Forum - View topicWas the massive hatred towards 4kids justified?
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mgree0032
Posts: 227 |
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4kids was universally one of the most hate companies in the world back in the 90s and 2000s. Audience and fans hate this company so much to the point that they want to erase it from their memories. Their worst offenses were their one piece dub with lots of censorship, bad voice acting, and changed music and Turtles Forever. The attitude of the executives at 4kids towards the audience rubbed the salt in the wound even further to the point in which the audiences at all ages said that they have had enough with 4kids. With that was the people’s massive hatred towards 4kids really justified?
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getchman
 Space CowboyPosts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
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you've very clearly just answered you own question
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mgree0032
Posts: 227 |
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That’s the summary. I want to find out was the hate towards 4kids was justified.
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InfiniteJest
 Posts: 136 |
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Sounds like it was.
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TheFanCon
Posts: 48 |
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Aside from One Piece being something Toei forced on them with ridiculous mandates, absolutely (with regards to localization).
Remember that they were fundamentally following the same kind of ideology behind the people infamous for changing "Philosopher's Stone" to "Sorcerer's Stone" when it came to importing foreign media. |
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mgree0032
Posts: 227 |
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I believe that 4kids knew that one piece was a hit and they bought it without looking at the show’s content.
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louis6578
 Posts: 1862 |
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"Was it justified" is a strange question. A lot of us probably exaggerated our hatred for the fun of shock humor, but in the end it was an awful company that diminished the art of foreign creators just to get them on American television. They're a huge part of why people like Miyazaki became protective of how their IP were handled overseas and from what little we heard about the guy, the man in charge of 4kids wasn't a big fan of animation in general.
The only thing they really had any talent at dubbing was Pokémon, and I'm not sure how much of that was even them. |
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Snomaster1
Subscriber Posts: 2798 |
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I've never really had a problem with 4Kids. For all it's faults,it had two things going for them. They had talented voice actors and they had really good English themes. Since I explained about their English themes in a previous post,let me explain why I think that their voice actors were very good. They gave their all in their dubs and made whatever they were doing an interesting and fun watch. While not all their anime dubs were successful,their voice actors more than made up for it.
People like Dan Green,Veronica Taylor,and others like them proved their talents in the dubs in "Pokemon" and "Yu-Gi-Oh!" as well as other shows. While I've heard complaints about them that the anime they did were heavily edited,that was pretty much the case for a lot of it at the time. A good many of these shows were being done for broadcast television here in America. That was one reason. The other reason for this editing was they didn't think that American kids would be able to understand a lot of the subject matter because a good deal of it was foreign. They tried to make it easier for Americans,especially American kids to understand. It came from a belief that they might be confused about what they were seeing and also they wanted to make sure it was that a lot of it was also done for broadcast here,as I've previously stated. I've never had a big problem with that. Could they have done better with their programs? Possibly,but I'm not going to be too angry with them. I'm probably among those who have little problem with them and they should have been around a little longer. |
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mgree0032
Posts: 227 |
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Weinstein tried to do that to Princess Mononoke film, but after what New World pictures did to Nausicaä, Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli said, “Hell no, this is not going to happen to Princess Mononoke.” |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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Funimation and Saban were not much different than 4kids, and yet people were okay with them. I felt like what Funimation did with DBZ was no different what 4kids did. They censor the violence, rewritten bad dialogue, changed the soundtrack, changed names to characters and special moves, and just changed the overall feel of the show. It was never a martial arts fantasy show like it was in Japan. Feeling more like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, and Fox Kids X-Men than a wuxia series with some sci-fi elements.
Not to mention, most of 4kids shows were never that great. Pokemon is okay, One Piece is meh, and the Yu-Gi-Oh anime sucks compare to the manga. Unlike Harmony Gold, who actually butcher good anime like Macross and Captain Harlock. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1862 |
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Just bolded the part that's a personal opinion which many would disagree with and doesn't progress the discussion meaningfully. This is coming from a fan of Macross and Harlock by the way. Back on topic, the big difference is timing. In the 90s, this was the only real way to watch these shows, but when fan subs took off in the 2000s, people were finding ways to watch these edited shows in Japanese. Basically, most of us today would agree that Saban is pretty much just as bad as 4kids, though perhaps you could give them some wiggle room for only sticking to a certain type of show that was made for young viewers anyway. Honestly, if 4Kids stuck to kids shows (Pokémon, Yugioh, Kirby, Sonic X) and never dubbed a popular Shonen Jump title, they probably wouldn't have been nearly as disliked, though I'm sure plenty of people would still prefer to have uncut dubs of those shows. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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Fans subs existed in the 90s too. DBZ fan sub tapes were almost everywhere and it wasn't that hard to find them. People made websites talking about how DBZ was edited and ruined by Funimation in the mid-late 90s. I don't see what makes 4kids dub of OP any different from DBZ's dub back in the day. They had suffer from similar criticism. |
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TheFanCon
Posts: 48 |
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Places like DBZ Uncensored, Daizex, etc. There was an underground anime import scene in the US where people actually knew real deal anime. Out of that came Streamline Pictures, made by Carl Macek and Fred Patten, that specialized in delivering anime (but with the caveat of dub only), who among other things were responsible for bringing the likes of Akira over officially (which was the only exception to their dub-only rule).
If DB/Z never ended up on cable TV and was instead released direct-to-video, people would have still have ended up finding it later on, perhaps just not as children though. For some reason, it's the Dragon Ball IP in itself that has carried what would otherwise actually have been a guilty pleasure as well as an amateur studio (that only got that license via nepotism) hard and far, I guess that's just how powerful it was in its heyday (and even after it had already ended in its home country). |
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mgree0032
Posts: 227 |
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But at the same time, you have to deal with the moral guardians that complain about the show for ridiculous reasons back in the 90s. |
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TheFanCon
Posts: 48 |
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True, although this clearly wasn't the case for direct-to-video releases.
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