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Jajanken
Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 680
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:45 pm
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Good talk
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Dessa
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:57 pm
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configspace wrote: | Don't you know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? It could very well be that the apple the snake offers in the garden is what saves us from an oppressive master. Besides, there's no such thing as true altruism anyways since everyone who wants to consciously do something, always does it in exchange for something else (and I don't mean money). There's always a selfish motivation for any supposed altruistic act; the exchange is of perceived spiritual value, or to satiate your own desires to "do good". And often, that pursuit of what they think of as doing good is what forms their own vision of justice, which would surely conflict with someone's else vision as well. |
You pretty much just 100% described the plot of Kamen Rider Gaim. I can't wait for the [real] finale on Saturday (Urobuchi didn't write 47, therefore 46 is the real finale).
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sainta
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 989
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:13 pm
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Just what I was waiting for. Nice to hear about his work in PsychoPass
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BillyMK
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 18
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:34 pm
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Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | I never liked how I heard he was basically overruled on what sounded like a way more sensible idea with the Madoka movie for a more shocking and twisting ending. |
What was that exactly? Do you have a link for that? I'm really curious.
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Juno016
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2387
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:18 pm
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BillyMK wrote: | What was that exactly? Do you have a link for that? I'm really curious. |
It was in the Rebellion theater movie brochure and he also mentioned it later in the BD release booklet, which was translated by Aniplex USA and included with the import version of the film. He said something along the lines of "I had an ending planned where Madoka brings Homura to her realm and the film was done. Shinbou and Iwakami repeatedly rejected my initial idea and we eventually came up with something different, based on a suggestion of Shinbou's. During the movie brochure, it was all we had to go on, so a lot of people thoght he meant it to be something like, "I wanted this ending, but Shinbou said no, so we changed it to one of his ideas instead." However, in the BD release booklet later on, he elaborated on what he said about the ending being his own creation and how he's actually more confident in it now than he was before. He's said this a few times in multiple interviews at this point. Shinbou gave him a concept suggestion and Urobuchi revised his "perfect" ending and the themes of the film to reflect Homura's imperfections.
I believe ANN's reviewer of the film (was it Key?) also caught onto this misconception and it influenced his/her review quite a bit. It's pretty unfortunate, but now that the film has had time to settle, much of the misconceptions have been debunked and the film has been seen in a much more positive, respected light. Not as much as the original series, but enough to be a proper part of the series. At least, from what I've seen.
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WatchforMoons7
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 529
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:34 pm
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If we're going to speak about altruism and how we use it, how it complicates our ideologies in good and evil, wouldn't Gaim have all we need to see?
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Akane the Catgirl
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 1091
Location: LA, Baby!
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:05 am
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First things first...
Yay! Hope Chapman quoted me! I'm so happy, guys!
dtm42 wrote: |
Akane the Catgirl wrote: | ^ ...
The point. You missed it. By a long shot.
Yes, I know you're talking about Sayaka's arc in Madoka Magica. |
Well you're wrong; I wasn't referring to Sayaka or her arc specifically. And you say I missed the point but in fact you missed my point.
Forget about this business of selfishness and selflessness; that's something you raised, and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. |
Heh, sorry. I already edited my first post to apologize for anything that came out as harsh or rude. It's just that when I see something I believe is inaccurate, I tend to get a bit aggressive in terms of defending. Let's be honest; we both tend to do that.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:41 am
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^
But you were getting angry at something I didn't even say.
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shiranehito
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 793
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:56 am
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Personally I like his style of right/wrong ambiguity. I really like his Saya no Uta and I believe it's his best work up until now. In Saya no Uta, I think there's no real "right" or "wrong". It's all just "I do what I think is right." And this concept seems to reoccur in Madoka, Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass. I found his characters rather easy to relate.
The statement of "good and evil need to be on even ground." I quite agree (even though, as I said, sometimes it's hard to tell which one is "good" and "evil" in his works).
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SquadmemberRitsu
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1391
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:18 am
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Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | I never liked how I heard he was basically overruled on what sounded like a way more sensible idea with the Madoka movie for a more shocking and twisting ending. |
You really should learn to check your facts. I've got the super special awesome limited edition Blu-ray thingy which came packaged with translated interviews with Urobuchi and other people who worked on the movie. Many of which directly contradict many misguided opinions on the movie.
First off I should make it known that he was not 'overruled'. Nothing like that ever happened and whoever told you that in the first place is a liar. It was Urobuchi's decision, not anyone else's, that the original way he was going to end it would not be 'sensible' because, despite how some think Homura should have acted from their selective memory of the series, he felt it was inconsistent with Homura's actions in the series.
He willingly went to Shinbo for suggestions because he couldn't figure out a good way to end it. Shinbo gave his opinion and he ended up implementing a few of them in the actual ending. Apart from that little bit of guidance (Which basically just pointed him the right direction) everything was his decision. In fact, he mentioned in the same interview that he was worried Shaft wouldn't approve of it.
As for your other points I don't really see any reason for me to go into detail and tear apart every little thing you've said. But it seems like the problem here is that Urobuchi just isn't your cup of tea. If you're so disinterested in the basic idea of his stuff then what's the point of watching it in the first place? You sound like those people who watch K-ON and rant about how 'nothing happens'. I'm all for differing opinions but if you go into it with that sort of mindset all it's going to do is cloud your judgement and make it harder for people to take your opinion seriously.
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yoshiyukiblade
Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 305
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:09 am
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I noticed that a lot of his themes involve some kind of "dark" counterbalance for everything there is, whether it's the consequences of people's actions or norms that society constructed. "You can't have X without Y." It makes for a nice children's story, where there must be some kind of moral of the story or subtle social message, but it doesn't appeal to me most of the time. Years ago, I didn't even associate a name to the shows that exhibited this recurring theme. I eventually found he was involved in a lot them.
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asckj1
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 46
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:51 am
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Quote: | Sometimes when I see someone who's a spirit of justice… I feel like I want to destroy them! |
Did he just give out his trade secret !?
And good interview. Brief and to the point.
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jroa
Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 537
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:49 pm
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The questions that were asked are interesting and do tie into the themes of his recently famous works, but I hope that some day there will be an opportunity to ask a few more questions based on his older or lesser known works.
I realize that Saya no Uta was brought up, but mostly as an example of how sex scenes can include elements of horror. That said, I do imagine some people might find that attractive rather than repulsive. Fetishes are literally a Pandora's Box.
Maybe this is silly of me, but I did expect at least one question based on the upcoming Expelled From Paradise film, given that an image from it is being used to illustrate the article on the ANN homepage.
Despite this nitpicking or personal preferences of mine, I am still thankful for the interview.
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Jayhosh
Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 972
Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:01 pm
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Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | I've always found his contempt for altruism and justice to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard from a writer. It just feels very childish somehow and like he's trying to appeal to teens in their rebellious phase or something that feel they have to answer to nothing. I also have never really bought that he feels like putting good and evil on the same ground, it's more like he just refuses to have conclusive resolutions to the conflicts of good and evil entities.
I know it was probably a restricted question, but I would have loved it if the interviewer asked him why if he's such a superstar he refuses to actually commit to any anime project and finish what he's doing anymore. Anyway he strikes me as kind of a weird dude with mostly shock value and a few interesting recurring themes he likes to play around with so I have no idea why he's become such a superstar again considering he really doesn't contribute all that much to the industry these days. I guess anime really is just that badly in a rut when comes to personalities compared to say the video game industry so by comparison he stands out since he's willing to tackled some darker themes and typically doesn't completely shit the bed with them.
I would have also asked him if he ever feels like his name is put on something just to have it sell better and if he ever feels he's being treated as a commercial tool rather than a valued and key member of a writing team cause it sure looks that way these days. I never liked how I heard he was basically overruled on what sounded like a way more sensible idea with the Madoka movie for a more shocking and twisting ending. I get the sense he'd like to try some new ideas but isn't really being afforded the chance to because the powers that be want the easy money and will exploit his current brand popularity while it lasts to get it. |
God people like you really irritate me. Do you just have to hate on anything that's remotely popular? Geez, you can't get through one single ANN thread without seeing at least one snide and cynical comment berating the the vast majority majority of people that enjoy something. It's like they feed off of other's tears or something. There's a reason people like these people or shows, etc. You're just too ignorant and self indulgant to notice it. Seeing other people like something you don't must really eat you up inside. So you have to put down their tastes to make yourself feel higher up.
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Animerican14
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Saint Louis, MO
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:52 pm
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Hey another Gen Urobuchi interview! How many does this make for ANN now? Nice interview for the length that it was, though-- there were questions I definitely hadn't seen asked of Urobuchi before.
Juno016 wrote: |
BillyMK wrote: | What was that exactly? Do you have a link for that? I'm really curious. |
I believe ANN's reviewer of the film (was it Key?) also caught onto this misconception and it influenced his/her review quite a bit. It's pretty unfortunate, but now that the film has had time to settle, much of the misconceptions have been debunked and the film has been seen in a much more positive, respected light. Not as much as the original series, but enough to be a proper part of the series. At least, from what I've seen. |
The reviewer of Rebellion was actually JesuOtaku, but I'm not so sure that she would really see the film in a much more respected light. I haven't paid too much to the forums or her contributions here lately, being rather more attentive of her much shorter tweets, but-- and please point out to me if and how I'm wrong, since I did offer that disclaimer of my relative ignorance-- I'm getting the feeling JO hasn't at all raised or really adjusted her overall estimate of the film since her published review of it. Even after all the discussion in the review thread, I don't recall there big changes in people's attitudes toward the film from what their first impression of it was. When I asked Zac some weeks ago if there was ever going to be a podcast over the film, like I thought there was going to be, I think he said something along the lines of 'I think Hope said all that needed to be said about the film.' (Can't find that twitter exchange at the moment, sadly). There's a good chance that I may be misreading things-- and again, if I am, please show mercy and correct me-- but that communicated to me an almost dismissive attitude towards opinions that were, in any way, meaningfully contrary to the original review piece, no matter how calm or articulate counterpoints may have been. Again, I realize that may be a misread of what's happened, but that's my gut-recollection of it. I've been getting the feeling that some critics who continue to lavish Urobuchi with praise do so while pretending that Rebellion never existed or dismissing Rebellion as "lol just grim-dark sequel-bait whose only purpose was to make money." :/ My characterization is deliberately blunt and possibly exaggerated, I admit, so please be so kind as to enlighten me if/how I'm wrong in this viewpoint regarding some of today's perceptions regarding Rebellion.
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