Forum - View topicANNCast - Viewers Like You: I Think Therefore I Rant
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Just thought I'd share that since it's pretty much exactly what you describe. That being said, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GLAD Zac tackled this issue! I watched all of No.6 during its run and the comments bugged the hell out of me. Comments like 'If they kiss, I'm dropping this show' or, 'Nice ending, but I could have done without the yaoi bits' just pissed me off excessively. I just wanted to yell at all of them "THIS IS THE TAMEST SHIT EVER! IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THIS, YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YAOI; JUST HOMOSEXUALITY!" Once again, Zac, thank you. I found this really refreshing. |
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Tsukasa-hime
Posts: 2 |
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Okay, quick rant here :'D I wanted to know the podcasters' view on the homosexual relationships in anime and manga, so I listened to that segment and frankly... I was offended.
Yes, I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't want to start a hate war here, but at the point where he said
I got a little... miffed. Well, I have a problem with yaoi. :/ I am not full of hate, nor do I consider myself emotionally immature. I have issues with it because it's against my beliefs. I am not going to walk up to the first gay person I see and tell him he's a terrible person, because that's not right. I believe that, as a Christian (no hate here please!) we're called to love everybody, and preaching hatefully to homosexual people is NOT what we're supposed to do. But I also don't watch yaoi for entertainment. I don't like it. Does that make me full of hate? I don't think so. Does it make me emotionally immature? I certainly hope not! And I think that the podcasters should have considered other opinions rather than bashing people who have issues with homosexual relationships in their anime or manga. Again, this is just my two cents, and I don't have the slightest intention of offending anybody! I'm happy to explain any of this further if needed. The fact was that I was offended by some of the things mentioned in the podcast, and I wanted to share my opinion. |
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DDBen
Posts: 4 |
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You know in your opening segment I have to say you need to take the time to stop and listen to yourself.
If your attempting to make any kind of intelligent argument about your point of view. Stopping to make a comment like anyone against this are "A bunch of uneducated hicks or republicans". You at that point become the guy that your complaining about who just runs in and is against it because he can be. Your showing your own prejudice and uneducated opinion on the matter and it is in no way a positive discussion. In fact this was not a discussion in anyway but simply political preaching on your part and to dedicate around 20 minutes to this seems completely inappropriate. So do me a favor stop listen to what was said in this segment and take a moment to think about who really needs to grow up here. I'm pretty sure its not just those who may be on the other side of the topic as you seem to claim. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I'm sorry, I appreciate that you're trying to avoid being overtly hateful about your beliefs. However, the bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and you are wrong for thinking there is. It's not an issue of "considering other opinions". Claiming that something is part of your "beliefs" does not make it automatically a valid stance that everyone else is required to accept. |
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sailorsarah
Posts: 189 Location: Texas |
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Man can I relate to the third segment, except for the hater part because I don't really get into discussions about anime very much. My tastes in anime just seem to get more and more limited as time goes on. I ended up selling a lot of my anime because I realized I didn't even like most of it. I know I don't have total burnout though because I still find things I love every now and then, like Madoka Magica and Natsume's Book of Friends. I'm sure a lot of it just has to do with growing up and all that. I don't have as much time or money or patience for mediocre entertainment since having kids. Sometimes I'm hopeful that when my kids get older, we can rediscover good anime together though.
Thanks so much for another great podcast! I've gotten to where I really look forward to Fridays just to hear one. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Nobody said you had to enjoy homosexual relationships in anime and manga in order to not be considered a bigot, but "having a problem with it" and then speaking out about how you have a problem with it, in my view just puts you in with everyone else who's intolerant of same-sex relationships, whatever the reason. You cite religion as your personal reason for taking issue with it, but all that says to me is that you're doing what a lot of people do which is take that one little part of the Bible that mentions it as a sin and then conveniently ignore everything else Leviticus tells you not to do in that particular section. If you are, however, also "bothered by" or are otherwise against certain haircuts, tattoos, working at all on Sundays, wearing cotton/poly blends, fortune telling and eating shellfish, then I kinda admire your dedication. Otherwise I find your reason for being offended silly. Sorry. The onus is not on me to be tolerant of your intolerance nor consider your feelings when talking about this issue. To me, you're on the wrong side of it, period.
The old "if you're not tolerant of my intolerance, you're the one who's really intolerant!" thing. Your argument doesn't make any sense, by the way. I don't become intolerant just because I list the people who are likely to be intolerant on this issue. The "Republicans" thing was kind of a joke, I guess, but they are largely the demographic that has the biggest and most outspoken problem with same-sex relationships in this country and the biggest roadblock toward passing civil rights legislation. That isn't political preaching, it's basic observable fact. The rest of the conversation had nothing to do with politics at all. There are zero legitimate caveats to this discussion, in my view. There is no legitimate "other side" to the argument that doesn't involve intolerance and bigotry. If you have some moral or ethical objection to same-sex romance in a book, you're a bigot. It is absolutely no different than if you "just had a problem with" mixed-race relationships in a book. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Tsukasa-hime, while it is admirable that you're trying to "hate the sin and love the sinner", consider: why is homosexuality immoral? I, too, am a Christian, and as I've grown up, I've realized that simply obeying what I'm told is moral or immoral without questioning the motivation behind that is narrow-minded and makes intolerance more likely. Does your explanation of why homosexuality is wrong run any deeper than: because the Bible says so?
No one will think your a bad person for not watching yaoi if you don't like it, but if in the back of your mind you're thinking "this is inherently wrong" whenever the topic is mentioned, that is a little hateful. |
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DDBen
Posts: 4 |
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That is your opinion on the topic and its fine to have a opinion. However, that was only one of many names you called someone with a different opinion. Name calling regardless of your opinion does not in any way make your opinion more valid or help with your argument. Instead it quickly distracts from what your trying to say and makes you sound like everything your accusing others of being on the matter. I get what your opinion is ,I'm not even saying you shouldn't state your opinion, but if you want someone to take you seriously then learn to state it without using names and trying to put down others its not like doing so makes what your trying to say any more or less valid. |
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Penguin_Factory
Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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I have an anecdote relevant to the first segment, specifically where you talked about homosexuality in kids shows.
I post on a number of other forums where politics and the like get brought up a lot, and one issue I've seen crop up several times is the question "should homosexuality be featured in children's TV shows?" The response this gets is very telling. Every single time the majority of posters- nearly all of them liberal, supposedly egalitarian people who consider themselves allies of gay rights- reply that no, homosexuality should never be in any kid's entertainment. Why? Because "you can't have sex in a children's show". Some of them are shocked- shocked- at the idea that anyone would want to put depictions of sex in a cartoon aimed at five year olds. I don't doubt that plain old bigotry is a factor, but the main attitude keeping homosexuality away from media aimed at young people seems to be the bizarre notion that homosexuality = two adults of the same gender having sex. Not two people of the same gender in love, or married to each other, or a child having a crush on someone of the same gender, just two adults having sex. I've typed my fingers to the bone trying to point out to these people why their position makes no sense, but they never seem to get it. On a similar topic, and since Wandering Son was brought up (everyone go buy it!) there was a movie in the 90's called My Life In Pink about a young boy who dresses as a girl. The film was given an R rating in America despite apparently not having any material that would normally warrant anything more than a PG rating.
You say you're not full of hate or emotionally immature. So prove it to us. Explain why you have a problem with homosexuality ("it's against my beliefs" isn't a reason) and we'll see where you're coming from.
If someone said that they wouldn't watch any TV show or movie with Christian characters in it, would you consider that a form of hate? [/i] |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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The people who "have a different opinion" on this issue are literally preventing basic civil rights legislation and forcing through bills that strip American citizens of their rights. The "names" I used for these people in the podcast were remarkably civil considering what I want to call them. You fight intolerance. You don't respect it. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Speaking as someone who was raised to think homosexuality was wrong my entire life, (an opinion I don't hold anymore, but my family still does,) I can vouch for Tsukasa-hime on one level here. No, thinking homosexuality is wrong does not automatically make you a bigot or hateful. I mention this because in your case, Tsukasa, I don't get that, and I don't want you to feel attacked, because that's not going to help the way you see the issue. Now: it's ignorant, yes, and depending on how you treat people and to what degree you are respectful to their rights, it can be apathetic and inconsiderate. *Extremely* so. I'm going to wager a guess based off the tone and content of your post that you are pretty young and base a lot of your opinion on what you've been taught and not personal experience with talking to and learning about homosexuality in the world outside of that, if you've spoken to any gay individuals on the subject at all. I'm not trying to make a judgment call on you there, but I feel like I recognize it when I see it. That was me for a large portion of my life. Honestly, a lot of carrying that opinion has to do with not being exposed to the truth of how people of same-sex orientation actually live or think and how that applies to your beliefs apart from "that one verse in Leviticus." I suggest rather than internalizing how you feel about the issue to the point that it could become a mistaken victimhood (a demand for tolerance of intolerance, as Zac puts it,) really think about why you believe the way you do, and keep foremost in your mind that it should *never* affect other people's right to live differently: That attitude's also completely scriptural, if that's your basis. You have your own issues to work with, but for my part at least, I know labeling you as a bigot or even a *little* hateful is probably untrue and won't get you to look at things any differently. You have time to come to terms with your religion and how it affects that issue, and it sounds to me like you don't want to hate on anybody, but keep in mind that for gay individuals, this is not "something they do" that you disagree with: it is one of, if not the, most intimate essentialities of who they are that you're condemning, so it's going to be seen as hateful. Under the law, they also *should* have the right to that lifestyle, no matter who disagrees with it. Just keep that in mind, and don't ever assume victimhood over your beliefs, particularly that one, or you could become one of those very paranoid bigots some day. I certainly don't get that vibe from you.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. X_X Tsukasa is absolutely going to have to answer for her beliefs and her reasons for them at some point in life, but not on an internet forum in front of more experienced people waiting to lay into her. (Him? Pretty sure the poster is a girl here. ^^; ) If she wants to have a dialogue about this sort of thing, fine, she did bring up the topic, but provoking the ignorant in a hateful way, even if it's in the interest of defending something worth defending, is unkind and won't change any opinions for the better, so I'd like to suggest dropping the attacks from either side. Last edited by JacobC on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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You don't fight intolerance unless your own way of life is in danger. If you're a liberal, that is the principle. Intolerance has nothing to do with someone's opinions being wrong. If you disagree with people who are against homosexuality, you don't call them intolerant or bigots, you state what is wrong with their views. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I do. My way of life isn't in danger - I'm not homosexual - but I do volunteer and donate and do what I can to help their cause, specifically as it pertains to legislation.
Uh, what? So being a liberal means you only fight for causes that personally impact your life? What are you talking about? None of this makes any sense.
I'll keep calling it like I see it, thanks. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Uh...hell no. That's a fantastically selfish attitude. You fight intolerance always because it's [expletive] wrong. It doesn't matter if you personally are in danger. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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@Zac and Ikillchicken
My apologies, I formulated that wrong. I did not mean just your own individual lifestyle, but your beliefs as well. Being a liberal means that you tolerate other opinions and defend the liberties with arguments and not with attitude (which resolves nothing) or power, unless the situation requires that.
That is fine. You'll however find that people (that don't already agree with you) are not willing to listen to you.
You would be fighting attitude with exactly the same attitude and not the problem itself. |
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