Forum - View topicAnswerman - Could Patreon Be "Better For The Industry" Than Crunchyroll?
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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The question isn't whether he is nice or not - but whether he is well informed or not. The answer to that question is "mostly not". He's also worked very hard to become a very polarizing person and a lightning rod for debate and controversy, and now reaps the "rewards" for that work. Or, to put it another way, it's quite possible for someone to be "genuinely nice" and to also be not very well regarded. This is in no way "unfair". |
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DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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Certainly any chef worth his salt would admit that everyone on staff is important. But he'd also laugh in your face if you suggested that the line cooks (the animators) were responsible for creating anything. They cook what they're told, when the customer orders it. Maybe in some restaurants they might suggest a dish, but ultimately it's the chef's decisions whether or not that dish goes on the menu. It's the chef that shapes the vision and develops the elements that attract the paying customer. The line cook then executes the grunt work that translates that vision and those elements into food on a plate. Or, to put it another way, nobody but his family and close friends go to a fancy restaurant because Billy is line cooking. Nobody but his family and close friends watches an anime because Sato Someguy did some in-betweens on Ep 5. We go to fancy restaurants because the chef (famous or not) has created something interesting. We watch anime (in part) because a big name was present near the top of the creative chain. And that's the problem with the Marxist theory of production you espouse - it rests on the broken assumption that value is only created by grunt level work. It dismisses the idea that the creative and decision making processes that create and direct that work have any value. In the real world, it's very plain that it's those higher level processes and the people involved in them bring in the viewers. I'm not saying Capitalism doesn't have deep problems, I'm saying that Marxism has them as well. (As to the risk vs. reward issues Marxism also dismisses, that's a discussion for another time.) |
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TheArsonAut
Posts: 29 |
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DVD of a movie from the 1980s. That's what I meant to say. You'd be surprised how many look terrible even on 4k. Especially if they're foreign. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5927 |
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Or or or maybe they didn't want to constantly keep being bombarded by a bunch of petty and entitled adults half of whom still watch illegal subs (some of which they can legally watch on CR) getting mad at them for doing something that really isn't much the issue it's being made out to be. But hey people love their hot takes and feeling like they accomplished something they didn't even do. Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
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Give money to the Animator Dormitory Project. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Crowdfunding can be an excellent way for animation studios to raise money for projects. Little Witch Academia began as a government funded short then it evolved into a crowndfunded movie and finally into a full blown TV show.
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13557 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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What I would like to see but know it might to expensive: A Kickstarter for a 24-epi. ONA anime with the intent of a simuldub, with the surplus meanings each animator takes home an extra $250 in their figurative pockets.
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DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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That would put it in the top ten highest grossing Kickstarter campaigns ever. (Around six million USD using Justin's numbers.) There's no anime franchise in creation popular enough to get that kind of support. |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Anything that popular could probably be funded conventionally. |
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supersqueak
Posts: 194 |
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His response to this article kind of dumbfounded me but I don't know why I was surprised at all by the fact that he admittedly says he doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't really care. How much do you have to donate to his patreon to get him to shave?
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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He groveled because a corporate person was nice to him and he thinks he has something to gain from it. On Twitter he's still saying he was right - so he keeps backpedaling and uh... frontpedaling. Does literally everything CR licenses get 30 thousand dollars per episode? Even old obscure shows like Machiko-sensei? And even if so, doesn't that only confirm Digi's point about how only the big shows get a lot of money? because if most of the time, only the stuff CR KNOW will make a lot of money back gets 200 thousand, meaning stuff that doesn't need extra help, how does watching your favorite shows on CR particularly help them? Edit: wait lmao, in retrospect Justin's wording doesn't even imply CR themselves pay that much; he just gave out some numbers based on his own industry experience:
It's really depressing to see Digibro say "YEAH I WAS WRONG :'C" in the video based on something so minor. He's very likely only doing this so he can become friends with ANN and get more money. |
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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It would be FAR far higher. Using Justin's numbers from the article the episodes alone would cost $6,840,000. That doesn't include the costs of dubbing and it doesn't include the $250 "bonus" either. I don't know how many animators work on the average show, but for the sake of discussion I looked up Madoka Magica TV in the encyclopedia here. There are roughly 240 people credited on "Key animation" alone! That's completely ignoring all sorts of other jobs, like Preview illustrations, planners, photography, In-betweeners, background artists, 2nd key animators, etc, etc. The list is EASILY 400 people with those others included. And we're still ignoring producers, directors (there are 27 "Animation Directors" alone!), voice actors/actresses, storyboard people, the music composers, sound effects people, or any of the major roles like the series director, scriptwriter, etc. Pegging the number at 400 is extremely conservative. 400 x 250 = $100,000. So we're pretty dang close to 7 million once we factor in the bonuses. Of course any sort of crowdfunding service is going to take a slice of the pie, so to end up with 7 mil after all is said and done people would need to pitch in a lot more. And oh yeah: Madoka Magica TV is only a 12 episode series. Double those bonus numbers for one of 24 episode length.... Does a person who animated work for multiple episodes get paid his bonus just once? Or does he get that bonus for each episode that he worked on? If the latter, our numbers go up yet again. I only counted each person once, not once for each episode they did. The numbers aren't even close to working for a series of that kind of length. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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Justin Sevakis' claim that Crunchyroll gave AT LEAST 30 thousand dollars for every episode of everything they licensed is IMPOSSIBLE. Since their inception (nearly a decade ago) they only gave 100 million and they have over 900 anime.
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I think you misunderstood was Justin is talking about. The $30,000+ figure is not what they paid to license old shows. It's what they pay to get the license for NEW shows, before those shows are even made. Justin is talking about 'advance payments for rights'. Advance payments are made before a show is even produced. That makes them a bit of a gamble. If the show does great the CR got a hell of a deal. If the show is unpopular then they overpaid. Remember the whole point of the article is to discuss funding of new productions specifically. None of it is talking about licensing extant shows. Licensing older shows is a different thing entirely, and depends on how the show has performed. If it's already out there are viewership numbers available, sales data, etc. A popular show is expensive to license, a somewhat obscure older show would cost very little. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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Maybe that's the case with the shows CR co-produced but that's not even VAGUELY close to being most shows. He also said "any other overseas distributor"; Justin works for Discotek, who only license existing shows after they're made. And how can we know the amount of money they give per episode from Justin who doesn't even work with CR? If it's big, why don't a lot of the shows listed here http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2017/12/30/crunchyrolls-2017-co-productions even list Crunchyroll in the credits? I brought this up to Miles in the middle of a conversation and he suddenly stopped replying. |
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