVanguard



Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Jesus, not one mention of the Muv-Luv visual novel trilogy.. guess i gotta be that guy.
ocfilms wrote:
Did anyone else get the vibe that this pulled a lot from attack on Titan and might have been made or distributed based off of its sucess.? A lot of similarities in stories and elements used (last group of humans forced to fight in military society, a monstrous race of bad guys that reappear out of nowhere, some strange genetic link/play between humans and monsters, young cadets forced to bece new pilots,etc)


Well even though you're very far off you're also warm in a sense.
Isayama Hajime was inspired by Muv-Luv actually and while Attack on Titan has more than several areas that give you a distinct feeling of deja vu Knights of Sidonia is on a completely different level of "similarity."

I'm pretty much convinced after the latest events in Kos that Nihei Tsutomu borrows quite a few ideas from Muv-Luv however, he does a damn good job at hiding it and making something his own unlike Isayama Hajime. Don't get me wrong i like all three authors but Isayama's not very good at hiding the facts and keeping things original. Nihei Tsutomu however is one of my favorite author's.


Last edited by StormVanguard on Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AnimeKnight2034



Joined: 07 Jan 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:26 pm Reply with quote
Good review Theron. Haters gonna be haters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Director-Beck





PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
As for the show, I kinda saw it as Attack on Titan with giant robots. Huge inhumanoid abominations that only have one weakness against a seemingly outgunned human armed force saved by the arrival of a newcomer.

Quoting because this is actually something you should have noticed if you watched the show. Because F.Y.I Attack on Titan was (more than likely) heavily influenced by Knights of Sidonia. I say this mainly because the Sidonia manga came before the AoT manga and because Isayama is confirmed to be a REALLY big Nehei fan. Also, considering all of the similarities in plot using the whole "different genre" thing wouldn't feel like a satisfactory excuse, since, as I like to put it "AoT is fantasy Sidonia".

As for other comparisons, there are definitely a lot of Visual homages to Eva, and even then most of those aren't until later parts of the manga spoiler[mainly when the Chimeras become a thing], which weren't in this season . as for story I don't really see it there aside from it being a mech anime, and having the mecha anime tropes that are unavoidable, like having a mech. I won't claim to know enough about Macross to claim that there aren't similarities, but given I haven't seen anything specific from anyone's criticisms, I have my doubts.

I'm really against the C+ story rating considering that Attack on Titan, which as we've been over is (more likely than not) inspired by Sidonia, and as such has an incredibly similar story in a fantasy setting (This of course can be attributed to the fact different people reviewed them, but I don't really take that as a good enough excuse). If you boil Sidonia down to it's most basic story elements of course it's going to sound generic, anything does if you take away the story elements that make it unique. One major thing is accusations that Tanikaze is Gary-stu-ish, yes he's a very good pilot, but there's a reason for that and he is not without his flaws. The main thing I want to note with Tanikaze is that he spent the majority of his life doing nothing but training to pilot a Garde, this sets him apart from other Mech pilots who are "gifted" Tanikaze isn't gifted, he's just had fourteen times as much training as every other pilot Sidonia has. Also, if you should make note that Tanikaze trained on a simulator for an older model, and when he attempts to use one for a newer model he ranks really low for someone of his skill, if he were to pilot an actual Type-18 Garde I figure he'd fair as well if not worse than the other pilot. If we look away from Tanikaze as a pilot though we see his real flaws, his people skills, that is, he has none. His major lack of defining personality or identity, his horrendously awkward and oblivious interactions with the other people on the ship showed what his years of isolation had done to his social skills, more than likely his grandfather taught him little more than how to speak when it came to communication, as training Tanikaze to kill Gauna was top priority. This combined with not being photosynthetic like most of Sidonia's inhabitants, and his being an outcast because of his origins, makes Tanikaze one of the most (intentionally) socially inept Mecha characters that I can thin of.

As for other characters in the show I can see how they would blend into one another, aside from the Honoka sister's lighter hair everyone has really similar hair color and arguably similar hair styles, and I will admit it gets difficult to tell them apart at points, so there is no fault in getting the characters confused based on design, in terms of personality the adaption hasn't yet reached the point in the manga where everyone is at the best parts of their developments, and there are points where characters will act in similar ways, but I never felt like the characters were bland, unentertaining, or all too generic.

The story is about humanity barely lingering by a thread against a near indomitable enemy. If Tanikaze were to die Sidonia as a whole would be doomed spoiler[and then you realize the immortal counsel WANTS him dead.] If you look at Eva the Angels are dispatched relatively easy in comparison, I'm not saying the fights were ever easy, but thank god they weren't as hard as Gauna battles, we'd have an Eva-408 if that were the case. Sidonia doesn't give you time to get to know the characters who die, it doesn't try and fake you out and give you shock deaths, the people who died were faceless, nameless, and numerous, just like deaths in a real war, you don't get to know every soldier who fought. Instead of getting you attached to characters and killing them spoiler[OKAY there are exceptions, but for the most part Sidonia doesn't TRY to do this.] Sidonia keeps it simple and keeps your core cast safe so that they can develop and we can grow properly attached to them, and unlike other shows that keep characters safe for no reason most of Sidonia's surviving cast survives for reasons, such as
Tanikaze - Has trained for over a decade
Kunato - spoiler[Quits after barely any missions]
Izana - Isn't an official pilot until near the end
Midorikawa - spoiler[Is promoted to a bridge position instead of being a pilot]

Even though the deaths in the show are numerous and mostly nameless we see people die from things that aren't Gauna related, and not like that one nameless guy in AoT [spoiler]who shot himself in the mouth[\spoiler], no, we see people die from a shift in gravity due to the ship changing course rapidly, we see A LOT of people die this way, and that scene was really critical in establishing not only who hard the show is trying to maintain a semblance of realism, but it had a big impact, just from the Gauna moving towards the ship hundreds of people died. It helped establish how big of a threat the Gauna are, which, by the way, is what we will talk about next.

The Gauna are probably my favorite story element, not because of the mystery behind them, honestly I could care less if we got an answer as to their origins, no, I love the Gauna because they are NIGHTMARE fuel. Taking them in comparison to something like the Titans (are you sick of the AoT comparisons yet?) the Gauna are horrifying, they don't have the almost human look that makes Titans as unsettling as they are, but what the Gauna have is unpredictability,they have regenerative abilities, they can take on the appearance of humans, they can reverse engineer technology out of biomass, they can [spoiler]engulf a dwarf planet and use it as a giant battering ram, and they can recreate an entire human, the robot she pilots, AND all of her tactical knowledge.[spoiler] the Gauna are even attracted to the only known weapon spoiler[sans the Chimeras because the anime isn't there yet] that can kill them, leading some on Sidonia to believe the Gauna only attack because they posses such weapons.

I feel like the absolute core of Sidonia's story is generic, but that's near unavoidable, it's everything around that core that makes Sidonia so great, and the only part of Sidonia I would describe as "made up of parts from other Mecha shows" is the Gardes, because they were designed by kitbashing a bunch of model kits together until Nihei had a design he was satisfied with.

Also, two things on Lala
1. You're questioning a talking bear in a show with Giant Mechs, space travel, immortality, cloning, a third biological gender, and shapeshifting hell beast from space?
and 2. It's a Nihei thing, if it's anything special it's a homage to Biomega.

As for the other elements of the review I don't find them egregious enough to rant about them. To be honest, I want to see more of Theron's reviews to see if Sidonia just isn't to their taste or something.
Back to top
animemaster1



Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Beverly Hills
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:56 pm Reply with quote
Did you really give the story a C+? You have to be crazy not to give it an A at least. No if, ands, or buts about it. Hands down, this is one of the best anime's to come out recently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Director-Beck wrote:

Also, two things on Lala
1. You're questioning a talking bear in a show with Giant Mechs, space travel, immortality, cloning, a third biological gender, and shapeshifting hell beast from space?
and 2. It's a Nihei thing, if it's anything special it's a homage to Biomega.


The fact that it takes place in space makes Lala stand out even more since there are no other mammals on Sidonia! They can barely afford to feed humans, how can they afford a bear? Guess that's why she's always cooking! Razz

I know, it's a Nihei thing.

The connections between Knights of Sidonia and Attack on Titan are interesting. The first thing that tipped me off was that the Gauna attacked after 100 years of peace. It makes a big difference to know that Isayama was inspired by Nihei.

I do think AoT handles character death better, though. If a story follows a soldier, the audience should really feel it when the soldier's comrades die. Obvious death flags and killing nameless characters don't work well towards that goal. Although at this point I think the core casts of both shows/manga feel "safe", for the most part.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Director-Beck





PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:

The fact that it takes place in space makes Lala stand out even more since there are no other mammals on Sidonia! They can barely afford to feed humans, how can they afford a bear?

I do think AoT handles character death better, though. If a story follows a soldier, the audience should really feel it when the soldier's comrades die. Obvious death flags and killing nameless characters don't work well towards that goal. Although at this point I think the core casts of both shows/manga feel "safe", for the most part.


That does make sense! Though, I don't recall if food is STILL an issue on Sidonia spoiler[They mostly developed photosynthesis to better prepare themselves for rapid repopulation after Ochiai fucked up] But I suppose she got there the same way all the fish did? Haha.

I will give that too you up to a point, after a while though it felt like AoT was just trying to shock the viewers with deaths, rather than having them be meaningful events. I'd say after episode 5 or 6 I started to just shrug off anyone who got introduced. But then again that's just me.
Back to top
SynergyMan



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:09 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
This sounds like they were trying to do the dub without the final TV material in front of them. It reminds me of serious sync issues in the SF4 OVA dub, and the Kurokami dub. That's the first thing I noticed and was extremely distracting/annoying (though SF4 was worse than Kurokami)

It's always an issue with simul-dubs. Even if the Japanese process adds voices during or after animation, the timing and lip flaps (most importantly line/phrase start and end times) are always animated and timed for the original language, and the lines and timing can be tweaked. Getting off-sync from tweaked pauses, or shifting the timing of phrases, half a second here or half a second there between phrases, etc are VERY obvious and makes a dub look like a dubbed live action movie. Justin had discussed this (and verified my experience with Kurokami):


The English, Japanese and Korean versions of Kurokami weren't dubs. They were recorded to pencil tests before the animation was 100% done. Also, you may not know this, but almost no anime has good Japanese lip syncing(or any lip syncing), due to the misconception that proper lip syncing takes a long time to do. If anything, the majority of modern dubs have better matching(not acting, but matching) than the Japanese versions, because the Japanese stupidly think that lip syncing isn't important. Also, Gundam Unicorn was done the same way, yet its English version is awesome and has better mouth matching than the Japanese version, with almost no awkward pauses. A grade stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
#820119



Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:28 am Reply with quote
Good Morning Afternoon Day Evening Night Everybuddy reading this. I just spent the past hour reading the review and everyone's comments/posts. First time creating a ANN account, and I should sooooo be sleeping right now... I finished Knights of Sidonia in three sittings earlier today in under 14hours, two episodes then the next seven then the last three.

Anyway...
I enjoyed everybuddies post as well as the review. And figure I give some of my thoughts on what some of you were going back and forth about when it comes to references/similiarities, & I just enjoy 'throwing more flamible objects into the fire'.

When it comes to MY THOUGHT PROCESS, in the Neon Genesis Evangelion area / Knights of Sidonia area...The gauna being killed by a specific spear like weapon(think it was a three letter word that started with E) = Lucifer(the one with the seven eye 'face') that was impelled by the lance of longinus(may have mis spelled this word). So yeah... while watching KoS, and seeing the gauna get killed by a specific only spear/material, made me think of lucifer being impelled by the lance of longinus in NGE.

As for the part of the garde units clasping up together, and going faster than anyone unit. I thought of it this way... 4 horse power goes 4 speed and 256 horse power goes 256 speed. For some reason, even in real life, put all those 256 horses together, they move a whole lot faster and cover more distance than the sqaud of 4 horses.

Then again, this is my thought process of reading all your posts at one in the morning, and like the others 'having somthing to do', I have sleep to do. I figure I finally create an Anime News Network account and post my first post at this odd hour, on an anime series (currently 12 episodes) that I just watched, and enjoyed. Sure the cg/character movements were a bit gitty, but when it comes to telling characters apart, did ANYBUDDY ELSE NOTICE THOSE NAME TAGS WITH DIFFERENT NUMBERS? Sure, if the hair could not help, or the outfit, or the face, or the body, that little detail of a badge, helped me tell some characters apart from others. And I loved the wear and tear detail to outfits/structures/gardes. & random, I had a lol moment when Nagate face got 'elbowed/punched' in the dark.

All and all, thanks for this experience, hope you enjoyed my read, my first post, won't be my last, and I did not create a username/nickname yet, cause I wanted to post this post first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:30 am Reply with quote
I have to disagree with you on the visuals. I think the semi-3D thing that they have going on looks awkward as all hell. I don't know how people can say the Sailor Moon transformation thing looks bad while saying this looks good. I don't think it looks flat out terrible, or maybe even bad, but I do feel it's at least a bit off-putting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EyeOfPain



Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 312
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:00 am Reply with quote
#820119 wrote:
When it comes to MY THOUGHT PROCESS, in the Neon Genesis Evangelion area / Knights of Sidonia area...The gauna being killed by a specific spear like weapon(think it was a three letter word that started with E) = Lucifer(the one with the seven eye 'face') that was impelled by the lance of longinus(may have mis spelled this word). So yeah... while watching KoS, and seeing the gauna get killed by a specific only spear/material, made me think of lucifer being impelled by the lance of longinus in NGE.

spoiler[The Angel inside Terminal Dogma is Lilith, not Lucifer. I don't think there was even an Angel named "Lucifer" in Evangelion.]

The spear in Sidonia is a Kabizashi, and the Gauna are surrounded by Ena.

EnigmaticSky wrote:
I have to disagree with you on the visuals. I think the semi-3D thing that they have going on looks awkward as all hell. I don't know how people can say the Sailor Moon transformation thing looks bad while saying this looks good. I don't think it looks flat out terrible, or maybe even bad, but I do feel it's at least a bit off-putting.

I think it's partially expectations. Sidonia is always CG, so you either get used to it after a couple episodes, or you don't. SMC is mostly flat animation, and then the transformation scene starts up, and it's a piece of janky 3D, when it should really be the highlight of the episode as far as animation goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:44 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
I'm not sure if it's the review or the show/manga, but that makes no sense (unless there's one unit with much higher trust power than the others). But if all the unit are the same, grouping up would not increase there trust since they all weight the same. If you apply a force on an object you'll get the same acceleration than applying twice the force on an object being twice as heavy, F=M*A and all (2*F=2*M*A, the 2 cancel and you're back to F=MA). They could get a range increase if there truster can only go at 0 or max speed, and by grouping up they only have one unit use it's booster at a time, but they'd accelerate way slower. I'm probably just reading it wrong thought.


You're quite correct about this. They could move further, albeit more slowly because they had so much more fuel. But they could not move faster if all suits were the same.

I thought Theron's review was quite correct. Here's where I disagree with him. In my eyes, most all mecha series are alike when it comes to basic details. What sets them apart (story-wise) are the details of the world around the characters, how well you can believe it and immerse yourself into it, and the skill with which it's brought to life. For me, KoS did this masterfully, to where I considered this hard SF more than mecha because the good parts overshadowed any derivative elements in my mind. The only false note to me was the bit above. So I'd give the story a B+.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group