Forum - View topicRurouni Kenshin (TV 1996 + movie + OAVs).
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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compare and contrast? be my guest, that's what this is about! The thing I love about Kenshin's personality is that with most "haunted past" characters they are still in the spotlight, pursuing that past in some violent way. Kenshin does not want to be a hero in any way. Though he has sworn to protect people and seems to fit the description of hero, he does not quite fit into the archetype. He wants most to be at peace. The one disappointment for me was that at the end of the series (at least the OVAs) he does not find peace but instead spoiler[abandons his wife and son and returns only to die with Kaoru] I have actually heard some of Kenshin's voice in Japanese and truly disliked it. I could probably acclimate if I needed to. Another favorite character for me, probably besides Kenshin is Sano. He is incredibly cool, although it was a letdown that after fighting his monk master at Kyoto his Futi No Ke Wame didn't make much of an appearance. His hand was broken (?) |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11300 Location: Frisco, TX |
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When I first saw Kenshin, it was on DVD and I tried the first volume dubbed. Nothing really wowed me at that point, but around that time I was becoming more of a sub person by then anyway.
I was also a lot more familiar with English VAs and recognized a few of the voices from Bang Zoom! as I had recently been watching Trigun, Outlaw Star, and Cowboy Bebop beforehand; Richard Hayworth, Dorothy Melendrez, Wendee Lee, etc. However, I was very much surprised by the Japanese cast as it felt a lot more energetic and more in context to the Japanese culture itself. In contrast to the 3 aformentioned titles I listed above, I had much lower expectations as the none of those had any real Japanese cultural subtlties. In Kenshin, however, you've got all sorts of Japanese names, honorifics, terminology, and the like, which seems to be my only real pet peeve when it comes to dubbing. Needless to say, the voices grew on me quick and I became a very big fan of Yuuji Ueda (this being the first role I ever heard him in as Sano) and he is one of my favorite seiyuu to this date. Mayo Suzukaze as Kenshin wasn't too surprising to me. I've heard a few other female seiyuu play male characters prior to this series, particularly through Yuuka Imai as Otaru in Saber Marionette J and Jinto in Crest/Banner of the Stars. The fact that some people treat me like an idiot when I say I felt her performance was impeccable and that they prefer Hayworth just because they think Kenshin should sound like a feminine man as opposed to a masculine woman is insulting. Granted, it's a lot more difficult to adapt into English because of the differences in American and Japanese anatomy, and thus different ranges and tones of voices, but seems a bit sexist when people aren't even willing to give credit where it's due. And as I progressed through the series, I grew more and more enthralled with the Japanese cast while becoming more vehemently nitpicky about the dub. With Kenshin being my all-time favorite anime, of course I'll have pretty high expecations to meet. And yes, I consider the dub to soringly not meet them at all, aside from a few good efforts, but nonetheless a failure in my ears. I'm not going to get started on my nitpicks as that would take too long right now. But I guarantee anyone willing to give this a chance in Japanese without the sexist and conceited notion that Kenshin should be played by a man will ultimately end up enjoying the series a lot more. And it's not just him, I can account and analyze all of the supporting characters as well, but I'll save that for later if need be... |
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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the sexist thing doesn't bother me. I just found her voice irritating. Sano's english voice actor was great, though.
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Stellarleen
 Posts: 75 Location: Tokyo |
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I definately agree with you Tony K., the Japanese cast is just great. The more I listen to it the better it sounds; very energetic indeed. I still have alot of characters yet to hear the second time around, but so far I love Sano's, Kaouru's, and Yahiko's voices in Japanese. Now that I am used to Kenshin's feminine voice I can definately appreciate the performance. I enjoy her rendition of "Oro" too, very cute. I'll have to go back and watch some of the dubbing and compare!
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11300 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Meh. Lex Lang is near the bottom of my list when it comes to English VAs in general. In terms of Sano, he sounded way too old and almost monotone at times. His lack of energy and lethargic delivery had to be my least favorite role in the dub. I'll admit, though, he did a pretty decent job dubbing the first ED song. But at least Yuuji Ueda has that kind of raspiness and growl to his voice, like the young, rough n' tough go-getter that Sano should be. I feel Scott McNeil would've been a dead-on Sano. Concerning your comments on Kenshin at the end and Sano's Futae no Kiwami. In Jinchuu spoiler[ Kenshin never left anyone. He stayed with everyone at Kamiya Doujou throughout his battle with Enishi and company. There was one point where he banished himself into a village for forgotten souls because he thought he allowed Kaoru to be murdered by Enishi, but he pulls himself out of it eventually with a resolute decision and comes to accept a few things.] As for Sano spoiler[ he actually uses both the Zanbattou and Futae no Kiwami] during Jinchuu. You also see Saitou and Aoshi again as well. spoiler[ They each kill off one of Enishi's goons.] |
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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it's funny that you feel that way about sano, because a.) I like lex lang, and b.) i like the bipolar sano. He's either this really cool, laid-back, my-voice-is-monotone-because-I-don't-give-a-damn character, or he's extremely passionate and headstrong. The whole growling thing doesn't do it for me. I've said it before, but it KILLS me that they never animated Jinchu, especially because I hate reading manga and therefore never finished the real series. Maybe it just kills me because a story needs a true ending, and R.K. did not receive its true ending. It saddens me. |
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sizzlin_chiken
 Posts: 69 Location: MN |
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Wow, it's really been a while since I've heard about Rurouni Kenshin but this is a definite classic and favorite of anyone who's into action type shows. A great blend of history(sorta), romance(sorta), and action. This was the very first anime that I bought. I've always liked it. The storyline just really draws you in on how they give you hints of his past and who he is but they never really tell you. It just makes you want to know more and find out more. I actually saw Samurai X before this so it really gave me a good impression. Loved it though.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11300 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Bipolar? That's a terrible word to describe Sano. "Laid-back" is not a quality of that disorder. You're either very upbeat and cheery or a manic depresive on the verge of suicidal tendencies when being bipolar. But since you brought the word up, yes, Lex Lang plays a great "bipolar Sano."  Actually, I wouldn't even call him bipolar because I never felt any "high" moments to begin with. Even the scene where spoiler[ he stood up to Shishio and gave him a hand-breaking Futae no Kiwami was ridiculously lame.] The only reaction it illicited from me was a chuckling scoff and the need to reach over for the audio switch button.
But seriously, I don't understand why you won't at least read Jinchuu, or any manga for that matter. It's only 10 volumes (18-28, basically). I'll admit I'm more of an anime guy, but I like reading manga if it continues a story or tells it better (i.e Berserk, GTO, Hellsing, or Yakitate!! Japan). And even better, if you've already seen said anime, it makes it even easier to act out the panels in your head with voices and such. I use a mix of Ocean and Bang Zoom! voices in a lot of the manga I read, and it's really fun, especially as it was for Kenshin. That way you can never complain about dubbing  .
Glad to hear you like it  . The script and acting are especially convincing during Kyoto. Hiko Seijurou is masterfully played by Shuuichi Ikeda, (he retains a lot of that cool and noble, yet cocky attitude from Char, if you're a Gundam fan  ).
There's a great chemistry between master and apprentice during spoiler[ final training for the Amakakeru Ryuu no Hirameki] as well. The most noteworthy scene was when spoiler[ Hiko was revealing that to use the final attack, he (Kenshin) had to realize that the power and will to live was the strongest force for a person to fight with. And hence, permanently locking away the hitokiri in himself while at the same time finally realizing his true desire and fulfillment of happiness to replace what he lost in Tomoe.] By the way, I have been nagging my friend ever since I saw this, but spoiler[ I believe it's all Houji's fault that Shishio lost. He haphazardly underestimated the group at Aoiya and literally sent the remaining Juppongatana to their capture, then threw his freakin' rifle away and encouraged Shishio to "surpass his limits," and thus forcing him to blow up.] Not that any of that matters in the long run, but it's just a theory of mine. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I personally enjoyed Kenshin to the highest degree. It was one of the first anime I watched and I bought EVERY SINGLE volume on vhs. Beat that Tony!!!!
Instead of going on and on about the good points of the series, Tony has pretty much done that and more eloquently then I could anyway, I wanna point out the one huge flaw I have with it. I must tone deaf, or at least oblivious to bad dubs, because I don't often find a dub/sub that bad. There are exceptions, ut usually I guess I'm so entrenched in the story I don't notice the voices as much. Perhaps because I was such a huge book reader as a child the voices come off as secondary to me. The only thing that truly matters to me in terms of if I like or will buy a series is the story. The dub/sub, animation, and directing can suck donkey balls, but if the story is just that good I'll buy it. Kenshin's is most definetly that good. However, I was disheartened by the kid gloves they gave the show in comparison to the Samurai X ova's. I think blood, gore,sex and all the darker emotions can be very instrumental in carrying a story along. The gore found in the ova's I found fitting considering the time period this takes place in. It's a bloody, gore filled era. I just think that the tv run of Kenshin had the kid gloves wrapped around it too tightly. I'm not saying let's start hacking limbs left and right, but a little more violence would have been nice. Sure there were fights but to me many of them didn't come off as that "violent," if that makes any sense at all. On a side note, am I the only one that liked J. Shannon Weaver? |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11300 Location: Frisco, TX |
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The problem with Tsuioku-hen (the first OAV) is that production was taken over by Studio DEEN. Studio Gallop actually did a lot of justice for how Watsuki originally depcited the series in manga form. But for whatever reason, they decided to really unsanitize and bloody up the Tsuioku-hen flashback. I once heard a theory on this very forum saying it was an attempt at showing studio superiority. Because Studio Gallop made the infamous Season 3 that eventually led to such low ratings, and thus cancellation of the TV series altogether, Studio DEEN did their best to differentiate the presentation in order to not be lumped with those "losers." They altered a little bit of Watsuki's original character designs, made the violence much more gory (which was a lot less graphic in the manga), and also hired the likes of Taku Iwasaki to make a really epic, though I'll admit, an almost depressing and melancholy score at times (still my 2nd favorite soundtrack only to Blood+, though). But like you said and how most other people (myself included) agree, it seems to fit the dark and violent nature of Bakumatsu more so than what Studio Gallop was doing during the Meiji era (not the third season, but the series as a whole). From the point of continuity, this is why I highly emphasize and recommend that all people watching Kenshin for the first time do the TV series through episode 62 (the end of Kyoto) and then Tsuioku-hen. That way, the transition from a lighter to darker atmosphere provides more shock value for the viewer, and thus a higher appreciation for the aesthetics of the overall work. And if possible, just read Jinchuu from there on out and don't bother with Seisou-hen at all. If you go in reverse and start with Tsuioku-hen first, then the series, you run the risk of being dissappointed because the level of production and "cheerier" presentation aren't as appealing. Not to mention you lose the all the mystery and surprise that made Kenshin so intersting and complex in the first place.
Yes  .
Yet another reason I recommend the series subbed: voice continuity. Granted, Kenshin, Hiko Seijurou, and Saitou are the only voices retained from the TV series to OAV, but then you also eliminate "getting used" to the voices from each company. |
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Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
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Technically I imagine it would be pretty shocking to go from Trust&Betrayal to the TV series, seeing as practically the first scene in the show has Kenshin getting all eye-poppy. So when you get down to it the transition is shocking going either way. But yeah, Kyoto and Tokyo arcs first, then the OVAs.
I still like the dub voices, more for the sound of them than their acting per se. I think Hayworth was fantastic in all regards, but I do admit that, after watching more subbed anime (including subbed RuroKen) and re-watching it in English, there are some lines that the VAs really botch, in terms of over-emphasis or improper emphasis. Anyway, getting back to the show, I agree with the comments on fantastic animation and music that have already been made. I love Kenshin vs. Saito too, but let's not forget that Kenshin vs. Shishio looked great too. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, the direction of this show, the timing of the cuts, in conjunction with the music, is really the standout feature. The direction starts off "clunky", to use SalarymanJoe's term, and gradually gets pretty good by the end of the Tokyo arc, then makes an upward jump when Kyoto arc begins, with the climax of the direction coming with Kenshin vs. Sojiro and then Shishio. The climax of the climax comes when Shishio has seemingly blocked Kenshin's ultimate attack, starts to use his own ultimate attack -- and then you guys know what happens. Seeing that part, animated in slow-motion, interspersed with cuts of Hiko confidently explaining why the Hirameki is unbeatable -- that's better than sex, to reference another thread on the board. One of these days I will rent Season 3 and finally be able to develop my own opinion on it. @ Tony K.: Yeah, Hoji pretty much gets Shishio killed. I actually am simultaneously thrilled and disappointed and impressed every time I see Hoji reveal that he actually is a physical threat, not just a guy who stands around and talks, and then in the very next moment tosses his rifle. I'm thrilled that he's probably about to reveal himself to be an expert marksman (and if Kanryu with that Gatling gun was such a threat, Hoji might have been the end for Kenshin), horribly disappointed that we'll never find out, and then impressed that Watsuki bucked the typical shonen expectation, that if a character has an ability or weapon he'll always get around to using it. Watsuki purposely fails to show us what Hoji is capable of in order to make a point about his character (his nearly insane trust in Shishio), which I totally respect. |
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TestamentSaki
 Posts: 1012 |
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Rurouni Kenshin has been consistently among my "Not still a close fave but is excellent" list. The story, the characters, the music... I found that everything was quite good, even though I watched it with the Colombian dub, whic isn't that bad, but they do have some pronounciation mistakes... Good God.
Haven't heard the English dub (probably won't either), but I have the movie in VHS, and I always laugh out loudly at the first part where Kenshin bumps into a foreigner... Oro uwaaaa.... Suman de gozaru!... BOI te? I know it by heart .
And if there's a series with very carefully chosen OPs and EDs, it's gotta be this one. It's thanks to this series I got into listening to Siam Shade .
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JediJaina
 Posts: 28 |
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Kenshin is at the top for me as far as anime. After reading the manga, I found myself preferring it to the anime. I would have liked to see how it went if they hadn't changed a few things. For example, they were nearly dead-on with the Kyoto arc, two scenes from the manga were still altered.
As for dubs/subs, I prefer dub for the anime and subbed for the OVAs/movie. For me personally, Mayo's Kenshin voice was better suited for the darker OVAs (although I probably won't watch the second one again anytime soon  ). Even so, I love Richard Hayworth's voice as Kenshin. It's not really a matter of masculine/feminine. It's more personal preference of the character for me.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11300 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Iritscen, good point about Houji's character. I never thought that Watsuki did that on purpose in trying to disprove that notion. On another note, though, something else I've come to observe is that Shishio is probably the strongest villain I've seen in anime.
Of course it's only speculation spoiler[ to think he would've beaten Kenshin and everyone else had he not blown up]. But I think this goes to only prove further how much of Houji's fault it is considering spoiler[ the purpose of the Juppongatana was to help do the dirty work in place of Shishio's "handicapped" body in the first place. Technically, no one ever beat him (Shishio), even the full-staged Amakakeru Ryuu no Hirameki with vacuum, double-strike, and all. He just took a lickin' and kept on tickin', till he burst into flames anyway...] Come to think of it, I can't think of any other fighting shounen series where the main villain actually loses the battle, while not directly being defeated by the protagonist, or anyone else (though I guess spoiler[ being indirectly killed by your own henchman] is also another unique element to resolve of this arc). As for the production, I had personally never heard of Studio Gallop prior to watching Kenshin. And to this day, I still haven't seen anything all that great from them. However, from what I saw in the differences between Tokyo and beyond, I think the popularity eventually led to more funding, and thus better production values starting from Kyoto even through the filler season. I saw a lot of cut corners in Tokyo through art, animation, music, and writing, but I think it was to save budget for Kyoto, which is a dang-near perfect rendition, if I say so myself. And yes, as much guff as Season 3 gets, it actually did have some pretty good production values in those departments, aside from the writing. But hey, the anime is good enough, I think it can carry over very well into your imagination for anyone doing continuation through the manga  .
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Kyuriko
Posts: 152 |
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I enjoy the series in both Japanese as well as English; the only thing I can say that I like a little more about Hayworth's performance is the clear distinction between the "Battousai" and the "Rurouni", but perhaps I'm not far enough in my Japanese studies to be able to notice the difference in Suzukaze's performance. I am also used to hearing great performances of male characters by female seiyuu, so the only thing that probably made me dislike Suzukaze as Kenshin in the beginning was probably that I was used to his English voice; it was the first version I saw. But now, it's beginning to grow on me a little more as I re-watch this series in Japanese because I've already seen most of it in English. But I think my favorite voices from the series in Japanese and the English would have to be both Suzuoki Hirotaka and Sparky Thornton's performances as Saitou Hajime.
Now that I have finally finished the manga, I have to say that I am also disappointed at hearing about how Jinchuu was not animated and even moreso as I come across various episodes from the final arc. I don't feel that Seisouhen did justice to the ending either and it didn't feel like Kenshin came to his revelation about his nature and his past as he did in the manga. Rather than risk ruining my image of the series with the beautiful ending of the manga, I've decided that I probably won't watch the entire final arc. In fact, one of the reasons I picked up the manga when it was released in English was because I heard the final arc was so bad compared to the manga and resolved that I would see how the manga ended instead. And Tony K. mentioned Taku Iwasaki. How could I forget his name? It's the Tsukiokuhen soundtrack that's made him another one of my most favorite anime composers. I also found the soundtrack to be depressing but very emotional. I wonder if anybody else has also become interested in Japanese history because of this series? The Bakumatsu Era has by far become my most favorite period to study, particularly the Shinsengumi since the story is told from the (fictional, of course) point of view of the Ishin Shishi and I was curious about their side of the revolution. |
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