Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World-
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Showsni
 Posts: 641 |
|
|||
|
Anyone else kind of get reminded of Jonah with the White Whale?
It was especially the part where Otto threw Subaru overboard.... For those not familiar with the story: God has a special task for Jonah to carry out, but instead Jonah runs away and boards a ship going in the opposite direction. A storm whips up, and the people on the ship decide the gods are angry with them, and they need to cast lots to find out who the guilty party is. The lots fall on Jonah, who tells them that he is disobeying his God, which is why the disaster has fallen on them, and that they should throw him overboard to save themselves. The sailors are loathe to kill a man and try their hardest to row for shore, but nothing works, so in the end they give in and throw Jonah overboard, where he is swallowed by a giant fish. Our story is kind of backwards, though. Subaru is also drawing anger down on himself and those around him as the whale is a mabeast drawn to attack him, but instead of sacrificing himself the save the rest of the caravan other people try to sacrifice themselves for him, and then he is thrown out against his will; but being thrown out actually saves him fro the whale, which vanishes. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gistradagis
Posts: 96 |
|
|||
Yeah, that would be really interesting, if anything. The current Subaru is an insane ass and a scumbag, yes, but there's plenty of reason for his fall into madness. If the writing goes full circle and he manages to go back to who he used to be, without learning some vital lesson, I think I'll be ok with it. And the reason is precisely because of what would make many other people rage: that it would be incredibly realistic for Subaru to just hope to forget all the last arc instead of learning some valuable lesson from it. He wants to forget all this shit, not learn from it and become a "better person". Subaru is a normal guy who's stressed, depressed, and suffers some stages of depression and PTSD. He's not a hero seeking absolution in order to go back to being a glorious paladin of light. We are on episode 17, it's time for people to stop hoping for a happy-go-lucky Disney-style finale. I mean, sure, maybe we do get a happy ending. But I very much doubt it'll be the kind of ending that absolves Subaru of much of what he has done, or that it'll leave that much of a sweet taste in our mouths. And I'm fine with it, because that's the kind of story Re:Zero is, and because I don't need a radical change in the series to content people who would go into a frenzied panic if they don't get a happy ending. |
||||
|
||||
|
HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||
I'm not heavily invested (mentally or emotionally) in the "sin" angle right now, but if we go down that thread, it would make sense from what we had that Subaru cannot talk about what's going on due to his "sin". Betelgeuse ascribed the sin of "pride" to him, which would then make sense that he cannot talk about his abilities or accomplishments, and must instead be "humble". It would be interesting if Betelgeuse is mad in part because the hands won't let him "relax" (ie. be lazy/slothful). Also, I don't think its a matter of Betelgeuse not "letting" anyone see them, it's simply that (as far as he knew) other people CAN'T see them. He doesn't control that in any way, it simply "is". (or was before Subaru) Regarding the whale, I think it's notable that Subaru thought the whale was chasing HIM (and all evidence suggests that was indeed the case) however, once he fell off the cart, the whale did not DO anything (that we know of) to him. I do not think the whale was trying to attack/eat Subaru. I'm not sure what it WAS trying to do, but I don't think it was attacking him. Also, while I don't think the time loops are tied to a set time period, I think it's worth noting that I BELIEVE that Subaru arrived EARLIER on this particular iteration. (note: he arrived BEFORE anyone was killed, as opposed to AFTER on all the previous loops) So even if there is a time limit, I don't think he has passed it. Personal opinion, to me this episode reinforced my opinion that Subaru currently has the power of (or is the vessel of) the witch. |
||||
|
||||
NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2313 |
|
|||
One wonders when he'll learn from all these tragedies, or if he will, heh - and, if not, if he will ever tumble all the way down the darker side of the rabbit hole. For a while now we've been on a non-stop train to psychological breakdown; he hasn't managed to fight through the pain and isolation in order to master his fate very well yet, and even his victories (e.g. versus the forest mabeasts) only seemed to drive him to ever more reckless, PTSD-inducing, emotionally scarring strategies.
I also did not feel very emotionally rocked by this episode, and that seems to have been an extremely common reaction from other people who've replied as well. I disagree somewhat with the 'numbness' explanation, though, which a lot've people have also put forth above. I think the recent narrative arcs as well as the framing and execution of this episode carefully drove us into not caring as much about the deaths of this episode; I'm almost inclined to think of it as intentional. To elaborate, I think many of us felt relative indifference this time around because: A) the suffering of both Emilia and Rem in this episode was very visually subdued and brief (as opposed to the ragdoll Rem or cleaved-in-half Subaru of episodes past). We don't even see Rem die (you might say the narrative forgot about her death  ), and Emilia effectively has a very rapid heart attack. Moreover and maybe more importantly...
B) of the two deaths in this episode, Emilia's was clearly the coup de grâce - the focal point of the episode, and where we would have felt Subaru's or Emilia's pain, were we going to feel it. However, as we've debated extensively here, the past 7 or 8 episodes have led us to question the validity and meaning of Subaru's connection to Emilia, to a clear and substantive deepening of his connection with Rem, and to an emphasis on the emotional distance between Subaru and Emilia. Since Subaru is our point-of-view character, I think that also creates an emotional distance between we the audience and Emilia, which is reinforced by how little characterization she's received of late relative to, well, Rem. Subaru has also been painted in not so pleasant a light in the past 7 or 8 episodes, creating some emotional distance between the audience and him; I don't empathize as much with crazy-eyes, vengeful Subaru as I do with desperate, futile, doomed-hero Subaru. The result of B)'s 3-4 factors (his bond with Emilia not seeming as meaningful as his bond with Rem; emotional distance between he and Emilia; emotional distance between the audience and Emilia; emotional distance between the audience and Subaru) and the visual/temporal brevity remarked on in A) is to make Subaru's pain in the face of Emilia's death feel relatively hollow contrasted with his suffering in prior episodes. Most of us seem to feel this episode's death less acutely and I think these are much stronger reasons for that than us simply becoming numb to Re;Zero's brand of suffering. edit: Side note with an example of the opposite: the only emotional note I did feel very poignantly in this episode was also noted by others - that Ram had forgotten Rem. I completely expected her reaction given the two earlier instances where Otto strongly hinted to us that the Whale affects memory, but it was still a decent gut punch. No surprise that it involved two sets of characters (Rem/Subaru, Rem/Ram) between which the narrative has built a really meaningful connection, rather than the long-undermined substance of the Emilia/Subaru relationship. I think the effectiveness of this forgetting gut-punch is strong evidence of our collective non-immunity to Re;Zero's suffering as well; when it wants it to hit, it still hits hard. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gistradagis
Posts: 96 |
|
|||
I wasn't too sure at first, since it was only mentioned in passing while Beetlejuice doing all his crazy act. But this is the second time, and Subaru having the sin of pride keeps making more and more sense. I also really like the duality of meaning that you had there. Makes a lot of sense especially considering a theory I thought of before, with the "sins" having a power related to them, and a drawback. Subaru is Pride, his power allows him to change bad ends in order to get what he wants, a perfect "run", a good end, and so the drawback of his power is the opposite cardinal virtue, Humility. And Beetlejuice would have a power that does all the stuff for him (Sloth), but as a drawback he can never ever stay put or just "do nothing" (Diligence). |
||||
|
||||
stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
|
|||
I think that post does a great job at explaining how the show accomplished the hollowness that coincides with the death scenes. For me, the best scene of the episode is when Subaru is shedding his skin onto Emilia. The monologue at Emilia that is really about himself. It was heart-breaking. It made sense to me psychologically that he would lay the faults he sees in himself at her door, because, and I've said as much before, Emilia and Subaru aren't all that different in terms of what they value. The difference is that Subaru hasn't ever really believed in putting others before himself, but was more inspired to see the world in that way from interacting with Emilia in the first episode. I might even go so far as to say that is their point of true contention in their relationship this arc. It's funny, but that's kind of why I feel they're good for one another. Subaru started crushing on Emilia mainly because she was more than willing to go out of her way to help someone when it didn't serve to benefit her. And I find that Emilia enjoys interacting with Subaru because he likes to live in the moment and do what he wants whenever he wants with little regard for what the future may hold. It's that sense of selfish desire that she doesn't ever allow herself that attracts her to Subaru. Not that this is a shipping thing, so much as that I get why there is chemistry there. |
||||
|
||||
|
AksaraKishou
Posts: 1411 Location: End of the World |
|
|||
|
Found the article about the next episode on crunchyroll.
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/07/25/a-standard-length-episode-couldnt-contain-all-rezero-18-has-to-offer?utm_source=community&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=rezero |
||||
|
||||
Juno016
 Posts: 2391 |
|
|||
|
Supposedly, episode 18 is the episode that has the staff of the anime has been excited to show to the public since the show started airing. I heard they had begun animating it early just so they could perfect it and they're happy with the results. A Japanese novel-reader that recommended me this series in the first place is extremely excited for this episode as well and promises me it's a huge "turning point" in the series. She's been waiting for me to get to this point for a while. At this point, I'm almost afraid my hype will surpass the actual quality. lol... I have been skeptical about this series for so long and I'm only now finding consistent faith in its writing. It could've done so much wrong and it hasn't. I love it.
I have a lot of things to say about episode 17, but I'm actually a bit lose in thought on it, so I don't think I can say anything yet. |
||||
|
||||
|
Mitrospeed
|
|
|||
I can only second what she's saying. The next episode is probably the most important scene in this arc, or second most important, can't really weigh it. If this episode is done as good as White Fox says then this will actually satisfy me thoroughly. I mean hell they're apparently proud and confident enough about this episode to explicitly advertise it in one of the hotspot train stations. For an episode to get single advertisement is rather rare. Well if you only now find consistent faith in its writing then Tappei ( author ) achieved what he wanted to do. The first two arcs were basically the prologue of the prologue and in the third arc we see bits of Re:Zero true face here and there. It should be arc 3 that completely surprises you because of how different it is from the previous two arcs. Also note that these 3 first arcs only cover about 15% at best ( I'm not even including the extra novels that expand on world building and character backgrounds ) so even what we see now ( Subaru's development ) is only a small part of something very very big. |
||||
Blanchimont
 Posts: 3453 Location: Finland |
|
|||
Heh, I've been rewatching old Married... with Children(sitcom 1987-97) episodes and your post reminds me of when Peggy wins Mr Jupiter for a week and in near exhaustion after half a day doing exercises, the trainer says something to the tune of, 'Warm-up's done. Let's start'... Eagerly waiting for what happens... 
|
||||
|
||||
|
GlassesMan
Posts: 217 |
|
|||
|
I hope episode 18 is everything people are saying it will be. It's clear that next episode we'll see him killed by either Betelguese or Puck, but unless he has a bounceback from his suffering, I think it would actually not be as good writing as if he overcame the pain. Suffering isn't a virtue, it's a technique. It's up to Tappei to use it well or poorly.
|
||||
|
||||
whiskeyii
 Posts: 2247 |
|
|||
Man, it's been ages since I've been involved in anything even remotely Church related, so this story flew right over my head. Didn't even know it had a white whale in it, just a whale. Anyway, I think your analogy pretty much works (if you reverse the "sailor's" reactions) if you replace God with the Jealous Witch. I'm tempted to say it fits in line with the whole Seven Sins angle, but Japan tends to use Christianity as flavor text rather than an actual theme, so it's hard to say whether it's intentional, accidental, or if our White Whale is simply drawing on another source we're not yet aware of. EDIT: I feel dumb for not doing this sooner. Google "Japanese folklore whale", and you get articles about the Bakekujira, a "white" whale, who is white not because of its skin color, but because of its massive white skeleton. |
||||
|
||||
|
jdnation
Posts: 2004 |
|
|||
|
If we're following adventure-game logic, I guess the clue would be as to how these experiences can be tied together.
- The White Whale - The Queen candidates own individual interests and rivalries - Betelgeuse and co. Can Subaru turn one side against the other by finding some motivation for each of them? Can Betelgeuse be lured into the vicinity of the White Whale? Or the whale be led to them? And could any of the other candidates for Queen be lured into aiding Subaru in exchange for aid and quick transportation, say through the same vicinity of the white whale for the trade of iron or whatever mentioned before if Subaru leaks those details to one side and then double crosses them by promising safe passage through an alternate route if he lures the whale away and towards Betelgeuse, providing he knows precisely where to expect him to be? I see Subaru as having the opposite problem than others think. I believe he in fact cares too much about everyone, he's very idealistic and wants a perfect happy end for everyone involved. This is also why he went out of his way for Rem and Ram. And also why both he and Emilia have an attraction for one another. They both put others interests before themselves. It just comes out differently. Emilia knows what she's doing. Subaru often bumbles it. But they see that in each other. Subaru intends to do what's right, but he screws up, and can't communicate that. The lesson he is going to have to learn is that nothing will be ideal in this world and that at some point he is going to have to make choices with consequences. Someone is going to have to be sacrificed, and he's in the position to make that hard choice. He can't have everything. Nobody can. Somebody or something is going to have to be sacrificed for it. That's life. Sometimes we have to live with the least-worst decisions. The gluttony, lust and pride is in thinking he can arrange it all to be perfect, not that he himself necessarily suffers from any of these things. Much the same for the other sins. It's wanting things in excess of what their ought to be beyond their proper ends and uses. Distortions of the virtues. He's going to need to learn to bargain. And to risk in order to gain and arrange his priorities. Accordingly he will have to negotiate what he will keep and what he will sacrifice in order to move the story forward. |
||||
|
||||
Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2521 |
|
|||
|
Just to clarify, whiskeyii is correct that there wasn't a "white whale" in the Book of Jonah but a "great (large) fish", the 70 Hebrew scholars translated the word into Greek as "mega-ketos" and ketos is not a "whale" but actually not a "fish" (icthus) either. Kudos to Showsni who otherwise got the story right and brought out it's interesting parallels.
Thanks AksaraKishou for the link! Down that page is a Puck hug pillow, though a doujinshi product, that should be adopted as official. Seriously, what girl could resist? |
||||
|
||||
|
Gistradagis
Posts: 96 |
|
|||
What human could resist? |
||||
|
||||
.
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group